Space Force Presents: Operation Drag Queen

[Phisto Sobanii]

Then what’s the problem? The real, actual problem? Is it the dread of having to change out all those hard points on those ships and the need to have to click all those Upgrade buttons again to outfit a new weapon system?

It's the fact that it will likely become a dominate weapon in Open and it isn't very fun to use or experience. It's a bad change, period.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The new mechanic isn't very fun in a 1v1 situation. You get hit with drag, drift out 3-4km, not fighting your opponent. When I fought BigMaec I went with the most cheese FDL build I could. Bi-weave shield tank meta with three gimbal multis and two seeker racks with drag. He flew a Krait with frags and yielded at 30% hull. I had a dim ring of shield.

Neither of us are top tier PvP pilots by any stretch of the imagination but we are competent. It was the most unsatisfying victory I've ever experienced. Neither of us had very much fun.

How about you go throw on some Drag Munitions and let us know how you like it? Do you have Ryder or Nemo unlocked? I'm sure some folks could help you out if you don't!

Thanks for the feedback, this is what i was asking for.

I do plan on getting some of the new drag munitions at some point to try out on NPCs (but will have to wait for FD to fix it), although maybe by then FD will have changed it. I do have Nemo and Ryder unlocked. But for now and for the coming month i'm driving around a planet. Its not such an issue for me that i need to play with it right now. I can get all the feedback i need from the forums.

 

[SushiCW]

You know, you could make this point without losing goodwill by simply changing your tactics to disabling your target or bringing them to the brink of death, then pasting in a message explaining what just happened and asking for their help. No need to actually explode them to prove your point.

Just sayin'.

 

[Interstellar Overdrive]

Then what’s the problem? The real, actual problem? Is it the dread of having to change out all those hard points on those ships and the need to have to click all those Upgrade buttons again to outfit a new weapon system?

No.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Thanks for the feedback, this is what i was asking for.

I do plan on getting some of the new drag munitions at some point to try out on NPCs (but will have to wait for FD to fix it), although maybe by then FD will have changed it. I do have Nemo and Ryder unlocked. But for now and for the coming month i'm driving around a planet. Its not such an issue for me that i need to play with it right now. I can get all the feedback i need from the forums.

Until you try it for yourself in game against both NPCs and players you've got very little to contribute.

I'm sure there's plenty of folks willing to fight you on the PvP front. Swing by Colonia, if you like, and we'll get a friendly match in. Doesn't even have to be to the death. I'll go as far as you like.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm saying that doesn't matter. You're only bringing it up in an attempt to shame them and muddy the issue. Second time you've done it in this thread.

Are you actually interested in helping the game, Agony? Straight up asking here, because right now your points looks like to me someone who just really shouldn't be listened to in regards to its future.

I can't shame gankers, if they feel shame for their actions, i presume they would not be gankers. I certainly would feel shame if i ganked someone, but different folks.

Yes, i'm interested in helping the game, although my opinion on what will help the game might differ from your own. For example, harsher punishments for killing unwanted CMDRs might help the game. Or open PVE mode might help the game. I've given my opinions on those in other threads. As for the topics of drag munitions, overall it doesn't look good, and i've given my feedback on that here and in other threads.

In this thread though, i'm mainly laughing at those who are claiming to be interested in helping the game by ganking people.... something they do anyway, and will continue to do regardless.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I can't shame gankers, if they feel shame for their actions, i presume they would not be gankers.

No, you're blowing a dog whistle and you know it. "See! Anti-Drags are also Open zealots! They just want to grief harmless Commanders and ruin the game. See! See!"

Stop it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Then what’s the problem? The real, actual problem? Is it the dread of having to change out all those hard points on those ships and the need to have to click all those Upgrade buttons again to outfit a new weapon system?

The real issue is thatif this is OP, everyone will stick a flak turret on their pvp boat, fights will be very frequent 'drag state' so the net effect is the game just became slower. That means its less about skill and more about tanking, which isnt fun. The effect should be a useful option, not an obvious must-have.

Its a legit complaint, but only relevant to a small subset of players. Which is why the wolves spend so much time trying to make the sheep concerned.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That sorta kinda happens on it's own when you go back through pages of a thread trying to figure out what it was you're talking about. Gods forbid you make it easy for any of us - or is that the point?

Frankly, I think you're just mad you got caught saying some pretty ridiculous stuff and got rightfully meme'd for it.

Nope, not mad, but you are right! My edit wasn't saved. My bad.

Anyway, as i explained, i have nothing against the git gud guides and were not referring to them. I actually think Rinzler does some good any funny guides.

The propoganda machine is the threads like these, the ones where they big up what they are doing as though its some sort of altrusitic motive, when all it is is another variant on what they always do.

 

[Krash]

Is there a White Knight group with the skills and engineering to use the new drag vs the Space Force? That would be a demonstration of the OP of this effect. Call it the revenge of the Scrub Force.

 

[Interstellar Overdrive]

Care to expand on that monosyllabic response?

Would it make any difference?

 

[Slange Lands]

I don't gank, bake cookies for my neighbors, am very polite and love PvP.

Boosting is one of the most fun things one can do in an engineered ship.
The speed!
The Maneuverability!

Drag munitions basically decreases the amount of boosting one can do in a fight.

