the FSS, watching paint dry....

[Old Duck]

If FDev had put anywhere near the effort into scanner options that the have in weapon options it would have been awesome.

... so everyone can tailor their ships, their outfitting and their gameplay to their particular style. It's EXACTLY how weapons work on the game - you tailor your loadout to your style and the task you're doing.

While I do not agree with a lot of the specifics that I left unquoted, I do find your argument regarding outfitting (comparing the sparse selection of exploration tools to the vast collection of combat tools) to be... compelling.

If Frontier were to go this way, balance would be key. The ADS reminds me of a turreted weapon, whereas the FSS feels more like a fixed projectile weapon like a rail gun. If turreted weapons were cheaper and delivered more DPS than their fixed counterparts, some people would likely complain, which mirrors my complaint about the old ADS vs the new FSS. That's why I'm okay with a modified ADS (described a few pages back), but I've always felt the original ADS was OP.

Anyway, good argument!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

First, hunting signals in a mini game is not, to me, exploring. Exploring means going to planets. Scanning them, using probes to map. Landing, if there is anything engaging to see. The FSS is not exploration, it's a 2D mobile style, bolt on mini game.

Secondly, the FSS is NOT optional for explorers. You literally cannot find bodies in undiscovered systems without it. That's the definition of mandatory.

The FSS is not exploration. It is a discovery tool that then allows you to explore the system you are in if you so wish. It does not and cannot replace exploration of a system or planet. That is still the same as before.

 

[Darkfyre99]

First, hunting signals in a mini game is not, to me, exploring. Exploring means going to planets. Scanning them, using probes to map. Landing, if there is anything engaging to see. The FSS is not exploration, it's a 2D mobile style, bolt on mini game.

What you’re describing is planetary exploration, going to a planet to see what’s there.

Pre-Horizons, there was just system exploration: going to a system, to see what’s there.

Pre-Alpha, Frontier’s DDF also had exploring the Milky Way galaxy on the table: launching probes and mapping Witchspace, in order to allow travel between systems. I guess they decided that if they’re going to invest all this effort into recreating the Milky Way, requiring us to explore the galaxy in order to travel through it needed to be taken off the table. Closest thing to that this these days are some of the extreme jump range stunts to the galactic equivalent of the South Pole or Mount Everest.

Secondly, the FSS is NOT optional for explorers. You literally cannot find bodies in undiscovered systems without it. That's the definition of mandatory.

IKR?

It’s a pity that until you’ve used the FSS, every single body in the system is invisible, and cannot be seen moving against the background stars as your ship moves through a system...

 

[Darkfyre99]

While I do not agree with a lot of the specifics that I left unquoted, I do find your argument regarding outfitting (comparing the sparse selection of exploration tools to the vast collection of combat tools) to be... compelling.

If Frontier were to go this way, balance would be key. The ADS reminds me of a turreted weapon, whereas the FSS feels more like a fixed projectile weapon like a rail gun. If turreted weapons were cheaper and delivered more DPS than their fixed counterparts, some people would likely complain, which mirrors my complaint about the old ADS vs the new FSS. That's why I'm okay with a modified ADS (described a few pages back), but I've always felt the original ADS was OP.

Anyway, good argument!

Agreed.

I’ve always bemoaned the fact that a Hauler can be just as effective as an Anaconda when it comes to exploration. Until 3.3, the main drawback to the Hauler was that you couldn’t equip an SRV and a Shield Generator at the same time. People thought I was joking when complained about Frontier “fixing” that particular flaw.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

While I do not agree with a lot of the specifics that I left unquoted, I do find your argument regarding outfitting (comparing the sparse selection of exploration tools to the vast collection of combat tools) to be... compelling.

If Frontier were to go this way, balance would be key. The ADS reminds me of a turreted weapon, whereas the FSS feels more like a fixed projectile weapon like a rail gun. If turreted weapons were cheaper and delivered more DPS than their fixed counterparts, some people would likely complain, which mirrors my complaint about the old ADS vs the new FSS. That's why I'm okay with a modified ADS (described a few pages back), but I've always felt the original ADS was OP.

Anyway, good argument!

Agreed.

I’ve always bemoaned the fact that a Hauler can be just as effective as an Anaconda when it comes to exploration. Until 3.3, the main drawback to the Hauler was that you couldn’t equip an SRV and a Shield Generator at the same time. People thought I was joking when complained about Frontier “fixing” that particular flaw.

The devil is always in the details.

As far as balance goes, as a general rule of thumb I'd say that tools that give more information passively (including click and hold honking) should give less reward than those which require the player to be actively involved. In that respect obviously the ADS is totally passive while the FSS occupies the middle ground. For me, truly active systems would have a failure mode - the greater the failure chance, the higher the rewards.

@Darkfyre - my submodule system would address your concerns by allowing larger class scanners to fit more submodules. The 'Conda would therefore be automatically more capable than a Hauler. It could also be used to create the infamous 'dedicated explorer' ship that so many people want - it would be the only ship able to fit a scanner capable of taking all the submodules.

 

[Maro-Val]

I used the f f s some more. Nothing can change the fact that after some time of using it, it is still a simple boring mini game that requires absolutelly zero skill to fully reveal all the bodies in a system.
When i tune in to a body i simply press zoom in an out as fast as i can (click click) and when i finish i open up the system map to see the complete layout as before.
If we had this lame system from the day the game launched, it would be a very nice mechanic, but after years of using the old way, it is just a time sink mini game that added more time to do the exact same thing as before.
I admit that it is good in finding high grade uss and for farming mats at geological POIs, but that is not exploration.
I propose that they scrap the entire thing like never happened and come up with a decent exploration tool that compliments this amazing game, instead of a time sink/mini game.

