If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[Red Anders]

I already 'voted' so not going into that daft repetition mill that I'll rather leave to the desperate FSS haters.

All I'd like to add is this: I can assure you, if the devs would ever decide to even halfway dilute their new FSS with some of the old ADS functionality - maybe as an attempt to mitigate some of the current whinging - the current endless debating loops would be a nice child's birthday compared to what we will see on the forums then.

Prime example right there ^

'desperate haters', 'whinging' etc. Because expressing an opinion about something must be 'whinging' and people who dislike a particular game mechanic are 'desperate haters' not people who just don't like something.

Without even getting into the fact that most people who don't like the new mechanic don't want to ruin anybody's fun by having the FSS changed, they just want the option to run the two systems separately. The strawmen army returns.

And that's why this is the third thread about this that I won't bother posting in again.

 

[Sterling MH]

The ADS is not going to return no matter the caterwauling.

And make your mind up. Either the ADS is easier and you are bent out of shape because your exploration is slower or the new FSS is better because AFTER SPENDING TIME ON IT it provides more information.

That you still refuse to be honest about your "arguments" show that your raging is merely a figleaf for your trolling.

 

[Arubeto]

However, if I take the trouble to fly to a body to resolve it, rather than sitting still and playing a minigame, I think it's reasonable that I get credits and tags.

You sound as if flying towards a planet to scan it requires more "work" than playing the mini game, with which I strongly disagree. Pointing the ship towards a planet that has been revealed and then going for a walk or a drinking a nice cup of tea demands less from the player gameplay wise than even the easy mini game that the FSS is.

 

[Arubeto]

Why reduced in range?
I get that you don't like unlimited range, but that should apply to the FSS as well. I don't see why the replacement ADS alone should have that limitation.

I did write in the first part of your quote that I think the unlimited range of the FSS was it's one shortcoming, did I not?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

You sound as if flying towards a planet to scan it requires more "work" than playing the mini game, with which I strongly disagree. Pointing the ship towards a planet that has been revealed and then going for a walk or a drinking a nice cup of tea demands less from the player gameplay wise than even the easy mini game that the DSS is.

Well for a start it demands a whole lot more in terms of time invested.
So why punish someone for taking a long time to do something, rather than the easy minigame?
Playing the unfailable 2 minute minigame is not intrinsically more 'worthy' than spending an hour flying in curves around a system - straight lines are for people who don't understand gravity wells - so doesn't justify an increased 'reward'.

 

[Old Duck]

If you feel that you're also getting vitriolic responses though (and truthfully, I'd say that overall the balance of who is getting what is about 75/25 biased towards those who dislike the new system) perhaps being the bigger man might be a less confrontational way of demonstrating your contempt, as well as being one that's open to less misinterpretation.

I already have a mom, you don't need to volunteer. Odds are that my good buddy Enderby also has a mom and doesn't need you to ride in on your white horse to save him. But I'll let him speak for himself

I've got a list of names that I'll be keeping an eye on when future updates are announced. I only hope for their sake that they manage to keep their toys in the pram at all times because if they don't, they will never hear the end of it from me

But didn't you just say,

I don't usually make the same point a hundred times or more, unless someone repeatedly misrepresents the point I have made.

Angry people I can deal with, even absurd people I can deal with (as long as they are real people and not bots), but creepy uncle stalker people who try to be everyone's mom, you're the kind of folk I tend to, um, ignore.. Just thought I'd give you warning so you don't waste any more keystrokes on me.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I did write in the first part of your quote that I think the unlimited range of the DSS was it's one shortcoming, did I not?

Yes, which is why I don't see why the FSS should be infinite range, but the ADS replacement be range-limited.
Neither or both would seem to be fair.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/6402.html

 

[mojonaut]

https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/6402.html

I miss my '7 Transistor Superheterodyne radio' and listening to radio Luxembourg just after dark.

 

[Arubeto]

Well for a start it demands a whole lot more in terms of time invested.
So why punish someone for taking a long time to do something, rather than the easy minigame?
Playing the unfailable 2 minute minigame is not intrinsically more 'worthy' than spending an hour flying in curves around a system - straight lines are for people who don't understand gravity wells - so doesn't justify an increased 'reward'.

That's the whole problem: you seem to think that having that dreadful old system where you just point towards a planet and primitively fly towards it, not actually playing the game in the meantime for up to several hours is actually a respectable type of gameplay and that a player should be "rewarded" according to the amount of time he wastes with such a deployable placeholder of a gameplay mechanic? Well, ok, then I will request to be properly "rewarded" for sitting idle on my landing pad for an extended time period next time, admiring the beautiful interior of some space stations. I guess I will probably invest about the same amount of time and "work" as the average explorer using the ADS for exploration.

And don't get me started with your gravity wells. Yes, you might shave ten seconds from that two hour nonsense trip, but it's definitely not required to reach a planet or any other stellar body in a system.

Edit: if I appear like a "hater", it's just because I hate the old ADS exploration system so much. Has nothing to do with you or anyone else taking part in this discussion!

 

[Arubeto]

Yes, which is why I don't see why the FSS should be infinite range, but the ADS replacement be range-limited.
Neither or both would seem to be fair.

Really? I thought me saying the unlimited range of the FSS (which I sadly keep mistyping as "DSS" on my phone - not a harmless typo in this context ) was a problem made it clear that I think it should be changed to not having unlimited range? After all, isn't that what one does with a problem? Solve it?

