Why are we being robbed of grade 5 in the engineering conversion for no reason?

[Red Anders]

Since you clearly have no intention of truly understanding the issue here and it's been explained in such extensive detail so far I doubt there's anything I could explain that would help you at this point. The most appropriate response now seems to be adding you to my ignore list, along with the other individuals who have been trolling and derailing the point of this thread and have no actual intent to participate in a constructive discussion.

His post was really overwrought. I have no idea why you take everything I write so seriously by the way, maybe if you stopped imagining I'm sitting here in a Guy Fawkes mask trying to make you lose your mind and pretended that I'm just a bloke who plays the same computer game you'd do a better job of interpreting tone.

As for me not participating in a constructive discussion, if that's how you categorise the lengthy post I took the time to write before you felt the need to get offended on someone else's behalf then I suggest you do add me to your ignore list. Come to that, if you still don't recognise that I do understand the issue perfectly well (I actually outlined it in virtually your own words in my post) and simply have a different opinion, that would be another reason.

It's genuinely incredible to me that you can just sit there typing 'you do not understand the issue' over and over again as a succession of people repeat what the issue is, before explaining that it's an issue to you but not to them. Disagreeing with you is not trolling.

 

[MrFailfactory]

Things might have changed since I was in the beta, but if Frontier were to "recognize past efforts properly" by moving current G5 mods to an appropriate place on the G5 scale, that would save...3-5 rolls?

Last time I checked, the bulk of the rolls will be in the final 10% - has this changed?

I'm not sure how that is worth fighting for, or about.

Keep your current G5's, or don't, but no one is being robbed of anything - like it or not, Frontier is making the right choice by essentially pushing (most of) the current God-rolls out of the game, and doing so in a manner that is beneficial to all. Power creep is dangerous, but unfairness is an even more dangerous situation for the long-term health of the game.

I would just like to reiterate that games like this change and evolve over time, and it's really a foolish mindset to think, hope, or feel that you should not have to adapt or that you deserve some sort of compensation when it happens.

Riôt

 

[Mexicola]

The fact that i have to grind like **** just to be viable in pvp has always irritated me, but i man up, and do it anyway.
Now you are telling me i have to do it again? Things like this and the broken smuggling mechanic are what really puts me off coming back to this game. guess i'll hope and wait for the next update.

 

[Eymerich]

I like the new system. I have a lot of G5 modules and they'll be even better after the update. I have loads of G5 "very rare" mats and data to use at the mats traders.

What's not to love?

The time you are going to waste for doing something I have already did.

Also my time is precious because it is limited: and I am not interested in wasting it twice...

That's closer to what I'm suggesting but I'm not referring necessarily to the percentage of the current maximum achieved since it's a very non-linear process with respect to effort involved. The vast majority of rolls in the current system never got near the true "maximums" which were 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 events. I'm referring to the fact that it takes several dozen rolls just to get a "good" (but not outstanding) roll in the current system. I used an example of a Grade 5 dirty drive tune as it's quite easy to understand. A decent 132% roll (near the slider maximum without adding secondaries) was achievable with maybe 10 rolls or less. A 135% roll took an average of around 50 rolls. A 140% roll was probably 1 in 200 and 142%+ was around 1 in 1000 or less.

The new maximum for a Grade 5 dirty drive is 147% which is ridiculously higher than anything in the prior system. An exceptionally lucky roll, maybe 1 in 10,000 might have gotten that in the prior system, but it was so rare that basically no one got that type of result despite making hundreds of rolls. The new system also gives you that ridiculously inflated maximum with an average of 10 Grade 5 rolls which would have maybe gotten you around a 132% roll in the prior system. That is a full 15% lower which is a massive difference and nowhere near competitive for any sort of PvP or even surviving Open if you keep your existing mod.

If you take most players who got a "good" Grade 5 dirty drive tune of 135% they have probably put in 50 rolls on average which is more than enough to maximize their results in the new system. An appropriate conversion should recognize most of that work and might put a prior 135% roll within say 2 rolls of the current Grade 5 maximum, probably around 145% in the new system. A prior roll of 140% might be 146% (i.e., around 1 roll away from the maximum) while a roll of 142% or higher should probably be put right at the maximum of 147% given how much effort it took to achieve.

