I think I will wait to see how its implemented before making a decision on whether it's good or bad.
Drag Munitions
- Thread starter fus roh potato
- Start date
Would be nice FDev gave us an Easter bonus and double the range of all FSDs.
Not quite. The change will still be shipped and maybe patched out next update.Dang. Doom averted AGAIN I guess. * sigh *
Nice, means I get to test the soon to be Imperial Lightning Bolt. Imperial Courier +800m/s Frag n Seeker Dragusmaximus.
The whole issue with this summed up in one sentence for me...
FD, over the past few years, you've been inflating and inflating defense at ten times the rate of dps inflation. If I sit and think about this, it makes sense, so that a lesser skilled player or a player with little theirycrafting knowledge can survive a gank. OK, that's laudable I suppose even if the result is that pvp fights take 20 mins. Fine, we accept that.
Now, you completely take away any chance of anyone surviving a gank (not just newbies, but top players too, now!!), and leave us with the insane defense inflation? WHAT. THE. HELL. Where's the logic?
FD, over the past few years, you've been inflating and inflating defense at ten times the rate of dps inflation. If I sit and think about this, it makes sense, so that a lesser skilled player or a player with little theirycrafting knowledge can survive a gank. OK, that's laudable I suppose even if the result is that pvp fights take 20 mins. Fine, we accept that.
Now, you completely take away any chance of anyone surviving a gank (not just newbies, but top players too, now!!), and leave us with the insane defense inflation? WHAT. THE. HELL. Where's the logic?
Really? You cannot possibly conceive of a way to hi-wake your ship with 'insane defense inflation' if you cant boost? The option to hit that one button and jump away with impunity is really 'completely taken away'?
Okay.
Ridiculus as it sounds, I dont think this drag thing is even compareble to stupid heat meta while it was ongoing. Broken? A bit, maybe. But I love the drama already. Especially if no one had witness it how actually it works out yet. NO ONE. Before complains like that, atleast anyone who complain so far (all of u "PVPers") should to wait to see how it actually is in game, make some vids how easy u can kill gank someone with it (compareble to before), before makes stupid complains about something that aint is ever seen yet.
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Its the DD forums, where everything is always the end of the world, griefers will run wild and all hope is lost. Permaboost is pita and has completely destroyed the flight model ED once had. Escaping a gank was easy as heck, and still is. As long as hit points will be so massive and you can always hi-wake in seconds none will change in that aspect.
It will change PvP combat though, so I suspect the PvP crowd is just trying to scare the rest into a forum revolt. Noone with even half a month of experience in this game can honestly claim it is 'impossible to escape a gank!!!!!'.
But it's definitely more difficult after that drag update then before, your health pool must be sufficiently high to survive the highwake timer at least twice, which wasn't the case before, when you could evade the inevitable grom bomb with boosts. With ships that didn't need to boost before (T9 etc.) nothing much changes, but for smaller ships which partly relied on nimbleness this really makes it more difficult.Its the DD forums, where everything is always the end of the world, griefers will run wild and all hope is lost. Permaboost is pita and has completely destroyed the flight model ED once had. Escaping a gank was easy as heck, and still is. As long as hit points will be so massive and you can always hi-wake in seconds none will change in that aspect.
It will change PvP combat though, so I suspect the PvP crowd is just trying to scare the rest into a forum revolt. Noone with even half a month of experience in this game can honestly claim it is 'impossible to escape a gank!!!!!'.
Well, I have a number of big ships with drag packhounds fitted specifically to slow down smaller, faster and more agile opponents (in PvE), so that I can either run away or line up and shoot the irritating little blighters. And they haven't been all that effective at that.
So I'd like to see what impact this change has.
Perhaps FDev feel that smaller, faster ships can currently "control the engagement" a bit too easily. Going up against a bigger opponent ought to carry some risk, and suddenly not being able to run away would add an element of peril...
So I'd like to see what impact this change has.
Perhaps FDev feel that smaller, faster ships can currently "control the engagement" a bit too easily. Going up against a bigger opponent ought to carry some risk, and suddenly not being able to run away would add an element of peril...
Do really think me or my ships are representative of the average person who gets ganked? If course I could survive, I'm not worried about me, the defense inflation wasn't implemented for 'me'.
As a pvper I have to suffer the consequences of defense inflation implemented for the weak, which I had accepted, now they made it so the weak have not a single chance and I still have to live with the defense inflation, see my point?
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Will have to wait until the servers come back up to see if there is a cool down or not.
There has never been a counter to effects that frags can apply, other than staying out of range.
If anything, pure FA off evasion will be hit harder than pure FA on evasion because it's even more dependent on boosting for rapid changes to movement vector.
Challenge accepted.
I agree.