 

[Old Duck]

Really? I thought me saying the unlimited range of the FSS (which I sadly keep mistyping as "DSS" on my phone - not a harmless typo in this context ) was a problem made it clear that I think it should be changed to not having unlimited range? After all, isn't that what one does with a problem? Solve it?

I'm curious, because I agree - how does Frontier limit the range? We need to be able to know something is out there. Perhaps the "blue blobs" appear for everything, but we can't zoom in on the really far ones (those mythical 500,000 LY systems) until we close the gap?

 

[jasonbarron]

Prime example right there ^

'desperate haters', 'whinging' etc. Because expressing an opinion about something must be 'whinging' and people who dislike a particular game mechanic are 'desperate haters' not people who just don't like something.

Without even getting into the fact that most people who don't, like the new mechanic don't want to ruin anybody's fun by having the FSS changed, they just want the option to run the two systems separately. The strawmen army returns.

And that's why this is the third thread about this that I won't bother posting in again.

 

[Arubeto]

I'm curious, because I agree - how does Frontier limit the range? We need to be able to know something is out there. Perhaps the "blue blobs" appear for everything, but we can't zoom in on the really far ones (those mythical 500,000 LY systems) until we close the gap?

I think that's a good question and makes me realize that the unlimited range is the main problem I have with the ADS. I also don't like it about the FSS. But if we MUST have an exploration scanner with unlimited range I would much rather take the new one with some semblance of gameplay instead of the old mega honk, effectively being the most simple and primitive way to implement body discovery within a system that FD could come up with.

 

[Riverside]

Really? I thought me saying the unlimited range of the FSS (which I sadly keep mistyping as "DSS" on my phone - not a harmless typo in this context ) was a problem made it clear that I think it should be changed to not having unlimited range? After all, isn't that what one does with a problem? Solve it?

Parallax searching becomes harder the more distant an object is (it moves less relative to the background stars). Both old & new have infinite range within a system because without it those distant binaries would realistically not regularly be found.

Part of the justification for the new tools is to motivate players to scan more stuff & find all the neat things hidden in the game. It has been very effective at this, to the extent that there is now arguably not enough variety in the things of interest to find.

Restricting the ways in which things can be found goes against that goal. Had the ADS not had infinite range I can imagine that an updated process that did find these distant binaries would be a welcomed feature.

 

[Wrecked]

Way to totally misunderstand what I was saying and take it to the extreme. These are things added on top of the existing game to to enhance it. For exploration, it is a pseudo realistic type of a sensor system that you might imagine someone on the bridge of a ship using to tune into the frequencies of the bodies around a system. It gives a layer of realism and interest to the game beyond just "zoom, pew pew". For mining, it would serve the function of making life easier in terms of finding specific ores you might be looking for, allowing you to hone in on the exact thing you're looking for. It has nothing to do with simplifying or abstracting the game, but more with adding layers of enhanced play and interesting yet useful functions.

The new systems are amazing and add so much more engagement to the game. It's a shame logical arguments like yours often get bulled over by the 'old man who hates change' mentality of the player base. It always comes off so backwards and unenlightened. As if change is always bad.

 

[Red Anders]

I already have a mom, you don't need to volunteer. Odds are that my good buddy Enderby also has a mom and doesn't need you to ride in on your white horse to save him. But I'll let him speak for himself

<quotes of my post>

Angry people I can deal with, even absurd people I can deal with (as long as they are real people and not bots), but creepy uncle stalker people who try to be everyone's mom, you're the kind of folk I tend to, um, ignore.. Just thought I'd give you warning so you don't waste any more keystrokes on me.

I thought that including a at the end of the sentence would have made it clear that I wasn't being entirely serious. I also have no idea what Enderby has to do with anything; I commented because your attitude put my back up. If that makes me a 'creepy uncle stalker person who is trying to be your mum' I can only sympathise with how dysfunctional your family must be.

Really out of this now because I suspect neither of us are going to cover ourselves in glory by prolonging it.

 

[Andovar]

and it's become another trainwreck...

i suspect the mods will be tossing this mess of a thread in the dumpster fire soon.

 

[Ulysses_W]

and it's become another trainwreck...

i suspect the mods will be tossing this mess of a thread in the dumpster fire soon.

I suppose those of us who dare to voice our dislike of the FSS should just crawl back under the rock we crawled out from.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I think that's a good question and makes me realize that the unlimited range is the main problem I have with the ADS. I also don't like it about the FSS. But if we MUST have an exploration scanner with unlimited range I would much rather take the new one with some semblance of gameplay instead of the old mega honk, effectively being the most simple and primitive way to implement body discovery within a system that FD could come up with.

The problem with limiting range in either/both systems is that you're left to parallax as the only method for discovering objects beyond that range, which requires flying in straight lines for long distances in what is now essentially a random direction - which is exactly the thing people have been complaining about with regards to the ADS. A potential compromise would be for distant objects to be identified as gravity wells, but neither the ADS nor FSS can resolve them into bodies until the range is reduced. That gives some meaning to the flying around and makes spotting distant objects off the system plane viable, rather than just luck.

Regarding gameplay and the 'honk':
For me, the gameplay is what comes AFTER the honk, not the honk itself. The tools ADS or FSS provide a context in which I explore the system - I don't want them to perform the exploration for me. This is why I find the old honk and SC method much more engaging than the FSS minigame.

As I've said elsewhere, I consider discovery and exploration to be two distinct activities and while the FSS makes discovery more engaging it essentially destroys exploration. Whether your preference is for exploration, discovery or both, will determine which tools are more appropriate for your playstyle. But all playstyles should be equally valid, which means that all methods should be capable of achieving the same end result.