Modes [video] BGS & Power play in SOLO & PRIVATE

[Roybe]

Another funny video. Good stuff!

I think the point in this video though, is just another opinion for the hotel california thread.

A couple things though:

- BGS <> PP. The two have been kept separate, as they should be, and they are really two different animals. There are still a couple ways they impact each other (cc thresholds, control systems making faction control near impossible), but they are really completely different. PP is a separate, tacked on, game mode. I can see why you mentioned both though, as you were talking more about modes, and who should have to play where.

- Dav has said that the BGS is a "B" GS, as in "BACKGROUND" simulation. It was not intended to be 'played' the way it is now, with folks supporting minor factions or gov types and taking actions to manipulate it. After some time in game though, it becomes one of the few things 'to do' that give you a 'why am I doing this' sort of satisfaction, however small it may be. So I don't think FD is going to do anything to change their intention, like restrict it to open only.

- Incentives for Open play has been dealt with before and the baby was ugly (several threads, and one with 2000 posts), and that was just in reference to PP. I have a feeling trying to do that for the BGS as well, would go down just as badly.

On a funny note, you mentioned you feel BGS play is as much fun as having your fingers crushed. Lots of people see random players flying around in circles making pew pew about as fun and complex as watching a turd swirl down a toilet.

Gotta link to that...only because PP is strongly affected by who 'owns' what systems (see: Exploitation).

I can agree that there is some need for 'tweaks' to the way the BGS is 'played" (see upcoming C&P, whose main objective seems to be limiting murder throughout the game), but saying that the BGS was not intended to be played (now, or in the past) is quite difficult to believe.

 

[Abil Midena]

Gotta link to that...only because PP is strongly affected by who 'owns' what systems (see: Exploitation).

I can agree that there is some need for 'tweaks' to the way the BGS is 'played" (see upcoming C&P, whose main objective seems to be limiting murder throughout the game), but saying that the BGS was not intended to be played (now, or in the past) is quite difficult to believe.

Unless something has changed, the effect is only to the threshold of undermining/fortifying. I personally wouldn't call that "strongly affected", but I don't PP anymore. You'd have to poll PP folks to really get a good opinion on it.

My reference to Dav is from one of the BGS live stream interview Q&A with ED thingys. I think it was last year, early, but it could have been in 2016.

 

[Roybe]

Unless something has changed, the effect is only to the threshold of undermining/fortifying. I personally wouldn't call that "strongly affected", but I don't PP anymore. You'd have to poll PP folks to really get a good opinion on it.

My reference to Dav is from one of the BGS live stream interview Q&A with ED thingys. I think it was last year, early, but it could have been in 2016.

I know if we kept systems in the area around Lugh as independents..the costs to fortifying were hugely reduced. Since the BGS is a little 'much' to deal with + PP, a lot of the PP groups did not deal with the BGS. Mahon, being strongly in the Alliance area, IIRC EDC worked the BGS back in the day to minimize the amount of fortification....it was part of the early strategy on expansion...

 

[CMDR Jet Black]

My 2 cents:

1st cent: PP influenced by open only. PP is clearly a PvP mechanic. So Open only.
2nd cent: Solo and Private commerce BGS influence galaxy. Not the faction thingie.

Unless I'm missing something here, then both cents on open only.

 

[CMDR Jet Black]

Or maybe a compromise then.

Solo and Private Group influence is smaller than Open Play influence. Like 25% so people need to do more legwork to really influence the galaxy, without taking any risks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Or maybe a compromise then.

Solo and Private Group influence is smaller than Open Play influence. Like 25% so people need to do more legwork to really influence the galaxy, without taking any risks.

Everyone bought the game with the ability to affect the single shared galaxy state from any game mode.

What is being couched as a "compromise" isn't one - it's a simple "tweak the game to suit those who like direct PvP" demand (in a game that has absolutely no requirement to engage in direct PvP)

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Open affects PG and Solo as well. Damn those open players for affect MY bgs!!!

Although, as we have seen in our system, its rare to see anyone in our home except our allies.

If there was a separation of BGS for different modes (not that FD will do that) or a proper offline mode, then there could be a case made for it.

However, the BGS is a PvE activity, so modes shouldn't matter anyway.

However, if it were to become open only (and i think i can say with 100% confidence it won't), then my choices are switch to open and work there until I spot a player, then switch to PG/solo until later. Or just not bother with the BGS and stop taking part in an activity that has kept me entertained for many hours in this game.

Can't say i like either option, especially just to satisfy those who want the BGS to be some sort of PvP game.

 

[Jockey79]

My 2 cents:

1st cent: PP influenced by open only. PP is clearly a PvP mechanic. So Open only.
2nd cent: Solo and Private commerce BGS influence galaxy. Not the faction thingie.

Unless I'm missing something here, then both cents on open only.

