The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

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ykza5

Y
Thank you both for the translation. Sorry Mr. Nowak, I don't mean to be rude but I asked for translation, not opinion on the article, wheter it was critical or not. Maybe the article is a little skeptical but why point out that an interviewer should look for things that are on the web when he has CR im front of him? As CEO he should be more than capable of answering every question. I must say when I backed the game I was pretty excited about everything of SC but the more I see the PR campaing, the interviews, the gamescom make me sad that I invested on them. Serously each big game event they just show videos and more trailers.

I wonder what would happen to this game once released. Who will buy it? Almost everyone interested will have the game by then so they can't expect to make huge profits like other games because the backers don't need to buy the game again (I hope).

PS: I do wonder the same about ED tho elite will be having expansions so thats a way to keep the game up and running I guess, but they are also reducing their sales numbers since almost everyone that is into this kind of game is getting in now
 

psyron

Banned
psyron
Marc Alexander said:
New stretch goal! (suggestions)

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/some-more-star-citizen-stretch-goals

:p
Click to expand...

My favorites:

$90 million
Ship interiors are now even more detailed, floor mats must be properly adjusted before lift-off to avoid them flying around the cockpit during dogfights.

$300 million
Chris Roberts himself will drive down your street in a monster truck, laughing and laughing.

$400 million
Additional realism: sometimes a wasp will fly into your cockpit, causing your character to temporarily lose control and skid into a black hole.

$500 million
All of the spaceships will be installed with overhead sun visors. Players have a 12% chance of finding a spare set of keys here, with a bonus modifier if they're on the run from the police.

$750 million
Planets now have reverse sides, rather than being revealed to be hollow once you fly around behind them.

Really funy indeed! ;)
Reminds me somehow my ship sales program post.
 
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zolhof

zolhof
psyron said:
Oh dear, are you kidding me?

Ok, let's present some of the quotes of the article:

- title of the article: "shrunk to an 'earthly' scale"
- "though a lot of ship details, one can not appreciate when ships are flying at large distances (so what's the point of having those high detailed ships?)"
- "and the cockpits doesn't look better than those of ED or other games"
- "It feels like an ordinary space sim"
- "Not what one might expect considering the millions of euros of premature praise"
- "when the space ship starts rotating around itself after a hit it looks quite embarrassing"
- "the discrepancy between graphical extravagance and actual game play will have to be discussed once SC will reach releace date, at the latest"
- "Hearing the answer about what will be available on planets to visit we are reminded to Peter Molyneux and Richard Garriott: Like with them, one can not be sure whether or not CR is inventing all those features in his answers on the fly while we are asking ..."
- "Isn't there the danger that CIG will lose the focuse with all the planned features? CR seems to not really understand the question and continue to talk about things coming in the next modules ..."
- "But we are not really successful to get the maestro to explain to us the bigger picture of what SC really will be all about. Maybe because he still don't have it himself?"
- "Or maybe he has the picture but is only focusing on little modules step by step?"
- "But maybe he resembles a child which has been given an unlimited budget for toys?"
- "Maybe he is thinking: You will see it when it's finished!"

Ok, so what was it Mr.Nowak was saying about this article?
-> "I read it. It was not too critical ..."

Took me a little bit of time to translate the main ideas of that article. But i guess it was worth it, isn't it? ;)

EUA12.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for translating that!
 

zolhof

zolhof
"The danger with Kickstarter, a really big danger with KS, is to over-promise. "Oh, we'll do this and we'll do that stretch goal for this extra amount of money" and all this sorta thing. And then, suddenly realize that it's actually a really hard thing to deliver. And so I think there's a lot of responsibility on to people going to KS that you really got to plan, and if you do offer something, be serious about how you are going to deliver that." - words of widsom by David Braben.
 

Trash Gordon

T
psyron said:
My favorites:

$90 million
Ship interiors are now even more detailed, floor mats must be properly adjusted before lift-off to avoid them flying around the cockpit during dogfights.

$300 million
Chris Roberts himself will drive down your street in a monster truck, laughing and laughing.

$400 million
Additional realism: sometimes a wasp will fly into your cockpit, causing your character to temporarily lose control and skid into a black hole.

$500 million
All of the spaceships will be installed with overhead sun visors. Players have a 12% chance of finding a spare set of keys here, with a bonus modifier if they're on the run from the police.

$750 million
Planets now have reverse sides, rather than being revealed to be hollow once you fly around behind them.

Really funy indeed! ;)
Reminds me somehow my ship sales program post.
Click to expand...

I always asumed 100million stretch goal was scrap SC build CR his real gold coated spacerocket:S.
 

psyron

Banned
psyron
zolhof said:
"The danger with Kickstarter, a really big danger with KS, is to over-promise. "Oh, we'll do this and we'll do that stretch goal for this extra amount of money" and all this sorta thing. And then, suddenly realize that it's actually a really hard thing to deliver. And so I think there's a lot of responsibility on to people going to KS that you really got to plan, and if you do offer something, be serious about how you are going to deliver that." - words of widsom by David Braben.
Click to expand...