Someone who just did a small number of Grade 5 rolls with mediocre results would still need to put in another 5-10 rolls in the new system to get the maximum results but at least some of the effort needed to obtain "good" rolls in the existing system would be carried over into the new system. Then you would have some incentive to push another few rolls to maximize the mods but wouldn't need to do this to remain competitive as you would be within say 2-3% of the new maximums, instead of 10-15% less which makes all that prior work basically worthless.

seems reasonable to me.

honestly I don't understand why Fd didn't traspose in % the old stats to the new max stats...

 

[NW3]

I said want the best.

So that's self-inflicted grinding. It seems like you are missing the point. There's a new best, which is guaranteed to be the absolute best, which with a little more effort can be yours. Would you have preferred that FD keep the current system, but say, added a new Grade 6? One that would take potentially thousands of rolls to get?

It seems like what you really want is to keep others from getting the best, with less effort. If that's the case, you are playing the wrong game. Practically everything FD does reduces the effort. Credits are stupid-easy to earn these days. Long distance routing has made exploring significantly easier. More missions are on the board, so you don't have to keep reclogging to get some decent missions. The SRV scanner finally works properly, so you don't have to keep hunting for disappearing rocks to shoot. Etc...

Accept it or don't. Play the game or don't. Don't whine about how unfair it is, because that is futile. FD has made their decision and are unlikely to change it. If you're that unhappy, go find a game that you do enjoy playing.

 

[Maro-Val]

I didn't say anything about how you are or are not allowed to feel or to ask for. I understand a few extra rolls or any extra rolls will not be acceptable to some. I don't havae a problem with it.

You state how you feel and I say that I feel differently, and you imply that I'm not qualified to have an opinion since I do not play as often as you or can't understand the problem.

I can understand the problem, and for now at least, I don't have a problen with the proposed strategy.

For what it is worth, I too have played 'a lot' (though no doubt your definition of that will be different than mine) and have totaled just over 1000 hours in the past tweleve months when I started playing. I have engineered all modules on all ships, and have multiple G5 mods on the same modules for different loadouts, which include near god rolls for G5 DD for several thrusters and G5 long range mods on nine different drives (I list these separately because they are commonly given as examples of grindy mods).

For now, so long as the gains are there and are a given, I'm happy to roll them all again.

Then again, gathering mats has never seemed to be as much of a grind to me as with others, so maybe that has a lot to do with the differences of opinions regarding this issue.

Ok and despite all that, you dont have any problem re-rolling again all those modules and transfering ships or modules to engineeres bases? A pvp Anaconda will take about 115 rolls to get to the same level, if we calculate 5 rolls in each module. 115 rolls man, thats 345 materials for only a ship for christ sake and i dont want to calculate for all the ships (i wont re roll them all to keep my sanity), the number will be crazy. And tranfer everything to engineer bases, to just throw away some more time and credits? I do like that i will finally get the god rolls, but this is madness.

Lol, it was a poorly worded example that plays out across the fleet.
But it is just the Vulture and 2 Asps now that I think about it.
I also have 2 Condas, a Cutter, a Vette, a T-10, two FGS, FAS, FDL, two Pythons and more, all G5 where possible.
Many of them share modules, and since I always roll on more than one module, multiple ships benefit.
They are mostly hand-me-downs.
Better?

Now, how many DD5s over 140%?
None?

You can get that in a few minutes on Tuesday.

Myself, I'm going to be happy to finally get all the rolls I wanted, on every ship.
I'm going to buy many more ships now too, since getting multiple great modules is a given, instead of a fantasy.
There's no need to swap stuff around anymore, just buy another ship.

Poorly worded indeed. For the rest of my answer since you also have all those ships and claim to have them all G5, see above.

It's voluntary overtime and I'm paid for it. We call it a job. Give one a try, they're fun.

Nobody gets a module that's even 1% better in any stat without doing some engineering after 3.0 arrives. You say 'whilst others get even better modules' like they're going to log in on Wednesday and find FDev have converted all their gear to grade 8 mithril-plated Cyberdyne mods or something, whilst you get a video of the entire dev team pointing at you and laughing.