However, the fix to this issuse should not have been a single special effect available on two weapon types; it should have been a change to the boost mechanisms themselves, or a reduction in the effectiveness of distributor Engineering.
OK, 'anyone' was a bad choice of words.
Sorry I missed your chat the other day by the way, good to hear you'll be back soon, I'm looking forward to a duel.
Just a question, as I don't know what I am asking (not a PvP player).
Wouldn't the changes to drag effect as posted (as there is no clarification to cooldown etc.) simply make it so that those who are genuinely interested in PvP have to rely on skill more, or have I totally misunderstood? If having a drag experimental on every ship is 'forced' doesn't it simply force player skill to be the determining factor?
Not going down the 'gank' path as that is a total minefield anyway.
I'd be pleased if those of you in the know would explain the implication of the change in 'simple' language that one such as I might understand as reading through the patch notes thread is a bit like reading a technical manual...
Thanks
Wouldn't the changes to drag effect as posted (as there is no clarification to cooldown etc.) simply make it so that those who are genuinely interested in PvP have to rely on skill more, or have I totally misunderstood? If having a drag experimental on every ship is 'forced' doesn't it simply force player skill to be the determining factor?
Not going down the 'gank' path as that is a total minefield anyway.
I'd be pleased if those of you in the know would explain the implication of the change in 'simple' language that one such as I might understand as reading through the patch notes thread is a bit like reading a technical manual...
Thanks
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken
FDev loves clear and simple solutions.
I'm going to use this thread to ask my questions, because I've been making the noob assumption that Drag Munitions have been disabling boost all along. So here we go (the following questions are based on pre-update behavior):
I personally use DM in PvP as a defensive measure more than I do for offense. My Dolphin or Sidewinder (typical ships I use for running PvP blockades) will never destroy a typical griefer, but seekers with DMs is a good "kick to the knees" to slow a pursuer down long enough for me to get some distance and charge my FSD. I'm sure there are counters (especially since boost is not affected, much to my surprise), but luckily most griefers I encounter in the game don't have the level of expertise demonstrated in this forum, so this tactic actually works for me. Anyway, the more I know about DM the better I can use it. Thanks!
ps - this is posted under the assumption that Frontier will reverse their decision to nix boost.
1) Apparently DM does not prevent boost, but does it limit boost exactly like 0 pips to engines would? In other words, no recharge on the capacitor implies only a couple of boosts.
2) Does FA-off with DM effect behave like it does with 0 pips to engines? In other words, can I boost with FA-off and still achieve max speed even while DM effect is active?
3) Does subsequent DM hits reset the effect counter, add to the effect counter, or does the counter just keep counting until DM wears off? I ask regarding the potential use of DM to keep an enemy in a permanent state of "drag".
I personally use DM in PvP as a defensive measure more than I do for offense. My Dolphin or Sidewinder (typical ships I use for running PvP blockades) will never destroy a typical griefer, but seekers with DMs is a good "kick to the knees" to slow a pursuer down long enough for me to get some distance and charge my FSD. I'm sure there are counters (especially since boost is not affected, much to my surprise), but luckily most griefers I encounter in the game don't have the level of expertise demonstrated in this forum, so this tactic actually works for me. Anyway, the more I know about DM the better I can use it. Thanks!
ps - this is posted under the assumption that Frontier will reverse their decision to nix boost.
1) No, drag previously simply made your ship 'behave' as though it had 0 pips to eng. The pips were not actually changed and therefore, recharge of boost energy was not affected, nor was boosting itself, apart from a minor pitch/yaw/roll debuff from the effective 0 pips, but they get such a boost from, er, boosting, that this was trivial. Drag was not totally useless before, but it was underwhelming to say the least.
2) You can always achieve max speed regardless how many pips you have to eng. Boosting always puts you at max speed for an instant, even with throttle zero. Drag does not affect this in old or new implementation (assuming that the drag effect hits you after you boosted). The way it's worded MAY indicate that a current boost will be 'disabled' or cancelled by a drag hit, but you still have slow down time, so this will ineffectual, imo.
3) Hard to say until we test, but I feel confident it will work like this...you hit the drag effect, and the effect prevents boosting for 5 seconds AND makes it as if there are only 0 pips to eng. Whether or not there is going to be a cooldown before the affect can be applied again is one of th big questoins. If the effect stays, then the cooldown should be huge, like 30 seconds minimum, more like a minute. I find it unlikely that a subsequent hit during the effect would reapply the effect and reset the timer, that would be ultra and isn't how the effect works now.
It is completely possible that hitting a boosting ship cancels the boost, and that reapplying it resets the timer so you can perma-disable someone, we just don't know yet, I would normally say it's safe to assume that these things will have been considered by devs, but when you look at this change overall, it's hard to believe that anything has been considered.
HTH