Engineering is one of the worst elements of any game I've ever played

Raumfahrer Spiff · Mar 1, 2018

You know how in like Skyrim or Resident Evil, you often have to find an item, hold on to it, modify it, then eventually use it? Engineering is kinda like that for me. I only do an Engineering circuit once every few months when I get a new ship or try out a new build. During the months away, I'm playing normally while gathering mats in the background (which has only gotten better with the new per cap and traders) then when I get to the engineers, I only have to do about an hour or 2 of searching for the last few mats I need to finish out the recipes. If it's a fresh ship that I'm doing from scratch, I often don't even sweat it if it gets to G5 or not, G4 is more than adequate for survivability until I can come back in a little while with a few extra mats. Each individual ship build is a kind of an on-going progression, just like how you can't jump straight into level 60 gear in WoW or other MMOs.

Majic-12 · Mar 1, 2018

Lanceor said:
This is the second prediction from last week that has come true...

You left out the inevitable plague of poisonous toads, so I call dibs on that one.

Enderby · Mar 1, 2018

Engineering = spinning out thin content.

Therefore, unfortunately, it’s very much needed.

LeoBartlet · Mar 1, 2018

Red Anders said:
Well that and the time I chased your Asp out of a CZ in my Vulture

Oh I remember that.

Was that the time I shadowed you for 10 minutes without you noticing?

Good Death · Mar 1, 2018

I love the new engineering system. Its freekin amazeballz!

Six6VI · Mar 1, 2018

The much more elegant organic Fibonacci sequence would be, you now...

1,1,2,3,5 instead of 1,1-2,2-3,3-4,9-12

Equal opportunity plus equal outcome, MINUS silly waste of materials

Wasp0 · Mar 1, 2018

Whilst not A PvP'er myself, i fully agree with the OP, and i just don't get the veiled ugly responses some posters on here are giving him. Back off Cmdrs, he is actually right you do need engineering to PvP, and engineering from a scratch point is a grind. These are facts.

My 3rd Account cmdr is starting from scratch and starting from the beginning again is a RPITA!

Sysmon · Mar 1, 2018

V'larr said:
Don't settle for less, always seek to improve upon what you've got!

That's rather subjective though. One persons idea of improvement may not be the same as that of others. So rather than resort to whining until we get what we want, why not be constructive about it, take it as the vision of the developer, and go do something else if it is not going to be our liking?

S

n13L5 · Mar 1, 2018

wesmacdon said:
Another moan about engineering...

I REALLY wish FD would just decide engineers is a monotobous unenjoyable part of the game and remove it entirely. The only reason I'm engineering my ship is because other players are doing it and I don't want to be left behind incapable of competing. It's literally ruining the game for me. I'm trying to get through engineering so I can enjoy playing the game again. That can't be a good thing surely? How is that a good way to execute a game?

"The game is fairly great, let's stick something soul-crushingly boring and repetitive in it so people don't actually enjoy the experience of playing it." Why???

I love min-maxing stuff in games, so I like the basic idea of engineering.
The only problem is the ~18,000 materials you need in 3.0 to engineer every component in your Federal Corvette.

Yeah, I'm not kidding - it is near that number - count every gun and every component and the Effects...
Especially toward the end of grade 5, the game grinds you for ever more of your most precious materials. And you can't call it "good enough", because unless its "completed", you can't put your experimental effect on it.

I don't hate collecting resources in general. FD just totally overdid it on the requirements, for fear we'd finish too soon and start complaining about the game being shallow again.

[DOOK] Droogie · Mar 1, 2018

Six6VI said:
The much more elegant organic Fibonacci sequence would be, you now...

1,1,2,3,5 instead of 1,1-2,2-3,3-4,9-12

Equal opportunity plus equal outcome, MINUS silly waste of materials

Black
Then
White are
All I see
In my infancy
Red and yellow then came to be
Reaching out to me
Lets me see

Had to throw the Tool lyrics in there. The song uses the Fibonacci sequence

Six6VI · Mar 1, 2018

n13L5 said:
I love min-maxing stuff in games, so I like the basic idea of engineering.
The only problem is the ~18,000 materials you need in 3.0 to engineer every component in your Federal Corvette.

Yeah, I'm not kidding - it is near that number - count every gun and every component and the Effects...
Especially toward the end of grade 5, the game grinds you for ever more of your most precious materials. And you can't call it "good enough", because unless its "completed", you can't put your experimental effect on it.

I don't hate collecting resources in general. FD just totally overdid it on the requirements, for fear we'd finish too soon and start complaining about the game being shallow again.

Post 3.0 you can apply the experimental after the first G1 mod and...

It will stick there until you decide to change or remove it

Crank Larson · Mar 1, 2018

n13L5 said:
The only problem is the ~18,000 materials you need in 3.0 to engineer every component in your Federal Corvette.

Yeah, I'm not kidding - it is near that number - count every gun and every component and the Effects...

It is nowhere near that number.

To be really pessimistic, let's assume it take 40 materials to grade 5 a module (though it should really take less than 20). Let's add another 10 materials for effect. Assuming you engineer everything, you've got about 35 upgrades to do. So, what is 35x50? It's rather less than 18000 - you are at least a factor of ten out.

-VR- Max Factor · Mar 1, 2018

Wasp0 said:
Whilst not A PvP'er myself, i fully agree with the OP, and i just don't get the veiled ugly responses some posters on here are giving him. Back off Cmdrs, he is actually right you do need engineering to PvP, and engineering from a scratch point is a grind. These are facts.