If you already have a shedload of grade 5 modules you will only need to do at most the same amount of additional engineering as any other player to maximise your gear. You will do less than anybody who has grade 4 or lower mods now.

So to recap, you can do a bit more of what you already did. The additional amount is tiny relative to the 2.1 - 2.4 experience and the payoff is significant. The payoff vs time spent calculation is incomparably better for the time you will need to spend on it after 3.0 compared to that in 2.4.

Your mods do actually get better. It's not like we're going to be having to re-do stuff for the hell of it.

You seem to be concerned with the relative position rather than the absolute and you mentioned wanting to 'maintain the playstyle you enjoy'. So I assume PVP is a significant feature of your gameplay? Every significant thread about engineers was prompted by PVP focused players complaining about needing to do thousands of rolls to get God-mods and maintain parity. The entire reason it has been changed is to sate PVP focused players. There was a vast amount of feedback about the new stats from PVP-focused players in the beta threads with loads of tweaks being made as a result of it.

Seriously, I have no beef at all with PVP-focused players, I find the attitude towards them from some players on here to be flat-out nuts but this update has been literally built around their wants and needs. That's fine, there's no doubt that PVP is the aspect of the game where the benefits of engineering are most significant but FDev were never going to just throw a full set of top-rank mods at everybody. Compared to the average FDev timesink, the amount of time that's going to be needed to top off existing G5 mods to the new max is minimal. Your definition of getting shafted seems to be pretty unrealistic; if they really wanted to shaft you all they had to do was spend the last three months working on some PVE stuff and leave engineering as it was.

I'm no shill for FDev but they seem to have managed a decent trade-off here between their natural instinct that content must take six months or more to obtain and players who want to spend less time preparing and more time playing. Just my opinion, fair enough if you disagree.

Oh and just checking - I know this was a reply to someone else



but just for the record I have 17 ships with G5 mods including a fully G5 engineered Corvette and Cutter, so I hope that qualifies me to have at least some elementary grasp of what I'm talking about.

Yea i know. The kind of extra time you volunteer and get paid for pennies while others make millions on your back, while in the general picture you help companies to function with less employees, when they should hire more. No thanks, knock yourself out.
-----------------------
You said: "So to recap, you can do a bit more of what you already did. The additional amount is tiny relative to the 2.1 - 2.4 experience and the payoff is significant. The payoff vs time spent calculation is incomparably better for the time you will need to spend on it after 3.0 compared to that in 2.4."

You clearly dont get the point here, where you still compare apples to oranges. You should stop comparing how many rolls someone needs to achieve a god roll module in 2.4 and 3.0. If we were comparing number of rolls for VIRGIN modules in the old and the new system then you posts would be relevant.
In your mind yes for a 2.4 god roll someone needs about 100-500 or more rolls (example) and for a 3.0 an EVEN BETTER module would need about 15-25 rolls. Stopping your comparison right over there and there you go, everything looks pretty, but what does that have to do with me or this thread and you keep saying it?
For the last time i 'll explain it. This thread is about BEING FAIR and about people that HAVE ALLREADY rolled their G5 modules MANY MANY TIMES OVER and the new system throws away that effort and asks them to ROLL EVEN MORE, just to maintain their level of engineering with the new standards.
No one said that the mods will be worse in the new system and no one asked the devs, to take back those benefits. You respond like i m trying to take back your precious 3.0 god rolls. I want them too just for you to know.

"So I assume PVP is a significant feature of your gameplay?"

Yes it was, back like a year ago but i stopped pvp because of the grind, what does that have to do with the thread? Besides combat ships, i also have rolled hundreds of times for a couple of racing ships, a couple of AX ships and one exploration ship where again ofc never got an fsd above 49.7 optimal mass. Using your logic, i should be happy that finally i will be able to get what i always wanted by just doing what... MORE THAN A THOUSAND extra rolls and just forget all my previous effort. Thats the conversion system that you are defending blindly.

