PvP In defense of murder (in game)

[Alwayslate]

CMDRs ganking CMDRs in anarchy systems, isn't it supposed to be? Some people are really easy to trigger.

Ahahaha, negative my friend I have a loadout that on a good day can kill big ships in literally 5 minutes ith no torps or mines :3. Want a PM?

I don't even think this is possible. Could you shed some light, plz? If...you're not trolling. This is really hard to believe:/

 

[Parmo]

Some people believe that a person acting the role of an 'evil' person is evil.

Plays, films, myths, novels, stories and games do teach morals.
As do religious texts.

In ED the OP is getting away with murder without due in-game sufficient harsh punishment, in my humble opinion.
This reflects the legal system in the ED Universe and therefore the ethics and morality of it.
This Universe has been devised by the developers of ED. So by induction, these developers must have the same ethics and morality.
They have encouraged the behaviour such as that the OP has admitted to; the current C&P system does not discourage such behaviour.


This dicussion reminds me of the media interest in the COD MW2 game:
[video=youtube;2UadzYIwors]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UadzYIwors[/video]


Play in Open by all means but be aware that you can be subject to bad events.[yesnod]
If you're going to moan about this at least moan at FDev for having a C&P framework that condones such behaviour as described by the OP.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

CMDRs ganking CMDRs in anarchy systems, isn't it supposed to be? Some people are really easy to trigger.





I don't even think this is possible. Could you shed some light, plz? If...you're not trolling. This is really hard to believe:/

Sure. Flechettes, silent running, and short range railguns. It's time to say gg ez.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Let me paraphrase:
"We're all playing behind the house, right? Me and all those other kids. I'm supposed to have fun, right?
So, obviously, I forced that little kid to eat mud, because it was fun. I felt strong and powerfull, which was really thrilling.
He wanted to build sand castle of some other stupid thing, so I've showed him how we play there.
He should've been reasonable about it, because it was so much fun, but he wasn't and refused to move and let me sit on a bench, which was unconfortably located in plain view of our parents.
I've tried to reason with him, explaining that if he would not move, I will seek him and beat him on every occasion, but he was stubborn and refused.
So I waited and when he left our parents sight I kicked his a**.
What a moron. And we could've been friends."
Confessions of a bully, 9 y.o.

I bless the Solo option.

I 100% agree it is bullying....all this "it's just pixels" nonsense is just that, utter nonsense. Facebook is "just pixels" yet IS a known source of bullying, people just don't understand that you don't HAVE to physically hurt someone for it to be classed as bullying. As the Op says though it's how FD want the game to be played and it's why I never bothered with open. But because it's the Way FD want it to be played doesn't mean the ops behaviour is NOT bullying, it means FD have created a "lord of the flies" scenario that encourages bullying.

to the op....you felt guilt BECAUSE you knew it was wrong. There was another person affected by your actions in a negative manner, and you used massively superior force which (you've guessed it) means bullying.

 

[Florenus]

Yeeahhhh noooo.
That my friend, is called role-play.

Well, my friend, I did a lot of P&P Roleplaying. I can understand the difference between roleplaying a character and just doing whatever you feel like.

Usually, you do not play those games alone, but with other people, right?
So, let's say, I'm playing with my friends, one is a noble knight, the other a thief, and I'm playing a psychopatic murderer.
And, once in a while, I kill their characters by stabbing them in their sleep. Or attack them, because the story was boring and "my character" felt like killing someone.
They loose characters they developed, time invested in progressing them.
But no hard feeleings, it was my character, I was roleplaying.

So, they stop inviting me to play with them. But why? It wasn't me, It was my character! There even is Assassin class in the rulebook! They must be crazy and can't see the difference between RL and a game.

And to clarify, because I no longer believe we might understand eachother, this is only in reply to your statement. This is only about the fact that playing a game has some RL reference and not general statement about how to play ED.
I'm not telling you that playing a killer means you're a psycho - you might just want to vent, whatever. Psychodrama is based on what you want to roleplay.
But you should consider how it affects others, if they're involved.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Well, my friend, I did a lot of P&P Roleplaying. I can understand the difference between roleplaying a character and just doing whatever you feel like.

