A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Jmanis]

In your home system is there any minimum presence?

I ask because we have a single outpost without market or shipyard. Is it possible that we might lose it too and have no assets or is there a minimum?

Also how can you tell if a station has been UA bombed? As I say it has no market to check for Meta alloy demand and I never saw it prior to our home system being invaded..

Just FYI, it's also impossible to UA bomb a station with no market (and a black market). Through much frustration, bug reports and gnashing of teeth at FD's vague responses did I finally work that out. Obviously, the reason is that if you UA bomb a station, you need to be able to repair it with meta-alloys. If there's no market, you can't do that.

EDIT: Curiously, I see the station I experimented this on (Walker Survey, Kagutsuchi) no longer has a black market, nor does it appear as a disabled facility. Maybe FD removed black markets where there was no corresponding standard market.

 

[Starwolfe]

Just FYI, it's also impossible to UA bomb a station with no market (and a black market). Through much frustration, bug reports and gnashing of teeth at FD's vague responses did I finally work that out. Obviously, the reason is that if you UA bomb a station, you need to be able to repair it with meta-alloys. If there's no market, you can't do that.

EDIT: Curiously, I see the station I experimented this on (Walker Survey, Kagutsuchi) no longer has a black market, nor does it appear as a disabled facility. Maybe FD removed black markets where there was no corresponding standard market.

The second part sounds more plausible.

The UA bomb trigger might have been met, and instead of a complete shutdown they removed the BM.

 

[Chaffers]

you can exist in your home system with no assets and 1% influence. YOu market will not have been UA bombed if it has no black market. It impossible.

There is a black market, which seems to open and close periodically.

As I understand it UAs close down station facilities... Hence I'm wondering whether the outpost did once have a market but has been UA'ed and wondering how one could tell.

Might the price offered by a black market for Meta Alloys be an indication for instance?

Also if UA's close station facilities and meta alloys repair them... Has anyone tried delivering loads of MA's to a healthy station? Other than shielding it against future AU attacks might it... do something?

 

[Starwolfe]

Also if UA's close station facilities and meta alloys repair them... Has anyone tried delivering loads of MA's to a healthy station? Other than shielding it against future AU attacks might it... do something?

not sure about the rest, but I am aware that MAs can be used in such a fashion to buff the station in preparation for a UA hit.

I am not 100% sure on the mechanics behind it, wither there's a timer it lasts or if you just dump a ton it'll stay stable until UAs are delivered.

Or TS? Thargoid Sensors I think they are called now.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

EDIT: Curiously, I see the station I experimented this on (Walker Survey, Kagutsuchi) no longer has a black market, nor does it appear as a disabled facility. Maybe FD removed black markets where there was no corresponding standard market.

All the way up to 2.3 our MF (independent Dictatorship) disabled Black Markets. These are still visible in the System map info.

After 2.3 launched we took some Stations over who previously had a operational Black Market and they simply vanished from existence. No more disabling but more annihilation looks like.

If this was yet another unwanted side product or actually working as intended we'll see once 3.0 hits.

Edit:

After logging into the game I checked the assets where the BM simply vanished after the takeover.

None of them have Commodities aka a Market to begin with, the other places in our area where BMs are simply disabled are those with Commodities.

So we can mark it as true that operational BMs on any type of Station that don't have a Commodities facility to begin with need to be removed.

That should make Wings who don't have autoritharian governments and thus automatically disable / remove any BMs go and check their assets more thoroughly to bug report possible findings to FD.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Interesting thing on Black Markets from Colonia. CEI-class surface bases don't have a black market [1] to start with, but a few of them have gained black markets when the station changed hands, and then kept it when it was retaken by the original faction.

Hypothesis: service activation and deactivation is not continuously checked, only on certain triggers (presumably for efficiency). So the CEI-class bases have no black market as a setup exception but would normally have one, so any change of government re-checks it and may activate them.

Secondary evidence: the Bone Yard was UA-bombed at a time when it had a Colony market (11 May 3303). On 26 May 3303, as a result of a CG, the system economy was switched to Refinery. The Bone Yard's market then became a normal Refinery market (no meta-alloy demand) despite the rest of the station still being shut down - the UA damage was not repaired until 1 June.