 

[Ozram]

I see that emotions are still running hot on this topic. I've yet to actually even fire up the game and try the new patch, but I must say that the changes sound good on paper. Exploration was always tedious and unrewarding so any change is movement in the right direction.

I’ve been really liking the new system. It’s manual and removes a lot of the RNG while retaining the usefulness in physically approaching a body you’d like to investigate further. Not getting too involved in this thread though. Mostly just entertained by it.

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

I used the f f s some more. Nothing can change the fact that after some time of using it, it is still a simple boring mini game that requires absolutelly zero skill to fully reveal all the bodies in a system.
When i tune in to a body i simply press zoom in an out as fast as i can (click click) and when i finish i open up the system map to see the complete layout as before.
If we had this lame system from the day the game launched, it would be a very nice mechanic, but after years of using the old way, it is just a time sink mini game that added more time to do the exact same thing as before.
I admit that it is good in finding high grade uss and for farming mats at geological POIs, but that is not exploration.
I propose that they scrap the entire thing like never happened and come up with a decent exploration tool that compliments this amazing game, instead of a time sink/mini game.

The old way required no skill either. Press button, done. It isn't supposed to be a skill. Plus looking at the system map isn't a skill either. The Orrery is however a much more accurate tool.

Whether anyone "likes" it or not. It's here and we will get used to it. Don't like it? Don't use it. It isn't going anywhere.

People have cried out for something new when it comes to exploration, and the FSS along with the space phenomenon, probes Codex etc. It's a breath of fresh air. It's here, deal with it.

 

[Burke]

People have cried out for something new when it comes to exploration, and the FSS along with the space phenomenon, probes Codex etc. It's a breath of fresh air. It's here, deal with it.

So you think its good that now one group has excluded the other? I bet coming here rubbing peoples face in it and telling them to deal with it is actually more fun than using the thing isnt it? Cmon own up.

 

[Scytale]

[haha]

Contrary to that the FSS adds the option to actively look for signals and analyze them,
you can always just honk and fly to the planets for passive resolving,
if the roving explorer is your style.

The FSS does not force anything on an explorer, it just adds to the list of tools,
without cluttering the ship, without module creep and finally a choice,
which even me got into exploring again a bit.

Of course ! What a great post ! [haha][haha][haha][haha]
You can always close your eyes while performing a safari in the Kruger Reserve.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So you think its good that now one group has excluded the other? I bet coming here rubbing peoples face in it and telling them to deal with it is actually more fun than using the thing isnt it? Cmon own up.

One group hasn't excluded the other. The other group have excluded themselves for a myriad of different reasons.

 

[Dutchman141]

So you think its good that now one group has excluded the other? I bet coming here rubbing peoples face in it and telling them to deal with it is actually more fun than using the thing isnt it? Cmon own up.

And telling people who actually like the new system over and over how much it sucks is just fine then?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

And telling people who actually like the new system over and over how much it sucks is just fine then?

Given that nobody is trying to take the FSS away, then yeah, it pretty much is.
All any of us are asking for is a choice.

 

[Scytale]

I see that emotions are still running hot on this topic. I've yet to actually even fire up the game and try the new patch, but I must say that the changes sound good on paper. Exploration was always tedious and unrewarding so any change is movement in the right direction.

Money, money, money !
You will love it, "Explorer" !

 

[Burke]

And telling people who actually like the new system over and over how much it sucks is just fine then?

But surely the people who like it would be off playing rather than arguing with us in here

Remember that we are not asking them to take your FSS away. We are just asking for some choice.

 

[Scytale]

This !
FSS lovers are just ADS haters.
Hate and you will be hated !

 

[Dutchman141]

But surely the people who like it would be off playing rather than arguing with us in here

Then where would the fun be for you guys, just couple nay sayers sitt'n together, we're here to spice things up a bit

And don't worry, as soon as I can kick my son off the Xbox I'll be back to ED exploring away.

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

But surely the people who like it would be off playing rather than arguing with us in here

Remember that we are not asking them to take your FSS away. We are just asking for some choice.

The FSS is here. It's all of ours. It isn't going away. Flogging a dead horse comes to mind. So perhaps you shouldn't be here crying about it and get in game and get used to it You're not asking for choice (or atleast some aren't), you simply dont like the fact that things change. People are so used to the old way they can't let go. Yes I'm happy and so are many others. So it's pointless debating over and over. #FSSmadeElitegreatagain

Oh and fyi, I'm on my phone, so I can do both at the same time.

 

[Scytale]

The idea that the ADS is too powerful was brought up in a few different threads long before Frontier announced the FSS. Here's just a sample:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/180494-Advanced-discovery-scanner-needs-a-nerf

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/447155-Why-we-should-say-goodbye-to-honk

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...u-consider-giving-up-on-the-infinite-honk-for

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-infinite-range-but-it-was-too-late-to-fix-it

I'm not claiming these threads show unanimous support for "nerfing the honk", but I do think it answers your questions. I even remember ObsidianAnt discussing the ADS in one of his earlier videos, and while I don't remember his own opinion on the matter, he made it clear that some percentage of the community felt it was OP.

 

[Burke]

The FSS is here. It's all of ours. It isn't going away. Flogging a dead horse comes to mind. So perhaps you shouldn't be here crying about it and get in game and get used to it You're not asking for choice (or atleast some aren't), you simply dont like the fact that things change. People are so used to the old way they can't let go. Yes I'm happy and so are many others. So it's pointless debating over and over. #FSSmadeElitegreatagain

Oh and fyi, I'm on my phone, so I can do both at the same time.

Crying in here is more fun than using the FSS for me. Its not mine.. you have no idea whats going to be done and at the end of the day i paid for the old way. I dont know what else to say but if the endless debate upsets you then dont read it. This is a thread for sour old moaners. Cant imagine why anybody would even want to post in here