Usually, you do not play those games alone, but with other people, right?
So, let's say, I'm playing with my friends, one is a noble knight, the other a thief, and I'm playing a psychopatic murderer.
And, once in a while, I kill their characters by stabbing them in their sleep. Or attack them, because the story was boring and "my character" felt like killing someone.
They loose characters they developed, time invested in progressing them.
But no hard feeleings, it was my character, I was roleplaying.

So, they stop inviting me to play with them. But why? It wasn't me, It was my character! There even is Assassin class in the rulebook! They must be crazy and can't see the difference between RL and a game.

And to clarify, because I no longer believe we might understand eachother, this is only in reply to your statement. This is only about the fact that playing a game has some RL reference and not general statement about how to play ED.
I'm not telling you that playing a killer means you're a psycho - you might just want to vent, whatever. Psychodrama is based on what you want to roleplay.
But you should consider how it affects others, if they're involved.

TL;DR

 

[Florenus]

TL;DR

Damn, I feel like a preacher trying to talk to 9yo street gang

 

[Krash]

Well, my friend, I did a lot of P&P Roleplaying. I can understand the difference between roleplaying a character and just doing whatever you feel like.

Usually, you do not play those games alone, but with other people, right?
So, let's say, I'm playing with my friends, one is a noble knight, the other a thief, and I'm playing a psychopatic murderer.
And, once in a while, I kill their characters by stabbing them in their sleep. Or attack them, because the story was boring and "my character" felt like killing someone.
They loose characters they developed, time invested in progressing them.
But no hard feeleings, it was my character, I was roleplaying.

So, they stop inviting me to play with them. But why? It wasn't me, It was my character! There even is Assassin class in the rulebook! They must be crazy and can't see the difference between RL and a game.

And to clarify, because I no longer believe we might understand eachother, this is only in reply to your statement. This is only about the fact that playing a game has some RL reference and not general statement about how to play ED.
I'm not telling you that playing a killer means you're a psycho - you might just want to vent, whatever. Psychodrama is based on what you want to roleplay.
But you should consider how it affects others, if they're involved.

I dont know anyone in this game that kills their friends, outside of arranged duels. The "psychos" hunt in packs, looking for strangers they can vaporize with a clean conscience.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

If your friends don't try to gank you once in awhile, are they really your friends?

Being interdicted and shot at by people I know is a great honor lmao.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Damn, I feel like a preacher trying to talk to 9yo street gang

Florenus, you are wasting your time trying to reason with people of this kind. Most of the dedicated murder fans are blessed with closed minds, mighty conceit, and are generally not over-furnished on the upper floor, (just notice the spelling and writing style.)

To any one who dips into open for non-murder related pleasure and gets set upon by these star lords with their over-engineered vipers or whatever, don't forget you may legally escape by logging out to the main menu. They really hate this! Especially because FDev have clearly declared that it is a totally acceptable way to quit the game and escape from psychos.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Let's not try to get too self-rightcheous shall we?

I'm sorry, but a game is a game. We don't complain about being shot at in any other game in existence do we?

So why this one?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Florenus, you are wasting your time trying to reason with people of this kind. Most of the dedicated murder fans are blessed with closed minds, mighty conceit, and are generally not over-furnished on the upper floor, (just notice the spelling and writing style.)

To any one who dips into open for non-murder related pleasure and gets set upon by these star lords with their over-engineered vipers or whatever, don't forget you may legally escape by logging out to the main menu. They really hate this! Especially because FDev have clearly declared that it is a totally acceptable way to quit the game and escape from psychos.

Yes.

You people who never engage in PvP have considerably stronger morals and don't have the total braincell count of a pigeon.

You really are aware that you are trying to demonise people, simply because they play the game differently to you? Do you not realise how utterly ridiculous that it?

And we have closed minds.. My good lord. Apart from the fact that we are'nt trying to make a sect of the game look bad.. Can you see the irony there?

And no lol, If someone logs, then fair play, it's pretty cowardly yeah, but meh, I just imagine they exploded. xD

 

[Alwayslate]

Sure. Flechettes, silent running, and short range railguns. It's time to say gg ez.