Yeah i like this statement of DB.

And here something more i really enjoyed to hear from John Virgo having spend some times with DB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKDcLQZ6Bg0&t=10m

About what to expect from ED:
"If there is anything that anyone is concerned about fot that game because they haven't seen it yet or they don't know whether it will have, trust me, it's been thought of! It either exists or it's in the planning!"

Because one big difference between SC and ED is that while CIG like to talk immediately about every little idea they have in mind, FD prefer to think about it more quitely and bring it in the ring as a little surprise once it's in the developement!!!
I really prefer those positive surprises compared to those false promises of CIG/CR. ;)
 

Doctor_Demento

Doctor_Demento
psyron said:
Yeah i like this statement of DB.

And here something more i really enjoyed to hear from John Virgo having spend some times with DB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKDcLQZ6Bg0&t=10m

About what to expect from ED:
"If there is anything that anyone is concerned about fot that game because they haven't seen it yet or they don't know whether it will have, trust me, it's been thought of! It either exists or it's in the planning!"

Because one big difference between SC and ED is that while CIG like to talk immediately about every little idea they have in mind, FD prefer to think about it more quitely and bring it in the ring as a little surprise once it's in the developement!!!
I really prefer those positive surprises compared to those false promises of CIG/CR. ;)
Click to expand...

I prefer to know what features and equipment are coming on the car I paid for and ordered. I don't want "surprises" on it when it shows up. And false promises? Really? Still being rude eh? Wow, over 1000 post and almost zero rep. Now I wonder why? OK enough of you, back to the post at hand. ;)

@OP ...... Nice post mate. Pretty funny. Yeah I vote for the screaming robot. That would be a blast. :D
 

Dante80

Dante80
Voivod said:
So I asked these two questions before but none of CIG's resident white knights cared to answer so I'll ask them again:


What would you consider P2W in the current form of Star Citizen? (just a note, you CAN have P2W in a game where you don't actually win in the traditional sense of the word). I mean currently any ships or weapons you want are locked behind a paywall right?

and

The devs have often said that you're not paying for ships, you're paying for the development of the game ("the ships are just extra").
If you're not paying for the ships, why does each ship have a different price?
Why is it that the more you pay the more "powerful" ship you seem to get?
Why not have all ships at the same price and add a slider for how much extra you want to play (like humble does it)?
Click to expand...

I don't think of myself as a white knight of anything really (er..except Yamazaki single malt whiskey but..thats a different story XD) but I will try to answer that.

Its really disheartening that many people do not even understand the conundrum that CIG are currently in regarding this specific matter. Here is some perspective for those that do not follow the meta-game well. I will not go into LTI, this is another beast altogether (which just makes the situation much worse).

Official CIG stance ATM.
1. Ship sales to be removed from the website when the game goes live.
2. Players will be able to buy UEC. Limits imposed on the amount per day/week etc.
3. A ship that will "maybe" need 60hrs of grinding to procure costs now 225$. This is an average of 3.75$/hr, or 3750UEC/hr for now.
4. Ships are currently "sold" with a big discount, and the actual $ exchange rate for buying ships is going to change. Since ship price cannot be arbitrary in an economy simulation but linked to everything else, this means that the $/hr and UEC/hr values will go up. Essentially, ships are condensed money.

What has happened and is happening
1. People and orgs/corps are stockpiling ships and alt accounts to either melt when the game goes live for UEC and double+ the effective $/UEC rates CIG gold selling will give , or trade for a healthy $ profit.
2. Speculators are heavy gambling real money on CIG not alienating their player-base by changing stance on the points listed above.

What is going to happen when the game goes live
1. If CIG undercuts gold farming by having very high UEC selling amounts, then the game will be flooded and the economy will be superheated.
2. If CIG imposes very strict UEC selling limits, then gold farming will be prevalent and most of trades will be actually pre-finalized out of game (including sinks like taxes or transfer rates in the price ~ which btw cannot be very high because they will kill the dynamic economy and move the game into account selling).
3. If CIG undercuts gold farming by having very high UEC selling amounts, then they would have to increase the grind rate considerably so as to keep the economy balanced and hyper-inflation checked. This will turn the game into P2progress grindfest if (and only if) its not done properly.
4. If CIG imposes very strict UEC selling limits, the only way to undercut gold farming would be to artificially trivialize in value the game assets already sold to the userbase before the game launches. That..will not go well.

and most importantly
5. If CIG balances gold farming by striving to give it equivalence to imposed UEC/$ limits, then it has to keep the prices the same for the already sold game assets after the game releases. Making it a priori P2W right now.

I don't know if many understand this or not, but CIG actually lost this battle as soon as it gave 50$+ MILLION DOLLARS of game assets to its playerbase...as "thanks". Its damned if you do, damned if you don't from now on.