My 3rd Account cmdr is starting from scratch and starting from the beginning again is a RPITA!

I don't think anyone disagrees that it is a grind for people that only want to do PvP. But i have very little sympathy. The game is 95% PvE/indirect PvP. But the OP want's to ignore that and concentrate on the 5% direct PvP that you can do in the game. It just doesn't work like that.

It would be like me playing Witcher 3 and complaining that it isn't a single player space trading game. I bought the game for what it is, to play in the ED universe. How other people want to play the game is up to them, but they shouldn't expect the game to change just to suit there playstyle when the game isn't really based around it in the first place (I am not saying you can't PvP though).

Hexcaliber · Mar 1, 2018

Unless you fly in open and regularly pvp, there is no need for engineering your ship, stock is still perfectly adequate for killing npc's, trading, et al. And I don't know any pvper who will not move heaven and earth in order to compete. On the off chance you fly in open but avoid pvp lowering your fsd cycle time would make sense too, but is hardly a chore to do. Applying any other engineer mods in any other scenario is simply for convenience.

Six6VI · Mar 1, 2018

Hexcaliber said:
Unless you fly in open and regularly pvp, there is no need for engineering your ship, stock is still perfectly adequate for killing npc's, trading, et al. And I don't know any pvper who will not move heaven and earth in order to compete. On the off chance you fly in open but avoid pvp lowering your fsd cycle time would make sense too, but is hardly a chore to do. Applying any other engineer mods in any other scenario is simply for convenience.

If you mean the "Faster Boot Sequence" FSD mod, it only boots faster, from being off.

It does not reduce the charge time, and gets ridiculously hot, for no apparent benefit.

Troy_McClure · Mar 1, 2018

& all of the countless hrs & marketing will have been a complete waste of dev resources.....yes, I can see Frontier removing 'Engineers' entirely & basically admitting total incompetence...'good call!

Weps · Mar 1, 2018

Max Factor said:
I don't think anyone disagrees that it is a grind for people that only want to do PvP. But i have very little sympathy. The game is 95% PvE/indirect PvP. But the OP want's to ignore that and concentrate on the 5% direct PvP that you can do in the game. It just doesn't work like that.

It would be like me playing Witcher 3 and complaining that it isn't a single player space trading game. I bought the game for what it is, to play in the ED universe. How other people want to play the game is up to them, but they shouldn't expect the game to change just to suit there playstyle when the game isn't really based around it in the first place (I am not saying you can't PvP though).

Sorry, but this is where I have to disagree with you. Where was it established that the game is 95% PvE/indirect PvP?

And even if a large portion of that percentage actually refers to indirect PvP, why would it be ok for a player working against another player to be at a disadvantage?

Here's the thing: this game has been sold mainly as a multiplayer game, it has MMO stapled all over it even if barely meets the criteria, the devs call it that and practically beg people to play more in Open, its trailers all depict playing with friends, its foundation relies on players all influencing the same BGS and you have to be connected to the servers even if you play alone! And so on and so on...

If this game would have been marketed as a single player game with a multiplayer menu option, I doubt that it would have reached 30% of its current total sales. Many would not have touched it with a ten foot pole, I know I would not have bothered buying it. The players put off by RNGineers imbalance have bought a game with the MMO tag on the box and they expect a minimum of design principles to reflect that.

And about the Witcher 3... that game has been marketed as a single player game, and it has delivered much more that we ever hoped, and this is why it's probably the best game of all times. This game has made lots of promises during different stages of development, but has failed to yet fulfill the vast majority of them.

Funny · Mar 1, 2018

Ayway, consensus is probably that material gathering could be improved a ton. Some people really dislike it right now (myself included), others tolerate it, and other like it (?). Either way though, the entire mat gathering probably feels like a missed opportunity to everyone, one to enhance aspects of th egame that were already there, and to add entirely new forms of gameplay that involve more than just time sinks.

Blackcompany · Mar 1, 2018

wesmacdon said:
Another moan about engineering...

I REALLY wish FD would just decide engineers is a monotobous unenjoyable part of the game and remove it entirely. The only reason I'm engineering my ship is because other players are doing it and I don't want to be left behind incapable of competing. It's literally ruining the game for me. I'm trying to get through engineering so I can enjoy playing the game again. That can't be a good thing surely? How is that a good way to execute a game?

"The game is fairly great, let's stick something soul-crushingly boring and repetitive in it so people don't actually enjoy the experience of playing it." Why???

Agree completely. Mat gathering is a chore. Scanning wakes? Driving round shooting rocks? Really? That's the best you could do?

Then add the RNG if mat drops, and the uselessness mat brokers.

And now? Grind each module from 1-5? No thanks.

And tech brokers are ANOTHER mat grind. That's just insulting.

Still no effort at persistence. At meaningful interaction. At systems supporting emergent game play. Not even an attempt. But they can make more grind.

Tried 3.0 for an hour before logging off to do something that was actually fun instead.

Blackcompany · Mar 1, 2018

wesmacdon said:
Aaand there it is. The stock response for anyone who dares criticise any part of ED. I paid for the game the same as you. I have every right to want to be able to enjoy it as well. If you don't have constructive contribution then it's best you don't engage in the thread tbh.

Yep. Page one of the White Knight Playbook. Wasn't even surprised.

But then, I also wasn't surprised by the lackluster player numbers one day after the update, either...must be a whole lot of people this game just isn't for.