Aww I was expecting better. Flechettes are good but only when your opponents don't use MRPs.

Well, my friend, I did a lot of P&P Roleplaying. I can understand the difference between roleplaying a character and just doing whatever you feel like.

Usually, you do not play those games alone, but with other people, right?
So, let's say, I'm playing with my friends, one is a noble knight, the other a thief, and I'm playing a psychopatic murderer.
And, once in a while, I kill their characters by stabbing them in their sleep. Or attack them, because the story was boring and "my character" felt like killing someone.
They loose characters they developed, time invested in progressing them.
But no hard feeleings, it was my character, I was roleplaying.

So, they stop inviting me to play with them. But why? It wasn't me, It was my character! There even is Assassin class in the rulebook! They must be crazy and can't see the difference between RL and a game.

And to clarify, because I no longer believe we might understand eachother, this is only in reply to your statement. This is only about the fact that playing a game has some RL reference and not general statement about how to play ED.
I'm not telling you that playing a killer means you're a psycho - you might just want to vent, whatever. Psychodrama is based on what you want to roleplay.
But you should consider how it affects others, if they're involved.

Hypothetically, let's say OP is bullying. What next? Does you being morally right (in the game) change anything?

Florenus, you are wasting your time trying to reason with people of this kind. Most of the dedicated murder fans are blessed with closed minds, mighty conceit, and are generally not over-furnished on the upper floor, (just notice the spelling and writing style.)

To any one who dips into open for non-murder related pleasure and gets set upon by these star lords with their over-engineered vipers or whatever, don't forget you may legally escape by logging out to the main menu. They really hate this! Especially because FDev have clearly declared that it is a totally acceptable way to quit the game and escape from psychos.

In Florenus's desktop game, you'd be the one who hides all the dices so that other players can't roll an attack to your character.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Aww I was expecting better. Flechettes are good but only when your opponents don't use MRPs.

Sure if they have more than 2. Most don't, especially on big ships, supa-sheilding and what not.

The trick I'v found is trying to get them as close to the module as possible. It kind of feels like they have a very short range falloff bubble around the explosion.

 

[Florenus]

Hypothetically, let's say OP is bullying. What next? Does you being morally right (in the game) change anything?

Just don't spit on me and call it rain.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Let's not try to get too self-rightcheous shall we?

I'm sorry, but a game is a game. We don't complain about being shot at in any other game in existence do we?

So why this one?

Maybe because it is, for want of a better word, special. A game that tries (and generally succeeds) in being more than a 3D version of Galaxians.

But in truth, I personally can't subscribe to the "it's just a game, and therefore whatever I do in it doesn't have any relationship to my character" concept. I think visitors to the fictional world of Westworld would probably go home saying something like that. ("OK so I enjoy shooting robots, that doesn't mean I would ever shoot a person, lol".)

It's what those exploding pixels represent, no? And the joy you feel at that moment is also about crushing another (real) person. Just like our OP buddy here.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Yes.

You people who never engage in PvP have considerably stronger morals and don't have the total braincell count of a pigeon.

You really are aware that you are trying to demonise people, simply because they play the game differently to you? Do you not realise how utterly ridiculous that it?

And we have closed minds.. My good lord. Apart from the fact that we are'nt trying to make a sect of the game look bad.. Can you see the irony there?

And no lol, If someone logs, then fair play, it's pretty cowardly yeah, but meh, I just imagine they exploded. xD

You demonize yourselves by your behavior, words, and attitudes.

You personally are an intimidator. You fly around literally asking others "are you a victim?" before gratuitously attacking them with engineered weapons. And then going around posing and bragging about how great you are.

Cowardly? Dude, dare I suggest your worldview is just a tiny bit out of synch with reality? You see for me cowardly is RW stuff, (use your imagination,) not logging out of a computer game to evade harassment.

And as for what you'd do if someone "logs", no need to tell me. I know exactly what you do, you did it to me just a few weeks ago. After interdicting me (repeatedly) and chasing me out of Shinrarta, I received messages from several of your buddies telling me 'don't log, word gets around' and 'you're on a KOS list now'. Maybe it's you that has a problem with honesty and decent behavior here.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Let's not try to get too self-rightcheous shall we?

