If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Just like someone who thinks flying 500,000 Ls to spend 15 seconds watching a scan complete is emergent and exciting gameplay

Emergent? What's that got to do with anything?

Exciting? No, not really, but ENJOYABLE it certainly was, otherwise I wouldn't have spent several thousand hourd doing it.

Neither the FSS nor the ADS can be considered 'hard', not least because neither of them actually have a failure condition.
Parallax exploration is the only hard-mode available.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Amen to to that, couldn't have said it better.

Out of curiosity, how are you getting to planets to perform the surface scan?

 

[Yure]

Which is only a variation of the hoops we had to jump through before - fly into a system, honk, fuel scoop, look at the system map, fly towards the first dot, slow down, wait for the DSS, fly to the next dot, rinse and repeat. Scanning a system of 25-40 bodies in this manner could take hours, especially when half the system was in orbit of a star 160,000 Ls from where you came in. Now that same system can be scanned before my ship is even done scooping fuel, and I can see in the results things like "Oh, there are geysers here, and this planet has a chemical makeup of materials I actually need, guess I'll fly here, map it, land, check out the geysers and collect some materials", instead of flying all the way out the butt-end of a system to find the only planet that has the material I need is another 140,000 Ls in the direction I came from, but in orbit of the other star.

So what's it doing for me? It's making better use of my time, better use of my efforts expended, providing systems that are at least interactive (frequency tuning and surface mapping), instead of passively sitting there, waiting for a scan to complete while drool dries in my lap. I guess if dried drool is your thing, than sorry for your loss, but it's my gain.

Another one who seems to think being able to detect biological sites on a planet 500,000 Ls away is 'hard mode'.
Honestly, spending 30 seconds pretending you're Spock doesn't make you a chess grandmaster.

Nope, but it does make you smarter than the guy biege patrolling an immense area for anomalies which follow no actual scientific placement. :-D

 

[Yure]

Which is only a variation of the hoops we had to jump through before - fly into a system, honk, fuel scoop, look at the system map, fly towards the first dot, slow down, wait for the DSS, fly to the next dot, rinse and repeat. Scanning a system of 25-40 bodies in this manner could take hours, especially when half the system was in orbit of a star 160,000 Ls from where you came in. Now that same system can be scanned before my ship is even done scooping fuel, and I can see in the results things like "Oh, there are geysers here, and this planet has a chemical makeup of materials I actually need, guess I'll fly here, map it, land, check out the geysers and collect some materials", instead of flying all the way out the butt-end of a system to find the only planet that has the material I need is another 140,000 Ls in the direction I came from, but in orbit of the other star.

So what's it doing for me? It's making better use of my time, better use of my efforts expended, providing systems that are at least interactive (frequency tuning and surface mapping), instead of passively sitting there, waiting for a scan to complete while drool dries in my lap. I guess if dried drool is your thing, than sorry for your loss, but it's my gain.

They replaced it with a even more easy mode instant scan check for ELWs mini game. Hurray!

LOL! At the end of the day we are all still just moving the cursor around and clicking buttons.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Out of curiosity, how are you getting to planets to perform the surface scan?

We talking about the infos i get once i scanned the celestial body with the FSS or the added bonus i get if i map it on top. Sorry i have to ask, but surface scan with the new system is a rather "old" term to me.
If we talk about the first and take into consideration i would have no Detail Scanner Equiped in the old system - i don't move at all. If we compare old Detail Scan with mapping a body, its the same. I will have to fly to it, even closer compared to before.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

We talking about the infos i get once i scanned the celestial body with the FSS or the added bonus i get if i map it on top. Sorry i have to ask, but surface scan with the new system is a rather "old" term to me.
If we talk about the first and take into consideration i would have no Detail Scanner Equiped in the old system - i don't move at all. If we compare old Detail Scan with mapping a body, its the same. I will have to fly to it, even closer compared to before.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm repeatedly told that 'flying long distances in SC is boring', so I was wondering how those people who hated doing that with the old system are managing to shoot probes at planets.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

The reason I'm asking is that I'm repeatedly told that 'flying long distances in SC is boring', so I was wondering how those people who hated doing that with the old system are managing to shoot probes at planets.

