Devs are way ahead, they announced they are looking into solutions. Also splitting up does not work as it needs to be seen how each element of system impacts others.
Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed
- Thread starter Maro-Val
- Start date
Devs are way ahead, they announced they are looking into solutions. Also splitting up does not work as it needs to be seen how each element of system impacts others.
thanks, that's a fairly good effort. as always the devil is in the details: powerplay exemptions, and the hot ship thing, plus modules, plus how the value of fines and bounties is affected. i guess what constitutes a crime (aka, the law) is a different issue, but also good to know for a newb.
really, good effort.
Watched vid, well more like listened to it in bed with flu..
Heared a very well rounded pros and cons comentary about the CP system.
It appears to me at least it has more cons than pros, and OA did what he normaly does and saw it from both sides and then as stated more than once gave his personal opinion.
Heared a very well rounded pros and cons comentary about the CP system.
It appears to me at least it has more cons than pros, and OA did what he normaly does and saw it from both sides and then as stated more than once gave his personal opinion.
I don't really agree that the new CnP is too complicated, its quite simple and easy to understand once someone explained it to you - Which is the main problem of it, its nowhere explained in the game. I got some bountys in 3.0 and didn't have any trouble but without reading beforehand the changes to it and just using ingame information I maybe would have been pretty lost as to what to do.
But for the faults it has and the tweaks it needs its way better then what we had before, all in all a very good change.
But for the faults it has and the tweaks it needs its way better then what we had before, all in all a very good change.
C&P has flaws.
Exactly right. Overall I am not against the new system but things like having to go out of system to pay are $200 fine is absurd. Also, stuff like getting charged for what you pilot does makes no sense. Furthermore, I have been accidentally shot by the police many times and they never get a bounty so there is another inconsistency that could be fixed if accidental shootings were just a minor fine payable anywhere. Another thing that wasn't mentioned was the problem where griefers fly into the path mining lasers to get the miners flagged for assault, and then they kill them. this also needs a fix.
Powderpanic
Banned
Please tell this to the majority of the community who scream "GRIEFER" the moment a lazer strikes them.
Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing
This is the only impact the new system has had on me. All Scan missions now require a trip to IF to pay off the bounty which means a hop to a nearby system dock, pay fine, hop back to the source system to cash in the mission. It's not a massive thing, but it is a boring inconvenience that can only be avoided by not taking the mission. There's no brains or skill or clever mechanic that I can employ to avoid this.
Wouldn't it be great if I could set up a stealth ship, equip it with an SRV built for infiltration (no cargo, no weaps perhaps, but equipped with a time limited cloaking device)? Instead I either take the Python and try to chain a few of these together so I can pay off all the fines at once, or, because I occasionally get bored of always flying the Python, I just don't take them anymore...
Deleted member 38366
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I think tiny/minor offenses (= accidents) could be handled that way.
Technically, it could be as easy as paying that ticket via Inbox.
You or your SLF accidentally hit someone wrong, or you touched another Vessel. But your local Reputation is i.e. Cordial or better.
*bing* Inbox Message appears, telling you about the small Fine and offers you to pay it off right there.
You're a good guy around, they like you and tell you they know it wasn't hostile intent. So with a single click from your inbox you can fix the issue right there.
I'd say that'd work like a charm for small Fines aka little accidents and makes you benefit from some local Reputation.
The new system is far too complex. I think this makes tweaking things harder for FD as well.
I don't even try and explain the new C&P system to newbies because I can't.
I don't even try and explain the new C&P system to newbies because I can't.
i dont try it too. Because understand c&p system need full-time job.
It makes far more sense than being able to commit murder and then just simply pay off a small fine at the nearest station to become clean again
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It makes far more sense than being able to commit murder and then just simply pay off a small fine at the nearest station to become clean again
it makes far more sense pay money for that, than anything else, because money is important, you buy ships, modules, ammo, re-buys for money. Dont search for real world logic here, its a game.
Also dont forget that would be another source of money sink and its good. For example pay 10 million per murder is pretty satisfying, and players think twice.
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Not if you're a billionaire. It also makes for dull criminal gameplay. Being an outlaw should actually mean something; it should be risky, dangerous, and fun. It should be something that you think twice about before heading down that path. The new C&P system is a significant move towards that. They just need to make it more rewarding now and make anarchy systems more interesting.