 

[Maro-Val]

So that's self-inflicted grinding. It seems like you are missing the point. There's a new best, which is guaranteed to be the absolute best, which with a little more effort can be yours. Would you have preferred that FD keep the current system, but say, added a new Grade 6? One that would take potentially thousands of rolls to get?

It seems like what you really want is to keep others from getting the best, with less effort. If that's the case, you are playing the wrong game. Practically everything FD does reduces the effort. Credits are stupid-easy to earn these days. Long distance routing has made exploring significantly easier. More missions are on the board, so you don't have to keep reclogging to get some decent missions. The SRV scanner finally works properly, so you don't have to keep hunting for disappearing rocks to shoot. Etc...

Accept it or don't. Play the game or don't. Don't whine about how unfair it is, because that is futile. FD has made their decision and are unlikely to change it. If you're that unhappy, go find a game that you do enjoy playing.

You are saying that I:

1. Am probably missing the point, where clearly the opposite happens.
2. Dont know that with the new system we CAN get better modules with less RNG.
3. That I maybe want, instead of the new system, a G6 level of the old system, adding even more thousands of rolls, where in fact i will roll THOUSANDS in the upcomming system.
4. Want to keep others from getting the best.
5. Am playing the wrong game. (Oh sorry dad)
6. Should go and find a game that i enjoy. (Ok mommy)

From all the trolls out there, you must be in the top 3.

 

[Elan]

While it sucks to have to re-roll our mods, the new blueprints are SO much better that I'll certainly be upgrading all my ships.

 

[Red Anders]

"So I assume PVP is a significant feature of your gameplay?"[/B]

Yes it was, back like a year ago but i stopped pvp because of the grind, what does that have to do with the thread?

Umm, nothing other than the fact YOU referred to it by referencing your playstyle. Oh and all the stuff I said in the paragraph immediately after those words. Don't get all defensive, I was just saying that I understand (!) why ensuring you have top-ranked everything is so critical to you if PVP is your thing.

You're still going on with yourself as if I don't understand your issue, same as Devari is. I do get what you have already done, I do get how many more rolls you will need to do. I can only assume you read one word in twenty because there's no other way you could infer that from what I wrote. Did you miss the '17 ships including fully G5 Corvette and Cutter'? Or just ignore it because you'd rather just make up your own version of what I've done in-game and then attack your own fantasy construct?

Im not actually saying you should be 'happy' about having to do a bit more, I'm saying that on a scale of how this could have gone, we're about here:

CRAP |-------------------------------------------|---------| NOT THAT BAD

For an idea of what crap looks like, see 2.1. It's a significant improvement. You just don't feel you should have to do anything else at all because your mods now are relatively at the top of the heap compared to anybody else's mods today. I think when there are actual increases in stats to be had it is reasonable to expect people to make a relatively small amount of additional effort.

As for my 'precious' 3.0 god rolls, again I'm not saying 'zomfg 3.0 is the best thing FDev have ever done, it's literally perfect'. Sorry but if there's one sure way to make sure I just book you down as a clown and move on it's applying that kind of stupid binary logic where anything other than castigating FDev means I'm fellating them. I'm not actually that bothered about getting to boost my gear, I would have been perfectly fine with any equitable solution to the issue of gear imbalance but as I said, if you honestly expected a company with FDev's history of time sinks to just make sure all your stuff was maxed out in 3.0 it's your expectations that were unrealistic. It was never going to happen. I'm a realist.

I'm not 'blindly' defending anything. I'm saying it's reasonable. IN MY OPINION.

Oh and as for my employment situation, all that crap about helping companies to function and people making money on my back might have had some relevance if it wasn't for the fact that a) I work for the government and b) the reason I'm working today is that it's one of the three busiest weeks of the year for us and most of us are on contracts where we don't work Saturdays. This will be the second Saturday I've set foot in an office in thirteen years. Sadly we can't just hire a few hundred monkeys from a temp agency for a week, it's not the kind of job you can just rock up to and do.

Both you and Devari seem to think that if you just scream 'BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND' over and over again it will become true and everybody will agree with you. It's cute but it's also wrong.