[1] Exception: the one owned by a criminal-ethos faction (Feudal government, criminal ethos) did start with a black market.

 

[Ka_Tor]

As long as you don't linger in the CZ and only go in for one kill and then return to cash that in you will. Rinse / repeat until you can't anymore, and if your friends / Wingmates do that too it will be seen who hast the most transactions done - you or the opposition.

For a person who would log on to spend 45 to 60 mins in the CZ before I go to bed, this breaks my heart. All of this time, I've been doing it wrong. Well I was fortunate enough to have low traffic.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

For a person who would log on to spend 45 to 60 mins in the CZ before I go to bed, this breaks my heart. All of this time, I've been doing it wrong. Well I was fortunate enough to have low traffic.

Sorry to hear that mate. But that's how the whole game operates at current. Minus Trading where they took it out of.

 

[zzUrbanSpaceman]

You'll enter a conflict if your influence passes the opposing faction and there are no blocking states. You can go above or below them to start the conflict (election, war or civil war).

There is no margin. If two factions have their influences pass one another, the influence will sync at the average of the two at the tick.

I just wanted some further clarification on this vs some behaviour I've seen in the wild.

Scenario 1:
* Faction "My Awesome Guys" is already at war in System "Somewhere Nobody Cares About", with Faction "Nobody Cares About Me"
* Faction "My Awesome Guys" is in control of "Super Awesome System"
* Faction "The Naughty Dudes" boosts their influence past "My Awesome Guys" in "Super Awesome System"

In this scenario it seems that "The Naughty Dudes" can happily keep building their influence above "My Awesome Guys" without triggering a conflict, because "My Awesome Guys" are already in conflict. Does that marry up with the current understanding of the mechanic?

Scenario 2:
* Same as Scenario 1, except that "My Awesome Guys" are pending conflict in "Somewhere Nobody Cares About".

Does this trigger another pending conflict in "Super Awesome System" or does the other already pending conflict trump this one?

 

[MottiKhan]

I just wanted some further clarification on this vs some behaviour I've seen in the wild.

Scenario 1:
* Faction "My Awesome Guys" is already at war in System "Somewhere Nobody Cares About", with Faction "Nobody Cares About Me"
* Faction "My Awesome Guys" is in control of "Super Awesome System"
* Faction "The Naughty Dudes" boosts their influence past "My Awesome Guys" in "Super Awesome System"

In this scenario it seems that "The Naughty Dudes" can happily keep building their influence above "My Awesome Guys" without triggering a conflict, because "My Awesome Guys" are already in conflict. Does that marry up with the current understanding of the mechanic?

Scenario 2:
* Same as Scenario 1, except that "My Awesome Guys" are pending conflict in "Somewhere Nobody Cares About".

Does this trigger another pending conflict in "Super Awesome System" or does the other already pending conflict trump this one?

A faction can only have one pending, active or recovering conflict (war, civil war or election) at a time. If any of these states are present, another conflict can't go pending. So yes, a faction can pass influence and not trigger a conflict in these cases.

 

[Gusty]

What is the most effective to get rid off a control faction if this faction is from another system ?

 

[Jane Turner]

Remove them from control, or remove them entirel?y

 

[Starwolfe]

What is the most effective to get rid off a control faction if this faction is from another system ?

As Jane said we'll need to know more about what your goals are.

Do you just want someone else in charge? Support that group until they fight for control then support them till they win.

Do you want to kick them out of the system? Its a bit more complicated, but there may be options to cause a retreat by lowering their influence by getting them in a War in another system then work other factions to push them down and out.

 

[Gusty]

Remove them from control, or remove them entirel?y

Whatever.
So killing their security ships do not help more than doing missions ?
Atm i am killing hundrets of their ships, but ofc i cant do missions at same time. No landing possible in this system.

 

[Frigna the Hutt]

Whatever.
So killing their security ships do not help more than doing missions ?
Atm i am killing hundrets of their ships, but ofc i cant do missions at same time. No landing possible in this system.

