Oh god, really: I'm not looking for supporters, can we just talk about things differently, as they should be? All the problem in here is that we're looking for allies or foes or anything else. Let's talk about the game mechanics, just for this time. -.-
Powerplay Whatever happened to the Powerplay Open only Proposal (POOP) ?
- Thread starter zarrazee
- Start date
You know... given the recent announcement about the April update and the introduction of a Supercruise autopilot, I'm almost tempted to support PPOO. Shooting slow moving freighters whose pilots are watching Netflix while Frontier approved bots autopilots fly their ships is sounding rather good right now. 
(keyword here is almost)
(keyword here is almost)
Ahahah yeah I understand of course. In fact if you notice I just made a point about first how that would help bots to be harder to spot, then how the actions done by FDev against the phenomenon are not effective, especially if they only move as a consequence of a report. I really don't care if people don't want to fliy their ships in supercruise. I care about bots.
I find it interesting that every time you don't want to answer a reply with logic you accuse people of "being a troll" and such... you've done it to Agony Aunt multiple times and now myself because clearly you did not like the answer you were given so when you can't deal with that you try slander? You claim that I had not read the rest of the rest of your thread (which is a wrong assumption), but you don't even realize that you contradict yourself... and instead of understanding your error you try and label me a troll. And by the way I was responding to what you said specifically, nice deflection attempt though.
But lets go on to something else you said just underneath your last "comment" to me...
One of your biggest desires as you state is, "game mechanic for Open Players to measure their ability as a team against each other." Which Open players can use CQC to do and fight each other as a team and it gives you the recognition you claim to want. Yet you did go on to say, "A game mechanic that would measure the effectiveness of a particular gamestyle, which is Open Play, which is not just PvP, with a strong focus on player interactions, being those cooperative or oppositive." You claim Powerplay is great for this, but is it really? Because for one Open Play isn't a game style, it is a game mode. PVE adn PVP are styles of gameplay, playing by yourself or with others is a game style and are not utterly mode specific. And if you seriously think Powerplay is great for it I think we have a vastly different view of what the word "team" means. People joining a Power don't join a team... even if it was open only, you join a side. You have people all over the power doing their own thing solo, or people working together, but there is no overall coordinated effort. Plus add in the 5C discussion and where are your "team" goals and all now? I was an analyst and Powerplay wouldn't give you any accurate measure of effectiveness... you know what would... again CQC... you get a good coordinated team and you can rock it and it would give you reliable data, accolades, etc and be something you can crow about. Moving Powerplay from All modes to "just" Open would NOT change any of the factors that POOP proponents want.
You can try and label me as some sort of "wannabe-saboteur" yet what am I saboteuring? And if you don't think I am "worth any attention" why respond?
If you don't think there's coordination or cooperation in Powerplay then it's proof you really don't know what you're talking about. If I only think about how many sheets I did because of Powerplay.
You still keep separating PvE and PvP, as two totally different things, honestly I can't find any other way to say that, I'll try again.
I wish for Powerplay to become a game mechanic in which people can be involved in both PvE and PvP activity (which CQC would not provide), in a large scale warfare game (again: not CQC material), where players pledged to the same side (if you like it better) have to complete PvE tasks for that side (because rewarding PvP activities would result in exploits, as happened in the past when undermining was linked to piracy) with PvP as a disruptive factor against those PvE tasks with the purpose to generate emergent gameplay which couldn't be experienced in an environment where such conflict could be easily evaded by doing those tasks in private or solo mode. I would rather like for this game mechanic to be placed in Open or in a dedicated Game Mode (a sort of Powerplay Private Group), if people like that better, making that a completely disconnected game from the rest of Elite (as CQC is, the only similarity I can found). Nobody would be forced to be involved in that because things like Powerplay modules would be transfered to tech-brokers. This mechanic should have different rules (to make 5C useless), a variability of tasks (basically Powerplay missions, to give bots an hard time) and possibly a balancement designed to enhance the possibility of conflicts between players in border systems, the all thing possibly with a reward system somehow similar to the old Community Goals, with increasing rewards to the players considering how many CCs a Power gain through the cycle.
About the technical changes I did my part in the brainstorming process in the past, but it's OT material in this thread. This thread is only focused in the game mode in which Powerplay should be played (not the whole game, just Powerplay).
Oh and I accused you of trolling because you wrote with all those "huh" and "....." and stuff like that, so you were trolling or you had some serious problems in that post alone. I just supposed that you were trolling because I hope you were ok back then (and the fact you answered as a functional human being this time proves that, please continue like that).
You'd have to go through the PP design discussion archive for when most of us told them 5C was a bad idea and they informed us it wasn't.
I never kept those links, as the WoI didn't exist back then.
But they were adamant "clandestine" play was part of it.
Frontier was told this a long time ago.
I completely agree.
It was what, a few weeks in and we could see just how badly PP was going to cope with 5C
I remember it was what made me swap to a more casual approach towards PP and just use it for the toys rather than for defending Princess Blue.
As has been pointed out time and time again, mode locking will not fix the core issues.
