Why are we being robbed of grade 5 in the engineering conversion for no reason?

[Stealthie]

Your statement here makes zero sense. When players have put in dozens or hundreds of rolls into a mod, and none of that work is converted into new Grade 5 system where the new mods are massively more powerful, why would a player ever be "happy with what they already have" when FD devalued all of that hard work?

I was restating your own complaint so if it "makes zero sense" that's on you.

It seems like what you're actually complaining about is that better mod's are now available, thus relegating the mod's people spent a lot of effort creating to mediocrity.
Well, boo-hoo.
Things change.

I've got plenty of ships which I've spent a lot of time and effort modding.
I'm looking forward to 3.0 so I can upgrade those ships even further.
I already put dozens of hours into the mod's so I'm not at all bothered about putting in even more time to improve those ships even more.

What you're doing is like moaning that it took you 2 years to build a Vauxhall Viva by hand and now a machine can build a Vauxhall Astra VXR in half an hour.

 

[Devari]

It seems like what you're actually complaining about is that better mod's are now available, thus relegating the mod's people spent a lot of effort creating to mediocrity.
Well, boo-hoo.
Things change.

If that's truly your "understanding" of the issue here then you either haven't read the threads on this topic or you're trolling.

I suspect you're probably trolling because you seem to be intentionally ignoring the actual reasons that have been described in detail by myself and others about the problem here.

 

[Red Anders]

So you're suggesting that you don't understand why this issue is a problem?

I mean if you can't even explain the concept back to me then you're simply trolling here.

I'm suggesting that the truly critical issue here is one of perspective.

As for your second line, I won't muddy the waters by suggesting anything with regard to that; I'll just state quite overtly that I'm not seeking your approval, nor is gaining it a requirement to comment here.

I have spent a considerable amount of time on engineering ships within the current system by the way. The issue is that you seem to be under the impression that your opinion of what is and is not acceptable is actually some kind of generally accepted standard. It isn't; as a 46 year old man I'm perfectly capable of making that judgement for myself as it applies to my situation.

This is not a discussion which is grounded in 'right' and 'wrong'.

 

[Devari]

I'm suggesting that the truly critical issue here is one of perspective.

As for your second line, I won't muddy the waters by suggesting anything with regard to that; I'll just state quite overtly that I'm not seeking your approval, nor is gaining it a requirement to comment here.

So given that this post hasn't actually displayed an understanding of the topic or contributed to the discussion in any conceivable manner, I'm guessing that trolling was an accurate assessment?

 

[Red Anders]

So given that this post hasn't actually displayed an understanding of the topic or contributed to the discussion in any conceivable manner, I'm guessing that trolling was an accurate assessment?

See above, post-edit.

You're coming across as incredibly arrogant here by the way. On the assumption that you won't understand why or how I'll clarify it for you.

I'm not going to make a lengthy post to demonstrate my understanding of the situation to you, not because I don't have that understanding (it's not actually a difficult topic) but because I really don't give a crap whether you think I understand it or not. Your high-handed assumption that anybody who can find better ways to spend their time must either be trying to mask their ignorance, or just trolling, is only serving to reinforce that position.

I'm fully cognisant of the facts. I simply hold a different opinion than you. I'm sorry that you've interpreted my refusal to enter into worthless debate as something other than what it is; a reflection of the fact that I don't enjoy spending my spare time on pointless activities.

 

[LeoBartlet]

So given that this post hasn't actually displayed an understanding of the topic or contributed to the discussion in any conceivable manner, I'm guessing that trolling was an accurate assessment?

Come on now you can't just dismiss everyone as a troll because they don't see things your way.

 

[Mohrgan]

So given that this post hasn't actually displayed an understanding of the topic or contributed to the discussion in any conceivable manner, I'm guessing that trolling was an accurate assessment?

Pro Tip: Not agreeing with you is not trolling.

Understanding your points, and still disagreeing doesn't mean someone is trying to get a rise out of you. It just means that there are other Opinions out there, and they should all be heard.

Contemplate that oh all knowing one...

 

[Devari]

See above, post-edit.

Doesn't address the topic or add to the discussion in any meaningful manner, hence the term trolling. You might as well respond to a C&P thread by stating "well I don't mind being griefed" or "I don't have any problems in Open" or any other dismissive comment that pretends the issue isn't a problem just because you personally choose not to view it as one.

Come on now you can't just dismiss everyone as a troll because they don't see things your way.

I can call trolling exactly what it is, which is what I've been doing. I'm not having an important thread de-railed because certain players try to troll it off-topic with personal attacks or with dismissal of a valid gameplay concern that was raised numerous times since the 3.0 beta.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

If that's truly your "understanding" of the issue here then you either haven't read the threads on this topic or you're trolling.

I suspect you're probably trolling because you seem to be intentionally ignoring the actual reasons that have been described in detail by myself and others about the problem here.

Do you even see the fundamental irony of what you expect FD to do to handle legacy modules?

You want them to convert what we have from a system that is hugely random, to the new system that is far more prescriptive, doesn't even contain the same secondary effects or combinations of them.
And you expect them to get that right? For every conceivable result of every different upgrade of every module in the game,

You know, the same people who, to paraphrase you, continually release flawed updates that require immediate and ongoing bug fixes and significant review of fundamental design decisions.

Jog on, you're just wasting your breath and everyone else's bandwidth.

 

[Blackcompany]

Sorry, but FD choosing to intentionally invalidate 2 years of Engineering grind is nothing like buying a laptop. It's a deliberate, intentional decision by FD to force players to do more grind because they are utterly incapable of providing meaningful game content that players want to play.