Killing security is not the most effective way. Push the faction outbreak, but do not significantly reduce the influence.

The fastest method is to raise all the other factions of the system. With gaming actions. Missions, trade, exploration data, in favor of antagonistic factions.

The best thing is to push that faction into a state of war or civil war in another system, and to do missions against the system that interests you.

 

[Sasquatch6987]

So, some friends and I are moving into a system in an attempt to make a player faction. Currently, the system in question only has two outposts and a land base; is anyone aware of a way to change that? Meaning, is there a way to force the game to add larger stations(Coriolis or otherwise) through BGS manipulation, or is that only something that can be achieved through FD intervention?

Also, if we were to start a player faction in a system that isn't the, let's say, 'primary system' in the area, would that system be capable of being our main system, or do we have to choose the current 'primary system'?

 

[Starwolfe]

So, some friends and I are moving into a system in an attempt to make a player faction. Currently, the system in question only has two outposts and a land base; is anyone aware of a way to change that? Meaning, is there a way to force the game to add larger stations(Coriolis or otherwise) through BGS manipulation, or is that only something that can be achieved through FD intervention?

Also, if we were to start a player faction in a system that isn't the, let's say, 'primary system' in the area, would that system be capable of being our main system, or do we have to choose the current 'primary system'?

Stations have to be manually put in - and FDev doesn't do that lightly.

You can ask for a CG to do it - but it is uncertain if they will.

The Primary system only relates to your Home system - the only special effect is that you cannot retreat from your Home.
You can start elsewhere and expand in eventually, but you'll have to be somewhat vigilant to keep the faction from retreating there.

 

[Sasquatch6987]

Stations have to be manually put in - and FDev doesn't do that lightly.

You can ask for a CG to do it - but it is uncertain if they will.

The Primary system only relates to your Home system - the only special effect is that you cannot retreat from your Home.
You can start elsewhere and expand in eventually, but you'll have to be somewhat vigilant to keep the faction from retreating there.

So, I'm assuming that no matter what we do in the system, unless FDev gets their hands dirty, we won't be able to add station functions or get a larger station in place of what is there currently, as well. Hmm, that would be awesome if they'd add that feature in; giving player factions the ability to modify their environment over time, with great effort from a large group of people, completing missions and bringing in raw materials, that stations could expand and new land bases would pop up, etc.

I had read through the first page of this thread before I posted yesterday, but it seems that some of the finer points are still pretty vauge. So, no matter where we set up our home system, regardless of where it is in the power play map, our factions' home system will remain the same, correct?

 

[Starwolfe]

So, I'm assuming that no matter what we do in the system, unless FDev gets their hands dirty, we won't be able to add station functions or get a larger station in place of what is there currently, as well. Hmm, that would be awesome if they'd add that feature in; giving player factions the ability to modify their environment over time, with great effort from a large group of people, completing missions and bringing in raw materials, that stations could expand and new land bases would pop up, etc.

I had read through the first page of this thread before I posted yesterday, but it seems that some of the finer points are still pretty vauge. So, no matter where we set up our home system, regardless of where it is in the power play map, our factions' home system will remain the same, correct?

Yep, once your put in your home is your home. That won't change afterwards.

Some things like QoL should be able to improve over time, but there is some debate how.
What I am referring to are things like Outfitting options or Ship choices - but you can't add outfitting where there isn't one or a shipyard that doesn't exist at first.

Some like myself think its tied to Cartography Data, but I have seen reports of it being tied to the station owner going through different states like Boom.

 

[Sasquatch6987]

Yep, once your put in your home is your home. That won't change afterwards.

Some things like QoL should be able to improve over time, but there is some debate how.
What I am referring to are things like Outfitting options or Ship choices - but you can't add outfitting where there isn't one or a shipyard that doesn't exist at first.

Some like myself think its tied to Cartography Data, but I have seen reports of it being tied to the station owner going through different states like Boom.

QoL, you mean quality of life? And they really should make it so we can modify basic port functions, imo...