But if you really must go that way, then remove it from all modes and make a PPM.
Not only will you see that 5C doesn't change, but you'll end up with fewer players as not everyone playing PP want to be social.
For the last time: it's not to fix 5C (it's kinda OT in here, if you are interested to we could talk about how to deal with 5C by changing the rules in some other thread). A new dedicated game mode would be good enough.
Well, that's been the excuse for Open Only for 2 years.
Because all other avenues of poor excuses were debunked a long time ago.
Especially when Frontier said Solo balances Solo, PG balances PG - so the whole "modes give an unfair advantage" got shot down.
Frontier said the majority of players play in Open - so bye bye "everyone hiding in Solo" excuse.
Then you add on the fact XB1 and PS4 are also separate instancing with people who don't have the premium on those still doing PP.
Throw in the poor networking with P2P, heck I just need to run Netflix and I lose 2/3 of the player base. Good luck stopping me when I'm busy watching Star Trek Discovery because my mate up the road cannot instance with me when I do that.
Open Only would never work, a dedicated mode won't either and we'd just get more complaints about lack of population.
Even with a dedicated mode, the moment Orange is the New Black drops a new season, you're still not going to see me while I play.
But at least if Frontier were to submit to the idea of a PPM, the rest of the game can carry on as normal and they can just ignore PP like they do CQC
And again: this is not what's being talked in here. Why are you still talking about the Open/Pvt/Solo thing when I keep saying that's not the point.
If you don't think there's coordination or cooperation in Powerplay then it's proof you really don't know what you're talking about. If I only think about how many sheets I did because of Powerplay.
You still keep separating PvE and PvP, as two totally different things, honestly I can't find any other way to say that, I'll try again.
I wish for Powerplay to become a game mechanic in which people can be involved in both PvE and PvP activity (which CQC would not provide), in a large scale warfare game (again: not CQC material), where players pledged to the same side (if you like it better) have to complete PvE tasks for that side (because rewarding PvP activities would result in exploits, as happened in the past when undermining was linked to piracy) with PvP as a disruptive factor against those PvE tasks with the purpose to generate emergent gameplay which couldn't be experienced in an environment where such conflict could be easily evaded by doing those tasks in private or solo mode. I would rather like for this game mechanic to be placed in Open or in a dedicated Game Mode (a sort of Powerplay Private Group), if people like that better, making that a completely disconnected game from the rest of Elite (as CQC is, the only similarity I can found). Nobody would be forced to be involved in that because things like Powerplay modules would be transfered to tech-brokers. This mechanic should have different rules (to make 5C useless), a variability of tasks (basically Powerplay missions, to give bots an hard time) and possibly a balancement designed to enhance the possibility of conflicts between players in border systems, the all thing possibly with a reward system somehow similar to the old Community Goals, with increasing rewards to the players considering how many CCs a Power gain through the cycle.
About the technical changes I did my part in the brainstorming process in the past, but it's OT material in this thread. This thread is only focused in the game mode in which Powerplay should be played (not the whole game, just Powerplay).
Oh and I accused you of trolling because you wrote with all those "huh" and "....." and stuff like that, so you were trolling or you had some serious problems in that post alone. I just supposed that you were trolling because I hope you were ok back then (and the fact you answered as a functional human being this time proves that, please continue like that).
Just for note I use Huh and ... a lot, but it isn't trolling, and I was a functional human than as I am now though I am a bit tired.
Where did I say there was no coordination or cooperation in powerplay? I did say there was some, but you seem to have this view that ANYONE who joins a side is working together and coordinating and I'm sorry but that is hogwash. I do actually know what I am talking about, it is one of the reasons I am in this discussion.
I could be wrong, but The ONLY difference I am seeing right here with your description of Open Only Power Play vs what we have now is PVP as a disruptive factor doesn't always happen. Even IF Open Only PP existed it would not happen as much as some seem to think. You claim this isn't about PVP... yet the ONLY real difference you want is PVP everything else you say, and there are some good suggestions, does NOT require it to be OO and could be implemented into the Power Play system currently in place. Plus proposing to take a part of the game away from all the rest of the subscribers to just benefit a few is like taking the ability to jump neutron stars from all modes except Solo, or only allowing wings to be formed in Private Groups.
And I will say this... If griefing is perfectly acceptable as I've heard over and over and over (and strangely from POOPs and just plain OOPs) then 5C is as well. Why would you get rid of it? I mean you can recover from it just like those griefed or ganked up upon can recover... you just have to work at it.
Because it actually is relevant when you add in POOP.. especially since some like to use the "balance" claim to say the modes are not balanced already so doing PP only in OO wouldn't unbalance the modes when in fact it would in a HUGE way.
You think Lugh has been a Mahon supporter because the PP players wanted it? LOL!There's nothing stopping me playing as a goaltender in NHL 19, and deliberately letting the oppositions goals in, because I'm actually their seventh man, want them to win and theres no mechanics to stop me doing it.
Clearly working as intended.
Go try finding any mention of 5C tactics in the 1.0 instruction manual for Powerplay. To save you time, it's not mentioned once. To me that suggests FD did not intend it to be a valid game choice.
