PvP PvE'ers of Solo/PG, just *why* are you okay with NPCs "interfering" but a player is Hell incarnate?

[Deleted member 38366]

Tell that to my pal who lost a cool half-bil in a Python (in an arranged fight no less... other guys brought a KWS to a "friendly" 2v2. That both of us missed it is yet another reason not to drink and fly that I plan to ignore completely).

The attackers reported they each got 24 mil, BTW (we're still on friendly terms... it was a great gank)... so it seems the 2 mil limit has been lifted.

I did run a full KWS on the other guy, but 2M is all I got. I take it getting more means the Criminal needs to have Bounties with more different Factions, which then will add their capped 1 (or 2?) Million.
Still peanuts to what the total Bounty carried will read.

 

[Arguendo]

Makes sense as an explanation, but that's actually kind of stupid.



See above.

You just need to find and kill someone with a high bounty in multiple systems.

Never mind that the game won't give you that information.

You're apparently supposed to stalk the reprehensible ne'er do well for weeks on end, waiting for their bounty to reach an acceptable point before you strike.

Simple.

You know? This game really is kind of a bad PvP game.

It's too bad, because it was a pretty great PvP game before the engineers reared their ugly heads.

C&P (or P&P as it should be called) is eventually going to bankrupt those of us who refuse to grind endlessly for credits.

But that's increasingly fine by me.

I am actually not sure what you find stupid.
Before Engineeres the maximum bounty you could collect from a cmdr was 1 million iirc. And there were no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You got 1M maximum, no matter how wanted they were in other systems.
So, the new system is actually an improvement on how it was before 2.1, as you can now collect more than 2M per cmdr bounty if you're lucky and scan them before killing them.

That PvP is bad in this game has little to do with the bounty system imho.

 

[ByteKiller]

Let me explain why players are Hell Incarnate. It's just because every time I've been killed by a player I had 0 chances, while random NPCs were always more ore less balanced. It seems to me that PvP is in the hands of people with a furious grinding past, huge economic possibilities and maxed out ships, while their victims may be normal people with just limited time to spend in the game. And the second problem with the game is that disparity between "normal" and PvP optimized builds is so huge that you just have a few seconds before knowing you've been condamned to die. While I enjoy the thrill of a fair fight, I don't like being the mouse in the paws of cats every time, just for a mere 4 seconds fun of them. Last time I've been beaten down has been with an interdiction of a 4 ships wing that fragged my A rated, mildly engineered Krait in just 4 seconds.
Where are player controlled justice forces? Ok being beated, but could I at least hope to have more than a few seconds to die? Just a bit of fun before going from supercruise to certain death?
That's why.

 

[Morbad]

Let me explain why players are Hell Incarnate. It's just because every time I've been killed by a player I had 0 chances, while random NPCs were always more ore less balanced.

NPCs should certainly make better risk/reward assessments and do more to stack the odds in their favor...but they are apparently supposed to be overt entertainment, not plausible characters.

Where are player controlled justice forces?

Players quickly realize that trying to corner and destroy a ship controlled by another player that knows what they're doing is nearly futile. Likewise, trying to defend a vessel piloted by someone who doesn't know what they are doing is nearly as much of a long shot.

On top of that, there is little to no incentive to peruse dangerous CMDRs. The odds of success are low and the rewards for succeeding are poor. It's also not a deterrent to anyone because even if they do get shot down, the penalty for being shot down is minimal.

Ok being beated, but could I at least hope to have more than a few seconds to die? Just a bit of fun before going from supercruise to certain death?

Destruction is not certain because it only takes a few seconds to escape. If it took longer to down ships than it does now, no one would ever get shot down, and more evenly matched engagements could drag out for upwards of half an hour.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

NPCs can't reason, but the way they're programmed is the reason they do what they do.

Ziggy Stardust, Vice President of the Pedantic Society.

"They" huh?

 

[ByteKiller]

Likewise, trying to defend a vessel piloted by someone who doesn't know what they are doing is nearly as much of a long shot.