Sooner or later the white knights will realize these aren't place holders, and Fdev can't design game play. Either can't, or refuse to. It's coming.

 

[Devari]

Do you even see the fundamental irony of what you expect FD to do to handle legacy modules?

First, FD had no problem remapping Engineering results into lower ranges, even when it involves completely removing certain values, so it's not difficult at all for them to do the opposite when converting Grade 5 mods to a higher range.

Second, that's not what the term "irony" means.

Jog on, you're just wasting you're breath and everyone else's bandwidth.

Continuing to dismiss a valid gameplay issue isn't constructive or helpful.

Fortunately I have plenty of room on my ignore list for individuals who engage in trolling and repeatedly attempt to derail a legitimate gameplay concern.

 

[Stealthie]

If that's truly your "understanding" of the issue here then you either haven't read the threads on this topic or you're trolling.

I suspect you're probably trolling because you seem to be intentionally ignoring the actual reasons that have been described in detail by myself and others about the problem here.

My understanding of "the issue" isn't important.

What's important is my understanding of your concerns and the only way that can be improved is if you explain them clearly, logically and consistently.


As I said, it seems like your complaint is basically a combination of "people who've spent a long time obtaining mod's will have to do some of it again to arrive at an even better result" and "people will have better mod's than the ones I spent ages obtaining".

Neither of these things is of any great consequence to me.
In the first case, I'm actually looking forward to the opportunity to improve my ships further instead of moaning about the usefulness of the time I've already spent.
In the second case, I simply don't care.

I'd suggest adopting a similar attitude would minimise saltiness.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

First, FD had no problem remapping Engineering results into lower ranges, even when it involves completely removing certain values, so it's not difficult at all for them to do the opposite when converting Grade 5 mods to a higher range.

Second, that's not what the term "irony" means.



Continuing to dismiss a valid gameplay issue isn't constructive or helpful.

Fortunately I have plenty of room on my ignore list for individuals who engage in trolling and repeatedly attempt to derail a legitimate gameplay concern.

I'm in good company I'm sure.
Maybe when the list gets long enough you'll start to think that maybe it's you.

 

[Red Anders]

Doesn't address the topic or add to the discussion in any meaningful manner, hence the term trolling. You might as well respond to a C&P thread by stating "well I don't mind being griefed" or "I don't have any problems in Open" or any other dismissive comment that pretends the issue isn't a problem just because you personally choose not to view it as one.

That is beyond parody. I don't need to troll this thread, you're doing a perfectly fine job of trolling yourself.

I say it's not a problem for me, I'm 'pretending it's not a problem.'

You say it is a problem for you, it's a universal truth.

If you can't see the problem there, you're right that any further contributions from me here are an exercise in futility so I won't waste any more of your time.

To be absolutely clear about this though nothing I have said here is trolling. Not one word.

Sooner or later the white knights will realize these aren't place holders, and Fdev can't design game play. Either can't, or refuse to. It's coming.

Different opinion as to the seriousness of the issue = 'white knight'. But I'm the troll obviously.

Jesus.

 

[GJ51]

Would anyone care for some cheese?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Would anyone care for some cheese?

Cheddar please - there's only hard cheese to be had here.

 

[Devari]

My understanding of "the issue" isn't important.

Yes, it is, because if you refuse to actually read the content of the thread, or deliberately choose to misrepresent it, and have no intention of actually contributing to the discussion then you are trolling.

If that's all you're here to do then that's exactly what it's going to be called.

 

[Stealthie]

Yes, it is, because if you refuse to actually read the content of the thread, or deliberately choose to misrepresent it, and have no intention of actually contributing to the discussion then you are trolling.

If that's all you're here to do then that's exactly what it's going to be called.

I'd suggest you spend more time explaining what you're actually moaning about rather than attempting to define trolling.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

I understand Devari's complaint. He spent 2 years grinding awat for uber G5 rolls, and after Tuesday, he feels his modules will be roughly equal to the new G4 rolls. The kicker is that the time required upgrade to the new G5 level is nothing compared to the 2 years it took him, and it isn't fair that everyone else can have better than what he currently has for less effort. He doesn't understand why FD doesn't take his current max modules and raise them to the new current max.

If I've missed something, let me know (as if I have to ask).

I'll wager that many people have the same modules with equal or better G5 mods and put far less time into it that he did, for whatever reason. Yes there is RNG, but I have three G5 Long Range FSDs that give my Anaconda 62 to 64ly (with shields, SLFs, AFMU, and SRVs) and the last two I got in less than two hours, starting from scratch with the materials and starting at G1. Not God Rolls, but within a few Ly. I run into a diminishing returns situation trying to get any higher, so I don't go for more rolls. Now I'm hearing that I can invest a bit more time, and will be assured (most likely) better performance. For me, this is going from "likely can't get any better" to "likely can get better", so that's a win.

I understand his complaint, and I do not have a problem with the same scenario. I'm not going to say that he shouldn't feel however he does about it, even though I don't see the need to be upset. I disagree, but not because I don't understand.

Rising tide lifts all ships and all that.

Oh, and just as your five year old laptop still works reasonably well, so will your current modules.

 

[Devari]

I'd suggest you spend more time explaining what you're actually moaning about rather than attempting to define trolling.

So you still can't actually explain back to me the concerns that have been raised this thread and yet somehow continue to claim you're not trolling?

Trolling confirmed.