Well, at least personaly i would not say flying long distances is boring. Part of the job at times. But doing repeatedly so... well, yes. To grab your point, the advantage for me with FSS is that i have multiple stage choices. Just to give a hint what i mean, here the pattern i run atm:

Fly into a system,refuel, get some distance to the star and honk. At this point i decide if i want to scan the system at all. If not, i jump. If i do... next stage, scanning the whole system. After i have done that i decide again. Do i go for "Detail Scans" aka mapping at all, do i only map the most promising candidates, or don't i map anything at all. The main difference to me is - in the old system i got stage one aka the honk. Stages 2 and 3 were almost the same and only dependent if i had a DSS or not. With the new system i actually have stages 1 - 3 and at each point i can decide if i want or wan't not. And on top, stage 1 and 2 don't require me to fly to each and every celestial body to get the interesting data. Only if i decide to map i have to fly to any of those.

And to me, thats the QoL aspect. Regardless of what i find, at times i simply want to make some milleage instead of mapping the most interesting bodies. And on the contrary, i do take my time, at times, to scan everything if its not a super huge system, even if the system does not consist of things like ELW, WW or other high value targets.

 

[Garbarrage]

The entire Dangerous Discussion board is full of repetitive threads.

I think this is common to most gaming forums. It's why I hardly ever post in them anymore.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Uhm... thanks but no thanks to that. Engineers already improved that part already by alot. And i am not even flying one of those super jumper ships. Only a Clipper that is able to do a modest 42ly in its current fitting. Which is more than enough for me.
As for the rest... well, guess no point in arguing. I mean, i did almost all of my Elite Explorer Ranking with the old system and before it was boosted as well. Still i prefer the FSS as QoL update compared to the old ways. If i go out exploring, i wanna see the cool stuff. Places that look interesting regardless what the money counter says, could care less about that one. With the FSS its up to me at every point to decide what i do. Scan planets or just move ahead, scan them to see if there are some interesting looking ones or even ones that have interesting data, decide if i gonna map some or not.

The further this topic goes, the more i get the feeling its less about ADS vs. FSS, but more about "What is exploring". That however might be only me... who knows. To me however, and in the end, its about enjoying myself. And right now thats something that the new FSS system does better compared to the old ADS.

Doing a lap around the galaxy in a 45 Ly Beluga. The more I jump the more I see, the more I see, the more I scan, the more I scan the more I discover and the more I discover, ultimately, the more I earn.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Doing a lap around the galaxy in a 45 Ly Beluga. The more I jump the more I see, the more I see, the more I scan, the more I scan the more I discover and the more I discover, ultimately, the more I earn.

Aye, exactly what i think about it. The more people go for ships that can jump huge distances, the more there is inbetween for me to find [up]

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Aye, exactly what i think about it. The more people go for ships that can jump huge distances, the more there is inbetween for me to find [up]

But in the end you can only scan X systems in a certain amount of time. The distance between the systems doesn't matter. You will scan the same amount of systems in a 15 ly or a 75 ly jump-range ship.
There are so may system in the galaxy that is absolutely doesn't matter. It might get difficult close to the bubble to find undiscovered systems and there a longer jump-range ship is an advantage to get out of the exploration halo around the bubble.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

But in the end you can only scan X systems in a certain amount of time. The distance between the systems doesn't matter. You will scan the same amount of systems in a 15 ly or a 75 ly jump-range ship.
There are so may system in the galaxy that is absolutely doesn't matter. It might get difficult close to the bubble to find undiscovered systems and there a longer jump-range ship is an advantage to get out of the exploration halo around the bubble.

Ugh... there are enough systems anyways, at least if one stays off the main traveling routes.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well, at least personaly i would not say flying long distances is boring. Part of the job at times. But doing repeatedly so... well, yes. To grab your point, the advantage for me with FSS is that i have multiple stage choices. Just to give a hint what i mean, here the pattern i run atm:

Fly into a system,refuel, get some distance to the star and honk. At this point i decide if i want to scan the system at all. If not, i jump. If i do... next stage, scanning the whole system. After i have done that i decide again. Do i go for "Detail Scans" aka mapping at all, do i only map the most promising candidates, or don't i map anything at all. The main difference to me is - in the old system i got stage one aka the honk. Stages 2 and 3 were almost the same and only dependent if i had a DSS or not. With the new system i actually have stages 1 - 3 and at each point i can decide if i want or wan't not. And on top, stage 1 and 2 don't require me to fly to each and every celestial body to get the interesting data. Only if i decide to map i have to fly to any of those.

