Drag Munitions

1) No, drag previously simply made your ship 'behave' as though it had 0 pips to eng. The pips were not actually changed and therefore, recharge of boost energy was not affected, nor was boosting itself, apart from a minor pitch/yaw/roll debuff from the effective 0 pips, but they get such a boost from, er, boosting, that this was trivial. Drag was not totally useless before, but it was underwhelming to say the least.
Would PvPers be okay if DMs did actually "disrupt" the pips to engines (0 pips)? It seems the best of both worlds between old DM model and new one, as you'd still get a few boosts under DM, but you would need to use them carefully because once the capacitor is drained, that's it until DM wore off.

The way you describe the old drag, it sounds almost completely useless against ships with good capacitors and boosting capability. I'd be better off throwing toilet paper at enemies chasing me.
 
That would be a more sensible change, but the effect would be the same, just take a little longer to apply (instead of preventing the opponent boosting immediately, it would mean that from the first hit, the opponent has a finite number of boosts left, let's say 2 for someone using cluster capacitors on their PD).

Regarding your second paragraph, yes, that's exactly how it was/is viewed.
 
Ha, if you think that's bad; the dumb fire missiles can be engineered to block FSD jumps.

Quite sure that blocking the Seeker missiles is exactly what the ECM is made for.
 
I don't see the problem with changes to drag munitions. Most will be playing with alt. accounts in the starter systems now, without engineered modules. Finally a engineer-free ecosystem.

cheers
DZ
 
Regarding your second paragraph, yes, that's exactly how it was/is viewed.

Well, I quite enjoyed the placebo effect of believing DMs affected boost all this time. I'm pretty sure I said out loud, "Take that you dirty griefer!" as I spammed their FDLs with DM seekers, a big grin on my face. Now the illusion is ruined forever, unless of course FDev keeps the recent changes.

Ignorance IS bliss :D
 
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Ha, if you think that's bad; the dumb fire missiles can be engineered to block FSD jumps.

Quite sure that blocking the Seeker missiles is exactly what the ECM is made for.
I have, to date, never been hit by another player with a dumbfire missile. :) As for the ECM, it has a far longer cooldown than seeker launchers do, meaning that to carry one means you used a whole utility slot to block one missile or maybe 2. Another shield booster would serve you better in pvp and another chaff in pve.

It's frags that are going to be the problem. Already a krait with 5 gimballed frags is a tough boat to beat (for anyone), now they can just change one special to drag and be 50% more effective (remember the Krait has permaboost).
 
Isnt there alredy a cool down?

This seems to be a response to perma boost. So all you faoff permaboost fdl pilots will have to adapt to this change i suppose.. might make thing a bit more interesting at least lol

I cant off hand remember how long the cool down on drag munitions is but its long enough to get a boost or two in before it ends im sure.

I have concerns about wider implications, to large ships, for example, i mean i would have just addresed the permaboost issue head on rather than from the side like this but i have come to just accept that this is the way of things now

Like people have 20mins or more to kill each other any way. the slog fest of just emptying your ammo reserves into each others shields and then jumping out will remain the same perma boost or not, so its a bit of a non issue in the grand scheme of thing IMO.
 
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Isnt there alredy a cool down?

This seems to be a response to perma boost. So all you faoff permaboost fdl pilots will have to adapt to this.

I cant off hand remember how long the cool down on drag munitions is but its long enough to get a boost or two in before it ends im sure.

I have concerns about wider implications, to large ships, for example, i mean i would have just addresed the permaboost issue head on rather than from the side like this but i have come to just accept that this is the way of things now

Like people have 20mins or more to kill each other any way. the slog fest of just emptying your ammo reserves into each others shields and then jumping out will remain the same perma boost or not, so its a bit of a non issue in the grand scheme of thing IMO.
Well, you have a point, but... It heavily reduces flight skill as a factor, and empowers pure gimp loadouts (packhounds, the last thing we need is more packhounds) which is kinda backwards, really. Now it will be the same except all happening at point blank range with no real avoidance in play and everyone using at least one frag. I therefore assert that any change that immediately requires everyone to implement it or be ineffective, cannot be a 'good' change.
 