The second question you make is inherently tied to the first one. If ships have a quantifiable value in the game, then differences in that value can be also reflected at the pledging level when you support the game now. This is not a priori bad or strange mind you, since it both boosts funds for development and gives players different goals and tiers of content as compensation. The whole "problem" stems not from monetization (any and every game want this, and CIG has done a very good job so far in that department), but from the balancing headaches I explained above.

Hope that helps, cheers..C:
 
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kilvenny

kilvenny
@Dante80 - Thank you for articulating what has burned in my mind for long while. For me its like a time bomb ticking and I am interested to see how its defused. I currently struggle to see a solution at pu. Alienate the backers or alienate the new players. The best solution I suspect is to have backer servers and new player servers.
 

psyron

Banned
psyron
Doctor_Demento said:
I prefer to know what features and equipment are coming on the car I paid for and ordered. I don't want "surprises" on it when it shows up. And false promises? Really? Still being rude eh? Wow, over 1000 post and almost zero rep. Now I wonder why?
Click to expand...

It's not like FD are selling something differently than promised at the beginning. They are and always have been very clear about the big goals. They wouldn't suddenly introduce a "race game" when the initial talk was all about creating a PERSISTENT UNIVERSE! ;)

You know, speaking out the truth isn't always the best way to make friends! ;)
And i am not begging for rep +1 points as others do.
I simply don't care about that premature rep point system. ;)
 
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Voivod

Voivod
Dante80 said:
Hope that helps, cheers..C:
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the effort, especially from you who I know are a neutral-ish mind on the matter.
It helps answer my questions but it doesn't help ease my mind on this matter. In fact it's the opposite, you mentioned a few things I hadn't though of and now I'm even more worried.

To be honest I don't think CIG themselves have thought about it through very well.
I think they see a chance to make a ridiculous amount of money NOW and they're doing this and worrying about the economy of the game later. The more I see them talking about the whole funding thing (that video Mr.Nowak linked) the more I am convinced they have no idea or currently don't care about the problem as it is now.

Dante80 said:
Official CIG stance ATM.
1. Ship sales to be removed from the website when the game goes live.
Click to expand...

Just one note on this: Ben mentioned that they'd sell ships post launch if the players still wanted it (which they will as usual).

This comment re-enforces my opinion that they haven't planned out the economy very well.
They really need to get some economic advisers over from EvE or Valve (Varoufakis <3) asap.


It is however IMPOSSIBLE to bring up the matter on the official forums or the subreddit.
The fanboy bees are too numerous.
 

Bains

Banned
B
Dante80 said:
I don't know if many understand this or not, but CIG actually lost this battle as soon as it gave 50$+ MILLION DOLLARS of game assets to its playerbase...as "thanks". Its damned if you do, damned if you don't from now on.
Click to expand...

Poor CIG, I'm not sure if you intended to but your conclusion appears to nuance their part into that of a victim. The kickstarter was successful. They achieved the funded they stated they required. No one twisted their arm to open up a new store front and continue with never ending LTI sales. It was the first of many reversals that made me, and as I recall, other backers uneasy. Perhaps they should just have stuck to the original scope and plan? This is all their own doing. Hardly like they had to or a gun was held to their head.

If they are damned it is because they embraced this path with both arms instead of making the game with the perfectly good scope pitched to original backers who gave him all the funding he asked for. What happened after is his and his alone to own, and without the case of him being 'damned if he did or damned if he didn't'.

In fact, he would have been respected and roundly applauded had he stuck to his guns, and responded to additional demand with offers that did not employ LTI for subsequent backers and astutely banked the cash for indeterminate future enhancements and expansions.

Roberts will create Star Citizen without a publisher. He has private investment, but needs to do "an element" of crowd funding to raise between two and four million dollars and validate the private investors' valuation of the project. The game itself will cost between 12 million and 14 million dollars to create.

"I can make it for this price because I'm not making it inside the system," he said. "If I did it inside the system that would be $20+ million."
 
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cptzipzap

C
but the game changed the scope dramatically. at first it was more like world of tanks with instanced fighting areas. now its more exploring and other stuff (that was planned for after release in the original schedule).

at least thats what I think it was.
 

Bains

Banned
B
cptzipzap said:
but the game changed the scope dramatically. at first it was more like world of tanks with instanced fighting areas. now its more exploring and other stuff (that was planned for after release in the original schedule).

at least thats what I think it was.
Click to expand...

No. Certainly the plan has changed. But this may sound counter intuitive but in fact the reverse is true to what you have stated. For all intents and purposes the focus is now a game of collecting ships, where as the original plan was a highly targeted game for PC users who weren't getting a lot of content and a return to the old school PC space sim.

Here's the originally pitch for you. Note how often the word 'universe' is used, how he leads with it and places so much emphasis on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhsgiliheP0
 
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