Perhaps because he can see what the rest of us see that is seemingly not evident to some people and that is that the game sucks right now and FDev are clueless as to what game play is. I'm not sure why anyone would have an issue with a video pointing out obvious and illogical flaws in a game they play, either.
Here’s what happened to me:
I was working a compromised navigation beacon and scanned a ship. He was a WANTED NPC so I targeted him and fired. Before my first volley hit and we were “technically” engaged in combat he had apparently dropped a heat sink just before I found him and was no longer targeted when my volley hit.
Oh I hit him alright, except now I was the bad guy because His heat sink cleared out my scan as if he was a “brand new” NPC. Then I got hit for assault. Luckily it was just some MC fire and did not instantly kill him otherwise I would have been hit for murder...even though it was the same wanted npc.
To FDEV:
If you need a flow chart to explain something, you’re doing it wrong.
If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
Last, keep it simple.
I was working a compromised navigation beacon and scanned a ship. He was a WANTED NPC so I targeted him and fired. Before my first volley hit and we were “technically” engaged in combat he had apparently dropped a heat sink just before I found him and was no longer targeted when my volley hit.
Oh I hit him alright, except now I was the bad guy because His heat sink cleared out my scan as if he was a “brand new” NPC. Then I got hit for assault. Luckily it was just some MC fire and did not instantly kill him otherwise I would have been hit for murder...even though it was the same wanted npc.
To FDEV:
If you need a flow chart to explain something, you’re doing it wrong.
If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
Last, keep it simple.
^Yes, to all of this. Plus some better ingame info and perhaps find a way to pay off friendly fire fines on the spot - if that could even be possible. In the meantime, I hate to admit it, but I lean towards Vin's attitude towards the new system and the recent rant posts - the new C&P is actually simpler to understand and manage than the previous one, and the consequences more balanced (more refined fine-bounty distinction pending).
Actually, you seem to have this completely backwards. This was implemented to close an existing, oft used, and utterly absurd loophole which had rendered any fines, legacy fines, or bounties utterly irrelevant and instantly cleanable anywhere for next to nothing. We can argue all day about the RL logic of bounties attached to 'hot ships', but the game reason was explained & discussed ad nauseum during FF.
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If you find it complex now, just wait until all the holes in it have been patched up with extra rules.
I agree with this.
Honestly, I'm not sure how it should be implemented but I think there should be, perhaps, 3 "levels" of punishment.
1) Fines - For trivial offences. A cop ship shows up, you get told to throttle-down, get scanned and then get an inbox message allowing you to pay the fine.
2) Community Service - For high-level non-violent offences and minor violent offences. Cop ship pulls you over and tells you to report to a local station and do missions to pay your debt to society.
3) Destruction of assets - For major violent offences. You're going to get ATR ships coming after you in the jurisdiction where you committed the crime and BHers coming after you as well.
For all the above, you'd get, say, 36 hours to comply with the terms of the punishment. Failure to do so would result in the offence being elevated to the next level.
In level 1 & 2 scenarios there'd be no lethal response. There might, perhaps, be reduced station services offered at stations where the involved faction is the controlling one.
For level 1 offences, maybe it could just be that you're denied access to the commodities market and mission-boards. People don't want to do business with you until you pay your fine.
For level 2 offences it'd be the same, except that the mission-board would provide you with the missions you need to complete to pay your debt to society.
For level 3 offences, the value of the ship you were flying when you committed the crime would be used to decide how extensive the punishment would be, as well as the number of crimes you commit.
If you're flying a billion-credit Corvette when you murder somebody then the ATR will keep on coming after you until they've destroyed a proportionate amount of your assets.
If you swap to a cheap ship and it gets destroyed, they keep coming after you until the debt has been paid fully. No sideycide exploits.
I'd also suggest that committing a crime automatically reduces your rep' with a faction proportionally and that it would be possible to reduce the level of a crime by working to restore your rep' with that faction.
So, for example, if you commit a murder and you're sick of getting hassled by ATR ships and BHers then you can find a system where the appropriate faction has a presence, do missions for that faction and it'll increase your rank (perhaps at a slower rate) until your level 3 crime is reduced to level 2 or even level 1, at which point you can take the required action to pay it off.
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