 

[Kaltern]

What it sounds like to me, is those who spent a lot of time getting the best possible modules (and for some, this took a remarkably short amount of time due to it being very RNG), telling everyone that they deserve to still have the best possible modules becuase they already have them.

And, by the same token, those who don't have top rated modules don't deserve to be able to get ones BETTER than what these Godrolled modules are, because players wouldn't have spent as much time to get them.

That is the nature of gaming. And, in many cases, life. If anything, people should be pleased they have yet more work/play to do, to gain an even greater advantage. But that's not the issue is it. The issue is that these people EXPECT to not have to do any more. They've paid their dues, sacrificed hours of gameplay to get that last few %, to be able to proudly shout out that they have the best FSD, the most powerful power core... and when 3.0 hits.. they won't be able to do this anymore.

It's pretty much like when, for example, Everquest II had their Epic weapons. These took a fair amount of time and effort to acheive... and then Mythical weapons were introduced - a raid was required to upgrade Epic's to this new weapon. People initially complained, but eventually got on with it. Then..after a good few years, these too were made obsolete. The most powerful weapons in the game became less so. Stats were the same, but newer, better weapons became available. People cried, left, but the majority just carried on and adapted.

This is the way of gaming. Adapt, or die - as they say. Noone remains top tier for ever. Things move on. Eventually even these new module types will be superseeded by another, more powerful version, which may or may not require yet more grinding. Who knows.

All I do know, is that there are very, very few voices fighting the corner for those who don't feel it's fair people are going to be able to match their equipment level with less work. And at the end of the day.. that's really all that matters - your objections may be noted, but they will be ignored by those who matter.

And all the passive-aggressive denials are not going to change that.

 

[Maro-Val]

Umm, nothing other than the fact YOU referred to it by referencing your playstyle. Oh and all the stuff I said in the paragraph immediately after those words. Don't get all defensive, I was just saying that I understand (!) why ensuring you have top-ranked everything is so critical to you if PVP is your thing.

You're still going on with yourself as if I don't understand your issue, same as Devari is. I do get what you have already done, I do get how many more rolls you will need to do. I can only assume you read one word in twenty because there's no other way you could infer that from what I wrote. Did you miss the '17 ships including fully G5 Corvette and Cutter'? Or just ignore it because you'd rather just make up your own version of whjat I've done in-game and then attack your own fantasy construct?

Im not actually saying you should be 'happy' about having to do a bit more, I'm saying that on a scale of how this could have gone, we're about here:

CRAP |-------------------------------------------|---------| NOT THAT BAD

For an idea of what crap looks like, see 2.1. It's a significant improvement. You just don't feel you should have to do anything else at all because your mods now are relatively at the top of the heap compared to anybody else's mods today. I think when there are actual increases in stats to be had it is reasonable to expect people to make a relatively small amount of additional effort.

As for my 'precious' 3.0 god rolls, again I'm not saying 'zomfg 3.0 is the best thing FDev have ever done, it's literally perfect'. Sorry but if there's one sure way to make sure I just book you down as a clown and move on it's applying that kind of stupid binary logic where anything other than castigating FDev means I'm fellating them. I'm not actually that bothered about getting to boost my gear, I would have been perfectly fine with any equitable solution to the issue of gear imbalance but as I said, if you honestly expected a company with FDev's history of time sinks to just make sure all your stuff was maxed out in 3.0 it's your expectations that were unrealistic. It was never going to happen. I'm a realist.

I'm not 'blindly' defending anything. I'm saying it's reasonable. IN MY OPINION.

Oh and as for my employment situation, all that crap about helping companies to function and people making money on my back might have had some relevance if it wasn't for the fact that a) I work for the government and b) the reason I'm working today is that it's one of the three busiest weeks of the year for us and most of us are on contracts where we don't work Saturdays. This will be the second Saturday I've set foot in an office in thirteen years. Sadly we can't just hire a few hundred monkeys from a temp agency for a week, it's not the kind of job you can just rock up to and do.

