3.0 Crime rules leads to marooning

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

Well mainly I just think you ought to have access to the shipyard (and maybe outfitting?) when using anonymous protocols. I mean if you can't switch between ships and modules then what's the point of having "hot ships" and "hot modules" in the first place? Sure, charge a premium to access these facilities when you're anonymous, lock everything else out, etc; but give us an opportunity to screw ourselves over in more in-depth ways than just making it "game over man" as soon as you have a single bounty on you.

I thought part of the whole C&P overhaul, and the attachment of bounties to ships and modules rather than CMDRs, was to allow for a sort of "descent into crime" situation where you could have a ship that is wanted in progressively more systems and you have to navigate a progressively more treacherous path in order to avoid getting caught (and then of course when you *do* get caught the penalties can be huge). But if you just throw out a full-on roadblock at the 1st 400cr bounty, there's nowhere else to go from there is there? It's just "whelp should have planned ahead, better kill yourself" The End.

I agree that it would be nice to have options other then suicide by cop, but I disagree with being able to acess nornal outfitting and shipyard services while using anonymous protocols, especially with all of the lore around tight registration and tracking of ship's transponders.

Honestly, I think that is the solution. When your ship is hot and you're wanted, you have to pay an outrageous fee to a shady contact for a new transponder, which effectively wipes your identity. The whole scenario ocurrs in Reclamation

 

[Suvi Anwar]

That's a totally erroneous analogy and you know it. If you don't, please contemplate it a little longer.

Please, explain just what is so erroneous about my analogy. I believe it is spot on. We are talking about a wreckless weapons discharge bounty, not a murder bounty. The analogy I used fits because the CMDR is not a hitman that got caught and is evading the law. He got tagged for accidental fire on a clean ship.

So again, please explain to me the error in my analogy, I'll wait.

 

[jasonbarron]

Please, explain just what is so erroneous about my analogy. I believe it is spot on. We are talking about a wreckless weapons discharge bounty, not a murder bounty. The analogy I used fits because the CMDR is not a hitman that got caught and is evading the law. He got tagged for accidental fire on a clean ship.

So again, please explain to me the error in my analogy, I'll wait.

I was tempted to ask him the same thing, because I thought your comparison was pretty spot on myself, so I wonder what we're missing.

 

[concentric]

Read the OP again he was not able to jump far enough.

Not sure if you're serious here.
If so, think again, then you might get his point.
Otherwise I put 1G Pulse Lasers in the huge hardpoints of my Corvette and ask for increasing all weapons' damage tenfold because they aren't strong enough...

 

[concentric]

Doubling will not happen. It doesn't need it. OP used an E rated Fsd and lost his gamble.
You want bigger jump ranges?
That what Engineers are for.

+1. Totally agree!

 

[kofeyh]

Not sure if you're serious here.

Commander could not leave the system; the game has no issue allowing one to fit a low rated FSD. In fact, all ships start with a class E. Many stations have only E modules, in limited sizes, because Frontier invented artificial scarcity because silly people think this somehow improves the experience. The commander eventually had to use assisted suicide to leave a system, because the developer removed all other methods for them to do so. Outfitting, no. Ship transport, no. IF in the same system, no. You can leave the logical fallacy at the door, it's not required, and quite quite foolish.

We have a game, that basically says "assisted suicide" is the solution to crime, or just go clear your save, maybe? There's no way Sandy will leave that as is. It's just daft.

And the Anaconda, one of the hardest hitting ships, has the highest possible jump range available for any combat ship; either in full battle dress, or stripped bare. And yet this is protected by commanders to a level that borders on insanity. The entire thing is daft. I'm sorry; but the "don't change muh jump range" argument is one of the worst, in a game with an expanding bubble, and billions of individual systems.

And lastly; Sandy just turning stuff off, which was one of the top suggestions (from the usual muppets, no less) has done untold damage in the process. This, from a developer that is also capable of greatness - the new planet colouration and generation, as a counterpoint, is sodding AMAZING, they are SO GOOD. I'm exploring and the work they have done, is frankly majestic AF.

