Bit of an over-reaction. As already said - if people find their PvE credits/rep per hour dropping then maybe NPC bounties could be buffed. That doesn't mean aligning bounties to super-powers is a bad idea though, not by a long way.
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- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
- Start date
Bit of an over-reaction. As already said - if people find their PvE credits/rep per hour dropping then maybe NPC bounties could be buffed. That doesn't mean aligning bounties to super-powers is a bad idea though, not by a long way.
The thing is, everything you're saying would be perfectly valid - IF the C&P changes were entirely PvP-oriented - but the C&P changes affect PvE just as much as they do PvP.
In fact, the defacto design of the game is that all the mechanics are in fact PvE - it's just that the same mechanics also apply when it's PvP.
I have a feeling that Frontier are of the opinion that for too long, the BGS (which is entirely PvE based!) has been far too easily and quickly affected by way of committing crimes against NPC's. This seems to be an effective way of slowing down BGS influence by way of NPC murder.
No it doesn't there is no contradiction between a module that can reveal all bounties for all powers and tieing bounties to superpowers, thats made up nonsense!
And nor does it need to...the idea that in some advanced future galaxy if a pilot changes ship they are no longer wanted is one of the most moronic parts of the new C&P system...but leaving that aside it is entirely possible that the KWS could reveal all crimes the NPC has commited in the ship you scan (the only ship they have)
As you now admit it is a design decision, not a "conflict" or "incompatible" (which was the words first used by the devs) These words Imply different things, technical things, not deliberate choices.
You know different people can have different opinion on what is incompatible or not, especially about high concept designs?
'Incompatible' doesn't mean only it is technically incompatible. I know, I just blew your brain. Sorry about that
Sorry, I wasn't exact; When I said that's how games die; I meant the antagonising of the player-base.
In the OP it is plain to see, the PvE bounty system is being nerfed. And we're being sold, that the reason for this, is for a new C&P system that in the main, will never effect the PvE player-base.
I don't think FD think of the KWS as "primarily" a PVP tool BUT (from the Q&A livestream) I DO think the respsonse to my KWS question (where Sandro started talking about how you can hunt down and kill the wanted ship multiple times in order to claim each successive bounty) was clearly made with PVP in mind (NPC's are non-persistant so the idea of hunting down and killing the same NPC multiple times didn't make any sense). That's where this idea started I think so your citation is the livestream really.
Also, from the OP of this thread ...
FD clearly stated that C&P changes fully because they want to go back and change how crime works overall, not just against players. And yes, manipulating BGS with murder is one of those things they wanted to change.
Alec, if you remember during streams it is almost evident that FD is more interested about C&P effect on BGS more than player versus player. Adam talked about it, Sandro talked about it...
They clearly want to shoreline effect on what PvE combat has on BGS. That's why things change.
Seriously? They want to shoreline what effect a dynamically created in code entity has on the coded BGS?
Would love this. Makes bounty hunting more like I wanted it to be from the start. Not just farming in Haz Res.
As long as we can see when we have a bounty or at-risk from being scanned in a jurisdiction, it's all good.
Agree.
This is really the best solution I can think of too, and I honestly don't see how it wouldn't be compatible with the new C&P system either. Simple solution that addresses all the issues here.
Honestly, this seems like a reasonable solution to me.
It brings back some utility to the KWS in a PvE bounty hunting context, as long as there are some nearby factions supporting the same superpower (which is usually true).
As for the "going to other systems" aspect of KWSing people ... I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that in the live game any local (i.e. non-superpower) bounty claims you acquire in a system can be claimed in that system, due to the presence of the faction in question. I don't remember encountering a scenario where that isn't true for a long time.
I do still question, though, whether it would really be "too punishing" for players brought to justice for all their bounties at once. I think career criminals in this game tend to have significant cash on hand, and are usually aware of what their actions can entail. This, combined with the fact that the ship selling option makes it relatively difficult to have an "unresolvable" rebuy screen scenario after you've been playing for a while, makes me think that maybe it could still be an acceptable solution.
But, of course, FD are welcome to disagree and currently seem to! They certainly have more to go on than my anecdata, after all.
It brings back some utility to the KWS in a PvE bounty hunting context, as long as there are some nearby factions supporting the same superpower (which is usually true).
As for the "going to other systems" aspect of KWSing people ... I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that in the live game any local (i.e. non-superpower) bounty claims you acquire in a system can be claimed in that system, due to the presence of the faction in question. I don't remember encountering a scenario where that isn't true for a long time.