Since all Powers monitor other powers fortifying, prep etc we've got to know whats random and whats co-ordinated 5C. Its pretty obvious when it happens.
Please do enlighten me how mode agnostic Powerplay would not turn into a greater grind than it is now with no fort caps. People can't get enough of that grind.
OK, so you are saying its OK for Man United to have players on Chelseas team, play a match and score own goals to get Chelsea to win? PP is asymmetrical, and to make up for the lack of numbers in a smaller power you need to use skill- last time I checked ED was a game about piloting spaceships.
you just have to work at it
Yes, when someone fortifies 20 of your systems, undermines 20 of the good ones, spends almost a billion credits in the prep, and you never see anyone to 'thank', sure you can work at it. 5C is cheating by tickbox- I suppose your answer would be to buy more and more FD accounts for more votes?
Its the players who stuck with PP that have found this out and tried to prevent it. The SCRAP system for example?
You are confusing discussion about what we have now with what is possible with Open Powerplay. Sandros preamble about what he thought Open Powerplay should be is what a lot of us here are outlining.
How can it be 'mindless pew pew' if that is a co-ordinated attack in an Open Powerplay? If anything in a mode agnostic PP you can't do much more than 'mindless pew pew' grinding merits against brain-dead NPCs or haul endlessly like Sisyphus while watching a bar go up.
No, i'm debating. If you don't want to debate any more, all you have to do is not reply. Simple.
Now you are asking if FD know whether 5C should be classed as cheating? LOL, ok man, whatever.
As for your final sentence, maybe everyone should 5C then, bring PP to its knees, and see if that gets them to do something.
After all, you won't know until you try.
No, you are derailling the topic and trying to be flippant. Since M.Brookes flat out lied about Collapse not being in the game (and it being mentioned in the instruction manual for PP) you can write off anything FD say about Powerplay. If 5C is 'so good' why did Powers set up SCRAP? Why is it every so often after long and horrible bouts of 5C you get tacit declarations you will never 5C? Why is there no mention of 5C in the manual?
Its the headbanger way it seems.
Whether 5c is or is not a valid part of Powerplay isnt the point. It was never intended to be the be all & end all, the only effective attack mechanic in the game.
Open-only powerplay doesnt give any absolute solutions by itself, but it is a key part of any other measures having benefit.
Im not bothering with detailed explanations because those who say POOP have left no doubt as to their fanatical opposition to all things open in the last few pages when they thought they had one guy cornered and attempted to troll him to silence. The vitriol is transparent, true colours on full show. It's disgusting to see. Youre just trying to grind him down with misconceptions and irrelevancies. It would take hundreds of pages to unravel all the and youre not worth the effort of engagement.
Just one point on all that, do you lot really think some occasional circlejerking and grandstanding on a forum gives you any comparable experience or knowledge to someone who's led one of the Powers for years, and walked the walk, day in day out for years? Youre deluded, and if you had a trace of perpsective or conscience you would appreciate your irrelevence and leave this discussion, just as we made no effort to railroad or interfere in the exploration or mining updates.
Youve had yours, enjoy it, and stop trying to derail something of which you have a pitiful lack of understanding.
Any of you can take that as personally as you wish, i dont care. Some of the angles taken in the last few pages are despicable.
Open-only powerplay doesnt give any absolute solutions by itself, but it is a key part of any other measures having benefit.
Im not bothering with detailed explanations because those who say POOP have left no doubt as to their fanatical opposition to all things open in the last few pages when they thought they had one guy cornered and attempted to troll him to silence. The vitriol is transparent, true colours on full show. It's disgusting to see. Youre just trying to grind him down with misconceptions and irrelevancies. It would take hundreds of pages to unravel all the and youre not worth the effort of engagement.
Just one point on all that, do you lot really think some occasional circlejerking and grandstanding on a forum gives you any comparable experience or knowledge to someone who's led one of the Powers for years, and walked the walk, day in day out for years? Youre deluded, and if you had a trace of perpsective or conscience you would appreciate your irrelevence and leave this discussion, just as we made no effort to railroad or interfere in the exploration or mining updates.
Youve had yours, enjoy it, and stop trying to derail something of which you have a pitiful lack of understanding.
Any of you can take that as personally as you wish, i dont care. Some of the angles taken in the last few pages are despicable.
Please show me the exact option that allows 30 odd players to fight in an expansion in CQC. I can't find an FdL, Corvette, FAS or Clipper to fly either in CQC. Please show me these options too.
An Open PP has the potential to enable proper team based tactical combat.
You do both. You join a side and join a team just as people support player factions and form squadrons.
Really? Go check out exactly how the powers pull off attacks then. A recent example was my power doing BGS work for a month to lower an expansion trigger undetected, and then prep snipe it, and expand it. Nope. No co-ordination there.
The weekly goals are pretty clear, FD gave us perks and a leaderboard (if only they told us how it works though).
You countered this:
FD are now trying to stop 5C with updates
By saying:
FD said 5C is legit
One statement is current, one is from four years ago. Which one do you think was triggered after four years of player experience?