But Frontier are persisting in this notion that they have to funnel commanders into very very narrow outcomes; force compliance. We will do what they want. Or else; in a game that is otherwise just outstanding. I am terrified about quarter 4. Because this hilarity is coming to exploration. Arguing jump range, for super-range-starved ships, is about as constructive as kicking ladders out from under people. Which, is ironic, because this is ostensibly what the new C&P changes do; kick the ladder out from under people.

I can't see that being the truely intended outcome. Just a set of quirks to otherwise solid changes.

 

[concentric]

@ kofeyh:
I wasn't defending the new C&P nor did I deny that there are questionable design choices in ED (in fact, imho there are lots of those).
Just saying that OP's situation is no argument for doubling jump ranges across the board. It wouldn't even prevent situations like these.
Plus, engineering 3.0 should've considerably increased the jump range of 99% of engineered ships out there anyway.

 

[Bortas]

doubling jump ranges across the board.

It's not even just a bad idea... in fact it's harmful. What's worst now will still be the worst after doubling it. The gap would just be even larger. 17 vs. 70 would become 34 vs. 140.

If anything the playing field should be made more level... ships with ridiculously low jumprange should be improved, while the ones with the best jumprange can stay unchanged.

 

[kofeyh]

I wasn't defending the new C&P nor did I deny that there are questionable design choices in ED (in fact, imho there are lots of those).

Sure. The point is, the developer has decided the best course of action is to funnel people into a no-win scenario. Frontier is rapidly removing almost every way a commander can self-determine an outcome, in a game that proudly shouts "blaze your own trail". Engineering will only add up to 60% of the existing range. 60% of 3LY, is +1.6LY, for example. It's not addressing the issue, if the closest star is 7.6 LY.

Has the developer looked at how players interact, and use the creative solutions used at times, as part of the framework? No. Just remove all the doors, and force the player to seek assisted suicide. There's very little sanity involved in the mechanics at this point.

And, people are still getting offended over jump range. This, frankly, should be the least of our issues, 4 years on. Ships getting stuck in a system forcing the player to eat re-buy -- which teleports the player outside of the system -- just so they can then go pay a sodding bounty (that may be considerably less than the re-buy) makes the entire thing a mockery.

I'm sure Sandy and the team will be taking a very close look at how this is actually working. Because intended or not? It's broken as hell.

edited.

 

[kofeyh]

If anything the playing field should be made more level... ships with ridiculously low jumprange should be improved, while the ones with the best jumprange can stay unchanged.

Bingo!

 

[gooddoc]

Can't see why the OP's thread title is...
[h=2]3.0 Crime rules leads to marooning[/h]
When it should clearly be

'Due to my own stupidity, it's led to my own marooning'


Anyone who fits the lowest FSD they can find is asking for problems....you can't blame the game for that!

 

[kofeyh]

Anyone who fits the lowest FSD they can find is asking for problems....you can't blame the game for that!

The module class, isn't so much the issue; it's that ship transfer is completely ignorant of that, and then so is the new C&P limitation. No-one is arguing that there's some culpability on the commander (least of all the commander); the question is how did we get to a point where the C&P and ship transport mechanics are completely ignorant of FSD jump range.

Transport doesn't warn; new C&P is ignorant of ship jump range (regardless of the module used). This is just a recipe for frustration.

 

[Bortas]

The module class, isn't so much the issue; it's that ship transfer is completely ignorant of that, and then so is the new C&P limitation. No-one is arguing that there's some culpability on the commander (least of all the commander); the question is how did we get to a point where the C&P and ship transport mechanics are completely ignorant of FSD jump range.

Transport doesn't warn; new C&P is ignorant of ship jump range (regardless of the module used). This is just a recipe for frustration.

According to https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/416981-Hot-Ships-and-Bounties the issue discussed in this thread will get resolved in one of the next updates:

Bounties that do not include the crime of murder can always be paid off at security contacts.