I do still question, though, whether it would really be "too punishing" for players brought to justice for all their bounties at once. I think career criminals in this game tend to have significant cash on hand, and are usually aware of what their actions can entail. This, combined with the fact that the ship selling option makes it relatively difficult to have an "unresolvable" rebuy screen scenario after you've been playing for a while, makes me think that maybe it could still be an acceptable solution.
But, of course, FD are welcome to disagree and currently seem to! They certainly have more to go on than my anecdata, after all.
Incompatible = "not capable of being used in combination" The two systems are capable of being used in combination, the devs just don't want too
Simple as that really.
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Sadly I think this is whats going to happen:
-None of the concerns about rep with factions not aligned to any/controlling factions superpower will be responded too
-3.0 will go live with the crap system as is
-We may get this system as part of 3.1 if we are lucky around late May/June
-We will have to put up with it for several more months until there is a CG in an independent system which finally reveals all of concerns listed above and the penny *finally* drops that actually yes we may have had a point!
-There will be a lot of the less forum orientated players very upset about their cash nerf - as admitted by Sandro's OP, talk of "more grind" etc etc Meanwhile passenger missions will continue to pay ridiculous amounts compared to all other activities for reasons not at all related to selling DLC....
-At some point, maybe around Christmas we may finally get the KWS updated *Again* to include all bounties in the local system, if we are lucky, but odds are the devs will just give up and not bother, as will most of those currently not happy with the changes, after all we'll have lovely new paint jobs to buy for new ships wont we?
-None of the concerns about rep with factions not aligned to any/controlling factions superpower will be responded too
-3.0 will go live with the crap system as is
-We may get this system as part of 3.1 if we are lucky around late May/June
-We will have to put up with it for several more months until there is a CG in an independent system which finally reveals all of concerns listed above and the penny *finally* drops that actually yes we may have had a point!
-There will be a lot of the less forum orientated players very upset about their cash nerf - as admitted by Sandro's OP, talk of "more grind" etc etc Meanwhile passenger missions will continue to pay ridiculous amounts compared to all other activities for reasons not at all related to selling DLC....
-At some point, maybe around Christmas we may finally get the KWS updated *Again* to include all bounties in the local system, if we are lucky, but odds are the devs will just give up and not bother, as will most of those currently not happy with the changes, after all we'll have lovely new paint jobs to buy for new ships wont we?
I know I'm some armchair developer, but can't you just keep the current KWS for NPC, and add an exception for human cmdrs? We would get the best of both worlds.
I'm in no way trying to be snarky or anything, but some of your design decisions are awfully circumvoluted.
I'm in no way trying to be snarky or anything, but some of your design decisions are awfully circumvoluted.
Way new C&P system works is that when ship is nailed by crimes, it goes to prison, but pays only about crimes against specific faction and superpower.
It is fundamental part of logic.
You don't like new system because it takes away something you liked. It is valid complain. However it is not devs 'just don't want' to do what you want them to do. You see only your complains, FD see bigger picture about the game and there are tons of other considerations taken into account why they went route they decided to.
It is cool to raise complains. It is not cool to make it all meta with 'these stupid/ignorant devs vs. us smart players who just want it fun'. It is not how it works
KWS changes not because of PvP, but because FD also reshuffles effect combat has on BGS. So it is not about players, at all.
Sandro, why complicate things further? Every crime update complicates things more and more. Soon we will need 50 page powerpoint presentations to explain to newcomers how crime and punishment works in the game.
Remember one of the main principles of software development: KISS.
Surely to keep the PvEers happy, all that needs to happen is for secondary bounties on NPCs be increased significantly then the KWS becomes useful again. It doesn't solve the problem of the new complicated system, but avoids making it any more complex. The more you try and work around issues, the more issues you will create for yourself.
Remember one of the main principles of software development: KISS.
Surely to keep the PvEers happy, all that needs to happen is for secondary bounties on NPCs be increased significantly then the KWS becomes useful again. It doesn't solve the problem of the new complicated system, but avoids making it any more complex. The more you try and work around issues, the more issues you will create for yourself.
Afaik before this proposal there was NO secondary bounties with KWS in upcoming 3.0 no?
This proposal add chance for having secondary bounties, and bonus extra for hardcore players - showing claimable bounties from other superpowers.
Not seeing how it complicates things. It is still simpler than pinjata we had before.