Ok i get it. So since you say you understand the issue, how come like reasonable people, we dont just ask for a fair conversion, one that respects peoples hours spent? Why we have to settle again for the "ok-ish" or the "not so bad compared to previous"? Anyway i respect your opinion but i wouldnt call it reasonable, not in a million years. Or maybe reasonable as, not being able to deploy srv's if in multicrew. That kind of reasoning perhaps.

- I wont comment further on your work, as i honestly do respect other peoples jobs. But you should be the one putting an end to this specific joke, as you were the one started it, to make me look like a clown from the very beggining.

 

[Stealthie]

What it sounds like to me, is those who spent a lot of time getting the best possible modules (and for some, this took a remarkably short amount of time due to it being very RNG), telling everyone that they deserve to still have the best possible modules becuase they already have them.

And, by the same token, those who don't have top rated modules don't deserve to be able to get ones BETTER than what these Godrolled modules are, because players wouldn't have spent as much time to get them.

The funny thing is, one of my biggest concerns about 3.0 is that it might actually increase the disparity between the "have's" and the "have not's"
Up until now, it took some serious commitment (and/or luck) to create a proper flying death-machine whereas after 3.0 pretty-much anybody will be able to spend an evening hoovering up high-tier mat's and then go and convert them into everything they need to create a flying death-machine of their own. Guaranteed.

Even so, I don't grudge anybody the opportunity to do that, if that's what they want to do.

There's a certain irony to a bunch of people creating ships which they believe to be the best in the game, thus granting them an advantage over anybody they compete with in-game, and then crying at the prospect that they might now meet people who have an advantage over them.

And then there's the whole thing about "I've spent years, and thousands of rolls, creating all the mod's for my ships" but then apparently being totally unwilling to spend any more time, or rolls, to improve their ships even further.

"I bought a Lamborghini Countach back in the 1970s, when it was the fastest car in the world, I'm annoyed that isn't still the case 40 years later but I absolutely refuse to sell it and buy a Bugatti Veyron!!! [mad][mad][mad]"

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Ok i get it. So since you say you understand the issue, how come like reasonable people, we dont just ask for a fair conversion, one that respects peoples hours spent? Why we have to settle again for the "ok-ish" or the "not so bad compared to previous"? Anyway i respect your opinion but i wouldnt call it reasonable, not in a million years. Or maybe reasonable as, not being able to deploy srv's if in multicrew. That kind of reasoning perhaps.

- I wont comment further on your work, as i honestly do respect other peoples jobs. But you should be the one putting an end to this specific joke, as you were the one started it, to make me look like a clown from the very beggining.

FD have applied the fairest conversion they possibly can. None whatsoever.
They haven't touched your modules. They will be exactly the same as they are now, and do exactly the same as they do now.

You now have choices.

Do nothing at all, your ship functions exactly the way you wanted it to for the last two years.
Build new modules in the new system from scratch.
Convert modules to a somewhat arbitrary max G4 and then work on the new and improved G5.

I have absolutely no problem with FD choosing max G4 as their arbitrary conversion point.
Because the scales have shifted, a max new G4 is equivalent to a somewhat better than average old G5 roll.

I certainly do not expect FD to waste a significant amount of time trying to figure out how good an existing G5 is or how much effort has been spent obtaining it.
Firstly, how good a module is is based on RNG.
Yes, on spending more rolls will, on average, make it better but every player's experience with the system is entirely different and there will be people all along the Bell curve. Many great modules with few rolls, to sucky modules after many many rolls.
Secondly, the basis of the upgrades has significantly changed because of the changes to secondaries, calculating an accurate conversion would not be that simple, and getting it wrong would result in even bigger salt-piles

What FD have done is actually very fair.
They are not going to touch your precious modules that you spent so much time on. The game will still accomodate every weird and wonderful outlier that the RNG came up with.

You now have the same opportunity as every other player to participate in the new system, or not.

Knowing what is going to happen, I've taken advantage of it and rolled a number of modules with 1 G5 roll.
The conversion will likely make many of these modules better without even starting on the new G5.

That became a much better use of my time than the futility of railing against FD for their cruddy design and lack of vision.

 

[Blackcompany]

Its amazing to see so many people being ok despite their efforts being thrown out the window, just because the devs are so lazy to come up with a decent conversion system and just because the numbers will be better than before.