So unless you murder someone, there's no way to become stuck due to a bounty. Murder by accident seems rather unlikely to happen

 

[gooddoc]

But the game doesn't warn me that if i jump into a high rez zone with no shields & only a 1F Pulse laser, that I'm not going to last long, does it.

This game's about planning ahead.

The changes to the C&P have been long coming & thoroughly discussed on the forums. When implemented players knew that services would become unavailable if players fell foul of the law.

It's up to each player to be sure what they are doing doesn't maroon them in a system.

 

[gooddoc]

According to https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/416981-Hot-Ships-and-Bounties the issue discussed in this thread will get resolved in one of the next updates:



So unless you murder someone, there's no way to become stuck due to a bounty. Murder by accident seems rather unlikely to happen

I'd much rather see the Dev's time put to better use in the game, rather than keep having to counteract stupid!

 

[galahad2069]

Murder by accident seems rather unlikely to happen

Not only unlikely. It's by definition impossible.

Murder and manslaughter are not the same thing:
https://www.encyclopedia.com/scienc...s-transcripts-and-maps/murder-vs-manslaughter

 

[B1rdy]

But the game doesn't warn me that if i jump into a high rez zone with no shields & only a 1F Pulse laser, that I'm not going to last long, does it.

This game's about planning ahead.

The changes to the C&P have been long coming & thoroughly discussed on the forums. When implemented players knew that services would become unavailable if players fell foul of the law.

It's up to each player to be sure what they are doing doesn't maroon them in a system.

So, you are fine, that a player has to commit suicide in order to keep on playing? How gamey is that?

 

[XW_Ziggy]

So unless you murder someone, there's no way to become stuck due to a bounty. Murder by accident seems rather unlikely to happen

Actually, Murder by accident is much easier than you'd think. In a HAZREZ you typically have wings of pirates attacking a mining NPC and they will gladly fly between you and the wanted criminals you are trying to defend it from.

The problem is that if a stray shot causes a reckless discharge fine - and that's a fine, not a bounty, you are still given a murder bounty if an entirely different set of pirates murder that NPC behind your back five minutes after the first fight - because you are tagged as doing damage to that NPC between it being spawned and it being murdered.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

The most daft thing about C&P the way it is is right now is being locked out of taking care of any bounty in the system that issued it.
It's akin to;

Police officer writes a ticket/summons for speeding and wreckless driving. Driver goes to the local court house but can't get in the door to answer the charge/pay the fine, and is told by the Clerk that they aren't welcome there. Driver then has to drive to the next county over and see THEIR Judge to pay the fine for some other county.

Its g STUPID!!!!

Please, explain just what is so erroneous about my analogy. I believe it is spot on. We are talking about a wreckless weapons discharge bounty, not a murder bounty. The analogy I used fits because the CMDR is not a hitman that got caught and is evading the law. He got tagged for accidental fire on a clean ship.

So again, please explain to me the error in my analogy, I'll wait.

We're not talking about a fine as might be issued by a traffic cop, but a bounty in the context of ED. At present you can't pay them off by legitimate means as you would a traffic infringement, but via Interstellar Factors which is a back-door unofficial service akin to the black market in star ports.

You are not going to the legitimate office of law in another jurisdiction to pay the bounty, but rather to a relatively lawless jurisdiction which allows you to access this back-door IF service. The only reason you need to travel to do this is when there is no such service in this system where you incurred the bounty.

It is right and proper that bounties (as opposed to fines) should not be payable by legitimate means in any jurisdiction that issued them because by definition in ED, a bounty means you're marked for death. Only your ships destruction can make amends, unless you can make your way to the unofficial 'ask-no-questions' IF service in any system (either in the system that issued the bounty if you're lucky or well prepared, or a different system otherwise).

I understand this will change in a future patch though, and you'll be able to pay off small non-murder bounties legitimately without IF. I disagree with this move because it makes such bounties indistinguishable from fines and so they may as well be classified as fines.

Thanks for waiting.

 

[El Grillo]

Great game design. Punish players as much as humanly possible for making simple mistakes that are notoriously easy to make (i.e. accidentally hitting AI ships that blindly fly through your lasers when you're in dogfights).