Don't draw a conclusion so fast I'd say. When the cool down of TLB came, no one knew by an announcement from FDev. But yeh it's FDev we're talking about.

When you’ve been on both ends of Drag Drives from all the ways it can be delivered it’s not difficult at all to imagine how bad this change is.
 
Well, you have a point, but... It heavily reduces flight skill as a factor, and empowers pure gimp loadouts (packhounds, the last thing we need is more packhounds) which is kinda backwards, really. Now it will be the same except all happening at point blank range with no real avoidance in play and everyone using at least one frag. I therefore assert that any change that immediately requires everyone to implement it or be ineffective, cannot be a 'good' change.
Some times things have to realy brake to get fixed, i mean should boost be the full story on evasion? Probably not but the acceleration of ships is not different enough to count in a world where we can boost all day. So we boost all day.. the small ship to large ship speed and acceleration diferential should be enough to off set the firepower and defence diferential but its not..

Alot of people only care if it effects them so the more people it negatively effects the better hopefully they will unite in there cause and start trying to improve things as a whole rather than just for them selvs and the rampant lack of ballance and interesting/dynamic combat that has arisen from all this will be a addressed and not shot down the second some one looses a MJ or two from there invincible ship. Hay, i can dream lol
 
It's one of those things where it doesn't affect you until it does. It's a skill level thing. I understand how arrogant that sounds, but I promise it's not intentional, it has to do with how the mechanics of boosting and flying FA Off work, especially in ships that have crappy pitch to make up for their incredible boost (FDL, mamba, krait), in those ships, boosting is pitching, boosting is changing direction, boosting is how you put yourself in a position to fire on the other guy while he cannot fire on you. For sure, the average PvEer (the HUGE majority of players, like 90% of them), will be unaffected and in fact will find this a positive change, as it will seriously curb the boost happy NPCs, but once again you're in a situation where a single special effect is so powerful (even in pve) that to run without it is to be at a significant disadvantage. That in and of itself is evidence that this is a poorly considered implementation.

example...my CZ loadout is now going to include a single large turreted rapid fire drag frag, I know my ship is faster than the enemies without boost as I have G5 dirty drag drives, so I pull up next to the NPC, and I start firing my regular guns. During this time my frag turret is emptying it's chamber every 2 seconds without me havingn to do anything, so the NPC is stuck at cruise speed (slower than my cruise speed). The NPC will not be able to get away from me, I can just follow him nonchalently at 80% throttle and let the turret do the work (it will never miss an opportunity to fire) while occasoinally firing a few PAs to speed things along if I get bored.
 
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I use FAoff, but i'm not an FAoff "lord" by any stretch. My response to this change will be to make sure DM is a standard experimental on all my PvP builds, just like scramble is now. Doom avoided. :D
 
But the npc will be able to boost in the cool downs, i know this is but a momentary pause in the process but this is the case with any npc fight, they will die its inevitable the how is just a matter of taste.
 
I'd be pleased if those of you in the know would explain the implication of the change in 'simple' language that one such as I might understand as reading through the patch notes thread is a bit like reading a technical manual...

The fundamental implication, if the patch notes are literally correct, is that if someone doesn't take drag frags and/or seekers, but their opponent does, they won't be boosting much at all, but their opponent will. Since boosting is a pretty potent ability to have, this, in turn, means that essentially everyone will be running drag; balance will be achieved...via the absolute worst way possible.

There are a mountain of false choices already baked into combat outfitting. The decision of whether or not to use drag munitions would be yet another.

Outfitting decisions that have already been made for you is a trend ED has long had and it seems the more options we've got on the surface, the fewer of those options are actually options. We wind up with 'meta' where viable alternatives are increasingly few and far between.
 
Well Frontier could give everyone a free size 1 hardpoint for our new drag frags. Hey, they did it for the docking computer!

(Yes I know this is a terrible idea. Sarcasm is all I have left these days.)
 
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