We are sheep myself included, and we deserve more things like power play, cqc and multicrew. Give us more.

Supporting fdev on this point is the same as supporting EA. Sure, you go ahead and take TIME to work toward something. Meanwhile, we will just invalidate your effort, either by loot crates...or by moving the goal posts after the fact.

Support the G5 to G4 conversion is Defending the indefensible. It's a shady, disrespectful, reprehensible act that completely disregarded time spent. I have never before been outright ashamed to have spent money supporting a developer.

Congrats, fdev. I'll no longer publicly admit to playing your game. And future financial support us highly unlikely. If you to treat your players in this vile a manner, you frankly don't deserve to have any.

 

[Maro-Val]

FD have applied the fairest conversion they possibly can. None whatsoever.
They haven't touched your modules. They will be exactly the same as they are now, and do exactly the same as they do now.

You now have choices.

Do nothing at all, your ship functions exactly the way you wanted it to for the last two years.
Build new modules in the new system from scratch.
Convert modules to a somewhat arbitrary max G4 and then work on the new and improved G5.

I have absolutely no problem with FD choosing max G4 as their arbitrary conversion point.
Because the scales have shifted, a max new G4 is equivalent to a somewhat better than average old G5 roll.

I certainly do not expect FD to waste a significant amount of time trying to figure out how good an existing G5 is or how much effort has been spent obtaining it.
Firstly, how good a module is is based on RNG.
Yes, on spending more rolls will, on average, make it better but every player's experience with the system is entirely different and there will be people all along the Bell curve. Many great modules with few rolls, to sucky modules after many many rolls.
Secondly, the basis of the upgrades has significantly changed because of the changes to secondaries, calculating an accurate conversion would not be that simple, and getting it wrong would result in even bigger salt-piles

What FD have done is actually very fair.
They are not going to touch your precious modules that you spent so much time on. The game will still accomodate every weird and wonderful outlier that the RNG came up with.

You now have the same opportunity as every other player to participate in the new system, or not.

Knowing what is going to happen, I've taken advantage of it and rolled a number of modules with 1 G5 roll.
The conversion will likely make many of these modules better without even starting on the new G5.

That became a much better use of my time than the futility of railing against FD for their cruddy design and lack of vision.

Awwww i didnt thought of it that way. How fair it is indeed. I must be an idiot.

Oh you did roll some G5s using the system that we have now, just to avoid the G1 to G4 grind i see. Probably you dont understand how pathetic that sounds for your argument. But hey.. knock yourself out.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Awwww i didnt thought of it that way. How fair it is indeed. I must be an idiot.

Oh you did roll some G5s using the system that we have now, just to avoid the G1 to G4 grind i see. Probably you dont understand how pathetic that sounds for your argument. But hey.. knock yourself out.

Hey, I never said Engineering was ideal, either in its current or its new implementation. See my posts in the Feedback Forum.
I do however accept the inevitable and adapt accordingly.

Feel free to continue sulking about it while everyone else gets on with the new version of the game.

 

[Maro-Val]

Hey, I never said Engineering was ideal, either in its current or its new implementation. See my posts in the Feedback Forum.
I do however accept the inevitable and adapt accordingly.

Feel free to continue sulking about it while everyone else gets on with the new version of the game.

You never said engineering was ideal, but the conversion to the new system, couldnt be more fair. Make up your mind.

"While everyone else in my small perfect bubble, gets on.."

There.. fixed it for you. Next time speak for yourself.

 

[jonluv]

As an old thicko ——will my G5 Cutter still do 25+ lay after next weeks update?

 

[DaveB]

Ah, so much butthurt and such sweet salt...

How is this thread any different from those associated with every other MMO in history that rebalanced, nerfed or even just outright deleted "stuff they did wrong and had to rework later"

Sorry, Mr I-did-the-grind-to-90th-level wizard, your "orb of godlike invincibility" is now a "bottle of rainbow unicorn-farts" and does nothing but unaggro you for three seconds and it only holds 3 of them.

 

[Dommarraa]

As a total aside, the weather forecast for Cambridge on Wednesday is snow.
Just sayin