Yes you're missing something.

Power Play cannot be a PvP mechanic as you can Power Play in Solo.
Power Play is pushing PvE tokens about, PvP is not rewarded.
PvP actions do nothing to push your faction forward.

The shared, equal access to the game and all of its features is a design choice.
Which was openly talked about in the Kickstarter phase of Development.

Or maybe a compromise then.

Solo and Private Group influence is smaller than Open Play influence. Like 25% so people need to do more legwork to really influence the galaxy, without taking any risks.

Well I'd support this idea if they made open play a subscription only service.
Say £14.99 / month ? (Solo / PG remains free to play)

Then you'd have a reason to earn more than the other modes.
And Frontier gets some cash to help with development costs.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Some names change, While others stay the same. AMIRITE BOYS!

This wont happen forever.

The hotel is burning. Right before your eyes.

The same people do their best to fight against it for years and years saying it cant be done. Even though Sandro has expressed that they could do it. And are very capable of doing so.

Its quite simple really. They want people to play ALL of the game. Not just some of this because its convenient for them.

The veterans in this game that actually take part in this stuff know the game and know it well. They arent opting out of PVP because they dont want to PVP. They are Opting out of it because its not beneficial to do so.

Defenses for Open = less impact and time due to those ship builds.

Private and solo you can min max against NPC's and not the group of people you are Trading/Hauling/Killing cops against. And no need for Engineering except for an FSD.

No Grom missiles, not Hull Reinforcement packages none of that. Just +++ missions.

Again, we've all seen those posts about those naked cutters getting Powerplant sniped. Thats an end game ship. And they were min maxing for a CG. You guys really think people that know every single turn in this game is not taking advantage of these modes against the other people they are at "war" with. You got another thing coming.

The game people bought and the game we have NOW are two different things. And its time to adjust the rules around those FACTS.

Deny it, post walls of text. Do whatever you guys want. It cant and wont be stopped.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

After reading them threads where people complain about BGS & that doing things for it in solo is cheating : it sparked an idea for this!
Now to note once more : doing BGS or power play in solo or private IS NOT CHEATING and if you think it is : well you are wrong!
Still do I think that BGS & Power play influence be reserved ONLY for open.. Yes.

Intentionally waited this time till I watched the vid

See, this is what I like about your videos and posts. A clear distinction from facts and opinion. I don't always agree with you, but you're not stating your opinion as being the end all conversation stopper, which is why I often appreciate you stating it.

Plus chuckles, there's always chuckles.

To address one point you made, the 'system cop killing and a few other things'. Isn't the overpowered effect of those the issue rather than which mode they occur in?

 

[Jockey79]

They want people to play ALL of the game.

Actually, no they don't.

David Braben said he wants people to do what they enjoy.
Some people don't enjoy PvP, but enjoy PvE.
Some people enjoy sitting in a CZ - I don't, I'd rather sit in a RES.

Edit;

Found David Brabens Quote as proof,

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/

 

[Robert Maynard]

To address one point you made, the 'system cop killing and a few other things'. Isn't the overpowered effect of those the issue rather than which mode they occur in?

The introduction of ATR would seem to be aimed at the disproportionate effect that "system cop killing" has on the BGS, among others - no mode restriction was introduced - an NPC solution was designed.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It cant and wont be stopped.

What won't be stopped? Your post is a bit erm... rambling.

 

[Sylveria]

What won't be stopped? Your post is a bit erm... rambling.

LOL what else is new?

 

[jasonbarron]

https://youtu.be/Y48U_JXYMLk

After reading them threads where people complain about BGS & that doing things for it in solo is cheating : it sparked an idea for this!
Now to note once more : doing BGS or power play in solo or private IS NOT CHEATING and if you think it is : well you are wrong!
Still do I think that BGS & Power play influence be reserved ONLY for open.. Yes.

Oh man, by the end there I was laughing so hard! Too bad I can only give it one rep, because brother, the blooper reel alone deserves +100.

And I agree with your point, too, btw. Spot on.

 

[CMDR Jet Black]

Everyone bought the game with the ability to affect the single shared galaxy state from any game mode.

What is being couched as a "compromise" isn't one - it's a simple "tweak the game to suit those who like direct PvP" demand (in a game that has absolutely no requirement to engage in direct PvP)

Good sir, I like being ganked as much as the next person. I'm not asking (definitely not demanding) the game to be suited to me cause I don't even like direct PvP. I play most of my time on a Private Group.

I do, however, suggest (since this topic is an opinion and if you want to get an informed opinion you should gather the most opinions you can), that in a mechanic that involves altering territory, the players should have more ways to influence it, not less.

The compromise I suggest shows I'm not tilting to one side, I'm tilting to both. I'm not suggesting private/solo should be devoid of influence, I'm just suggesting it should be tuned to match risks taken.