Maybe I'm not the best player out there, but I think I know what I am doing. Still, there are situations where there is not much to do and there i no time to do it. I'm not against PvP, the problem is that it's just not for everyone, unless they like playing the part of the mouse with a band of cats.

Destruction is not certain because it only takes a few seconds to escape. If it took longer to down ships than it does now, no one would ever get shot down, and more evenly matched engagements could drag out for upwards of half an hour.

I'm not sure about what you mean with "a few seconds", but for me escape means low/high wake. Even after submitting, firing some chaffs, boosting immediately, dodging and hoping for the FSD to recharge quickly enough, I wasn't able to get away before being fraged (litteraly, by frag cannons) by 4 ships acting together. In any case, it was a 4vs1 situation, not exactly what I call fair fight. I'm ok with it, but I am not sure I can be blamed for not having enough time to always get around in a wing. Still, no complains. Probably PvP is not for me. But this also answer the question why PvP is often avoided.

 

[phong]

Guys, sincere question. Why is it okay for an NPC to shoot you, but not a player?Technically, there's no difference.

I prefer not to get shot at.I don't see your way is any better.

 

[Aasgard]

At the risk of speaking for someone else, maybe it's because the NPC's aren't so hilariously overpowered?

NPCs are generally a much more manageable threat, and you have breathing room to deal with them in more interesting ways than "submit and immediately high-wake."

^ True from an in-game interaction point of view.

Maybe, but people are different and have different goals and ways of enjoying themselves.

^ True from a psychological point of view.

There's also the little(!) problem of bandwidth....

Solo mode uses little bandwidth, but as soon as you have other Commanders involved (Private group/Open) you're dependant on their bandwidth and lag times - ever noticed the rubber-banding?

^ True, from a technical point of view.

Both are ok, but the NPC has more interaction over comms.

Since I'm a social player, I like interaction, so I prefer the NPC.

^ and true from an enjoyment point of view.

There are many reasons why people prefer PVE and likewise prefer PVP. What will really fry your mind is that some people enjoy both at different times.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Guys, sincere question. Why is it okay for an NPC to shoot you, but not a player?

Technically, there's no difference.

Technically perhaps...
but why do we need yet ANOTHER Open v PG/Solo thread... it's all been said before, there's nothing new to add to the same question!


Can't we discuss something new and fresh like.... Space Legs?

 

[Parmo]

Ironically, an NPC can't have a "reason" at all.

Perversely, a human player doesn't have to have a reason either.

Ask an NPC: why did you do that evil act?
Ask a player: why did you do that evil act?

Niether can answer coherently and honestly.

I've never seen or heard a known non-NPC griefer say: I like causing grief to other players.:x
Have you?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Perversely, a human player doesn't have to have a reason either.

That's the proverbial elephant of course.

Ask an NPC: why did you do that evil act?
Ask a player: why did you do that evil act?

Niether can answer coherently and honestly.

I've never seen or heard a known non-NPC griefer say: I like causing grief to other players.:x
Have you?

What do you think "salt-mining" is?
"Stream-sniping"?

What do you think this guy is supposed to express?

Schadenfreude.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"They" huh?

Bob Lighthouse, President of the Pedantic Society

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Bob Lighthouse, President of the Pedantic Society

The term, then, is obviously a relative one: my pedantry is your scholarship, his reasonable accuracy, her irreducible minimum of education and someone else’s ignorance.

H. W. Fowler

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I've never seen or heard a known non-NPC griefer say: I like causing grief to other players.:x
Have you?

I have. Literally heard the same.

You obviously never watched a Twitch stream from one or two of the more scumbag players. They have literally said this - and I have heard them say things about a number of the devs which I could never repeat on these forums or even paraphrase what was said. It was that bad.

Obviously this is just my word and it's up to you to believe it or not. All I can say is I have literally heard certain players on Twitch streams say they were out to ruin other player's day - and watched them do so.