I'm sorry, but a game is a game. We don't complain about being shot at in any other game in existence do we?

So why this one?

The concept that is seemingly hard to grasp is not the fact of the actual "shooting", other "shooting" games have more of a level playing field, but elites playing field is about as unequal as you can get. So, by picking a WEAKER target (note the emphasis there) has ALL the basic hallmarks of bullying. The "just pixels" thing is irrelevant, lack of physical contact is irrelevant, FD's tacit approval is irrelevant. The only thing relevant is if the "victim" thinks it's bullying.

There are many who don't think it's bullying even if they are the "victim" and even enjoy that risk of destruction. And I do see the point of some who say stay out of open, and I sort of agree with that outlook on a personal level. But in the end Open is open to everyone of ALL play styles, yes you can play as a but don't try and justify it and aim for some sort of moral high ground saying it's just a game.

Elite's problem is the rules or lack of them, take rules away from humans and the thin veneer of civilisation is gone. Games prove that IMO.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, I really don't think that attacking Corvettes and Cutters in a Viper or Courier is "harrasment" to be frank lol. And yes, when I get one of those usually quite cocky big ships to pop, I do feel satisfaction. Because it was a challenge to do so. Even more so when the odds are bad, which they quite often are. xD

It is a very, VERY small subset who get that upset regarding being killed in a video game. Almost infantessimally so. Much like any real world situation, you win some, or you loose some.

In fact, a decent proportion of people I fight/Die to/Kill are not salty, nor do they call me a bully. More often than not I actually have dialouge with the people I've killed, and a fair number of them, are now people I make a point of flying with and actively will help out with the game when they ask.

Too much presumption in here that people who shoot other players are "bullies" or "a danger to society". Please. It's almost painful.

Are you really so easily upset by how others choose to spend thier time in game? Thats a little weird. The problem there lies with you. Not with those just going about thier day.

And yes. Logging from a small ship when in a fully engineered gunboat, is cowardly. Not that I'm phased in the slightest by it, as I've already said, but don't try to sugar coat wimping out because you are losing at a videogame.

As for not subscribing to the "It's just a game" thing, you must realise here that a good portion of people play these games as a release from the stresses of life. Even people who log, and then send a salty message, nine out of ten times, will fight untill they look like they are going to lose, then they get butthurt because they did'nt win.

Yeah, I'd agree Leper, about the last statement regarding loosing the thin venir of civilization. But a very long time ago, in my early teens I realised that it is just a venir. Should the slightest thing go wrong enough for a society to collapse, yes, people will do all kinds of horrific things. People are inherently nasty. There is literally no such thing as true altuisim in our species, so it might be prudent not to preach about bullies and murderers in a virtual world, when it really would'nt take much to turn yourself into such a thing IRL under the right circumstances. Same as it would me, and probably the other 99.9% reccuring of humanity.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to deal with people shooting at others, thats fine, there are options to prevent it. But do not make out that the people who will engage with it are in any way worse than yourselves, because at the end of the day, we ALL have the capacity to be evil swines.

 

[jasonbirder]

It is a very, VERY small subset who get that upset regarding being killed in a video game. Almost infantessimally so. Much like any real world situation, you win some, or you loose some.

Its situational isn't it/
If I was playing I don't know...PUBG or Fortnight and someone killed me I wouldn't be upset...say I was an hour into a DCS Mission and all of a sudden one off the Escorting Eagles decided to pop my A10C with their Charlie-AMRAAM "for the feeling of overwhelming superiority" damn right i'd be cheesed off...
One is an arcade game...one we expect to take place in a world "logical within its own limits"
I'll leave individuals to decide whether they see Elite as a Space Flight/Combat/Exploration/Trading game in a connected and internally coherent game Universe...or whether they consider it 3D Space Invaders...
Out of the sub-set of those that consider it little more tha "Duke Nuke 'Em" in cockpits...I'll let them decide whether they feel its their right to impose that interpretation on ALL the OTHER Commanders who see it as something with a little more substance...