And as a last note, I'm a new player. I don't see your message as very welcoming.

Again, my opinion.

 

[Jockey79]

What won't be stopped?

The truth man, the truth.
You cannot stop the entire globe finding out the Earth is flat.

The truth is out there!!!!!!

 

[CMDR Jet Black]

Power Play cannot be a PvP mechanic as you can Power Play in Solo.

Power versus Power. The PP system pits Powers against Powers. Players that join these Powers influence the Power's expansion. Players of opposing Powers can disrupt a Powers' expansion. Arguing that you can "play in Solo" doesn't remove it from being a PvP mechanic.

Power Play is pushing PvE tokens about, PvP is not rewarded.

Immediately, yes. Tier 3 rewards you get from said tokens however, are definitely weapons and shields that PvPers and CQCers will use if they have access to them. Arguing a mechanical step without looking at the whole system is just limiting a view for the sake of argument.

PvP actions do nothing to push your faction forward.

While this is truth at first glance, intercepting players delivering commodities to a system can make your faction win or lose a system in the long run.

The shared, equal access to the game and all of its features is a design choice. Which was openly talked about in the Kickstarter phase of Development.

I'm not suggesting it to be removed entirely, just tweaked to match risks. And I wouldn't know about the Kickstarter phase of Development since I only play since December 3303. And I love this game. Using "Kickstarter phase of Development" as an argument does not make it smarter. It only makes it blind.

Well I'd support this idea if they made open play a subscription only service.
Say £14.99 / month ? (Solo / PG remains free to play)

While I'd happily pay 15quid a month for this game (Frontier deserves it), then it would only be Open Play. Solo and Private groups have NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER in the Galaxy.

Until then, I suggest compromise: Have people that take higher risks to receive higher rewards. And I'm not even talking about items. I'm talking about galactic political power.

Again this is my opinion on how Power Play should be improved. I don't really get it why people get inflamed by others opinion.

And currently I only play Private not because of grievers, but because I want to meet people that play this game. Something I "ironically" can't do in "Open" since there's barely anyone in there.

Again, my opinion.

 

[Sylveria]

The truth man, the truth.
You cannot stop the entire globe finding out the Earth is flat.

The truth is out there!!!!!!

Some people's opinions are "out there", too... waaaaaaay out there. Like... far out, man.

 

[Jockey79]

Power versus Power. The PP system pits Powers against Powers. Players that join these Powers influence the Power's expansion. Players of opposing Powers can disrupt a Powers' expansion. Arguing that you can "play in Solo" doesn't remove it from being a PvP mechanic.

Trying to redefine PvP shows you have no counter.
And as you use PvP properly lower down, you blew your own failed argument.

PP is not and cannot be a PvP mechanic.

Immediately, yes. Tier 3 rewards you get from said tokens however, are definitely weapons and shields that PvPers and CQCers will use if they have access to them. Arguing a mechanical step without looking at the whole system is just limiting a view for the sake of argument.

CQC has its own limited gear choices, so no they won't be using PP gear.

People can also fit weapons to a Type 7, doesn't make it a PvP ship.
So you can ignore that PP has a few selected items that some PvP'ers find useful and it does not make PP a PvP mechanic.

While this is truth at first glance, intercepting players delivering commodities to a system can make your faction win or lose a system in the long run.

If everyone on your side is out doing PvP patrols, then no matter how many folks you stop, those in Solo / PG will win it for their side.
Doing PvP for PP slows your side down and you're not helping, you're hindering your own progress. You'd be more helpful and efficient hauling those PVE tokens about.

I'm not suggesting it to be removed entirely, just tweaked to match risks.

What risks? People keep complaining that Open is empty and that the game needs incentives to get folks back in to open.

And I wouldn't know about the Kickstarter phase of Development since I only play since December 3303.

Well it's you're own fault for not researching the game before buying it then.
Equal access to all of the game via all platforms in all modes was the plan from the start.

You wouldn't walk in to a car dealership, throw money at them and say give me a car - then moan if you get one you don't like, so why do it with PC gaming?

While I'd happily pay 15quid a month for this game (Frontier deserves it), then it would only be Open Play. Solo and Private groups have NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER in the Galaxy.

I refer you to the above.
Plus the game is also heavily instanced.
And you can block people from your instance with the in game block option.

Open only does not mean you get more people to shoot at. It just means more people have you on block.

Until then, I suggest compromise: Have people that take higher risks to receive higher rewards.

Great idea, Solo players take the highest risk as they cannot get a Wing to help them like Open and PGs can.
And of course, putting PvP'ers on block removes all risk from Open, so perhaps a minus for Open mode, as they get Wings with no threats.

Again, my opinion.

And if you're trying to improve PP, then your opinion here is flawed.
First step to improve PP is to stop module shopping by removing them and give people a reason to stick with a faction not jump from one to other constantly.