And to me, thats the QoL aspect. Regardless of what i find, at times i simply want to make some milleage instead of mapping the most interesting bodies. And on the contrary, i do take my time, at times, to scan everything if its not a super huge system, even if the system does not consist of things like ELW, WW or other high value targets.

My problem with the new system is that stages 1 and 2 are both performed by the FSS, leaving only stage 3 - which is mostly redundant unless you're collecting bark mounds for some reason.
With an ADS-style populated System Map/Nav Panel I'd be able separate them by the flying around part (which is where I get my sense of 'exploring' from) and then make the decision on whether or not to do stage 3 when I get there.
Keeping it an entirely optional module means it doesn't mess with anyone else's gameplay, while allowing me (and others like me) to get our exploring rocks off.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

My problem with the new system is that stages 1 and 2 are both performed by the FSS, leaving only stage 3 - which is mostly redundant unless you're collecting bark mounds for some reason.
With an ADS-style populated System Map/Nav Panel I'd be able separate them by the flying around part (which is where I get my sense of 'exploring' from) and then make the decision on whether or not to do stage 3 when I get there.
Keeping it an entirely optional module means it doesn't mess with anyone else's gameplay, while allowing me (and others like me) to get our exploring rocks off.

I can respect your opinion. I am merely here to express mine that i do like the new system, even while i see that it can be improved further. If there can be a best of both worlds that would satisfy most players, who am i to be against it.
But you know what i really hope? I hope they expand the new anomaly system:

http://prntscr.com/m49j04

http://prntscr.com/m49jpw

That was the second anomaly i found today and it was exactly that when i felt... yea, i am exploring. Not just cataloging celestial bodies, but to find all kind of strange stuff. I really hope they expand on that regardless of the rest.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I can respect your opinion. I am merely here to express mine that i do like the new system, even while i see that it can be improved further. If there can be a best of both worlds that would satisfy most players, who am i to be against it.
But you know what i really hope? I hope they expand the new anomaly system:

http://prntscr.com/m49j04

http://prntscr.com/m49jpw

That was the second anomaly i found today and it was exactly that when i felt... yea, i am exploring. Not just cataloging celestial bodies, but to find all kind of strange stuff. I really hope they expand on that regardless of the rest.

The more stuff there is to find, the less the tools need to be the gameplay.
I just hope that the interactions we have with these weird things expands beyond shoot n scan.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

The more stuff there is to find, the less the tools need to be the gameplay.
I just hope that the interactions we have with these weird things expands beyond shoot n scan.

In that regard, we are on the same page. I really hope for more, more meaningfull, at times even more dangerous. Something we explorers can say "Whoa, look at what i found!"

 

[Burke]

"Whoa, look at what i found!"

I used to get that off the system map all the time

 

[Riverside]

The FSS is great, and I'm glad FDev replaced the easymode instascan-check-systemmap-minigame with it

I can understand why a miniscule amount of players don't like the new mechanic, which is why I suggested a workaround - for those players that must have an insta-system-layout within 10 seconds of drop-in.

If only those that don't like the FSS could constructively communicate their ideas together.

Your black body proposal is outdated StuartGT. The new process has changed & a compromised ADS alternative is no longer needed. It may be wanted by some, but no reduced functionality is required for balance between the two discovery modules. Both can work together offering different slices of the cake.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's just that the FSS isn't what ED is "about" for some of us. If what you want to do is drop out of the cockpit to a 2D "app" with blue blobs and zoom in and out then you're going to be over the moon.

At this rate the next release will bring us jump gates...

The FSS still isn't what ED is about. It's a tool, just like a weapon in combat. I never really understand these posts. ED is about whatever you want it to be whether that is exploration, combat, mining or trading.

 

[lenna]

What's your preference for surface POI discovery?
Mine is 'hotspots' so I can still explore, without needing to cover the whole surface.

There are MANY ways they could have implemented it - space golf was the worst way IMO.