Fights become vastly less fun and the fights are more likely to be based on who has the most megajoules. We just sit there dragged, like sitting ducks firing salvos at each other instead of merrily chasing each other all over the place.

Drags = NOT FUN
Drags = CHASTITY BELT

Drags is akin to reducing jump range across all ships by 1/3
Drags is akin to reducing cargo space across all ships by 1/3
Drags is akin to painting with only 12 colors instead of 18

Regardless of what Fdev may do, many of us NICE PvPers will refuse to use them. It's a matter of honor now.

Boosting enables acrobatics in piloting, it is an art form.

o7

 

[Interstellar Overdrive]

The real issue is thatif this is OP, everyone will stick a flak turret on their pvp boat, fights will be very frequent 'drag state' so the net effect is the game just became slower. That means its less about skill and more about tanking, which isnt fun. The effect should be a useful option, not an obvious must-have.

Its a legit complaint, but only relevant to a small subset of players. Which is why the wolves spend so much time trying to make the sheep concerned.

Agree except it is relevant for everyone.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

No.

Wow, a whole one-word non-answer.

Absolutely door.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You guys are really missing the point here.

With these new changes this doesnt give people the chance to improve. Yeah, some of those guys already got nuked before. But now, not only will those same guys die. But they wont know why. They wont have the chance to out maneuver.

This has caused a ripple effect and in turn makes a lot of other modules stronger. Very strong as a matter of fact.
Believe it or not this is not just about drag. Or the same people dying.

You have to give the chance for people to improve. This also removes tons of skill that is required to learn how to improve.

Remember when we played super mario bros? And we kept falling in the same hole, or died to the same turtle over and over again? Over time we figured it out and got better.

This removes that capability. Skill is not rewarded. Its straight up murder for for anyone on the other end.
Please take the time to think this through and stop being so shallow.

So basically, you are saying, people who died before in 5 seconds... will still die in 5 seconds... so they don't get a chance to improve.

Tell me, what chance do groups like SDC usually give to their targets to improve?

Do they perchance, attack people, take down their shields, hit their hull a bit, then break off to send comms to explain to people what they have done wrong and how they can fix it? Do they use their ganks as teaching moments?

Or, do they, perchance, blow noobs up, laughing all the while, and thinking with glee about all the salt they just caused. If there is any chance for comms, they just tell people to git gud scrub?

Please, do tell me which approach they use to helping people to improve?

 

[Interstellar Overdrive]

Wow, a whole one-word non-answer.

Absolutely door.

At this point you are just refusing to understand. It has all been thoroughly explained.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

The propoganda machine is the threads like these, the ones where they big up what they are doing as though its some sort of altrusitic motive, when all it is is another variant on what they always do.

You read Ryan's "How to Build" a PvE or PvP ship guides?

 

[Vedmo]

I don't gank, bake cookies for my neighbors, am very polite and love PvP.

Boosting is one of the most fun things one can do in an engineered ship.
The speed!
The Maneuverability!

Drag munitions basically decreases the amount of boosting one can do in a fight.

Fights become vastly less fun and the fights are more likely to be based on who has the most megajoules. We just sit there dragged, like sitting ducks firing salvos at each other instead of merrily chasing each other all over the place.

Drags = NOT FUN
Drags = CHASTITY BELT

Drags is akin to reducing jump range across all ships by 1/3
Drags is akin to reducing cargo space across all ships by 1/3
Drags is akin to painting with only 12 colors instead of 18

Regardless of what Fdev may do, many of us NICE PvPers will refuse to use them. It's a matter of honor now.

Boosting enables acrobatics in piloting, it is an art form.

o7

Flying anything but a combat ship in open means gutting jump range and cargo by a third for survivability.

My favorite pve combat ships (Chieftain & mk4) I enjoy so much because I can generally maintain position without constant boosting. After limited testing, drags is fine by me, but if it is really going to have such a negative result on the enjoyment of others, I'd be fine with some changes too.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

At this point you are just refusing to understand. It has all been thoroughly explained.

I could thoroughly explain string theory or temporal dynamics at the subatomic level and you could well be sitting there scratching your head going “I don’t get why this is a concern.” But if you don’t say so, and just nod, sheeple style because everyone else does, you’re not doing yourself any favors, are you?

My short term memory isn’t so great, and I have no desire to try to pick through 20+ pages of this to try and divine the real and actual issue here.

My attention span won’t tolerate it either, so take an entire 30-60 seconds and explain what the actual, real problem is for my benefit, and perhaps the benefit of anyone else who happens on this thread, glances down page one, skips to the last page and still has no idea what anyone is going on about here.

 

[Exeider]

Seems to be fairly on-point though. If you're threatening to act like a d*ck, expect to be called one.

True though, but in this case, at least it's for a reason. Most gankers are just d*cks for no reason. So I'll give him points for the "activism" bent. not alot of points but points nonetheless

I am allowed my opinions and I have made, what I think you'll find, is an accurate summary of your post. If I have however made a mistake in my interpretation then feel free to point it out. Unless you have already played with these changes, then you are making an assumption based on one line of text, and already threatening FD and players because of it.

I personally find it refreshing, and more conducive to conversation actually, that's why I like these forums in particular. The mods here will call it like it is, discuss things cordially, eh for the most part, and will actually try to debate things rather then just say "I'm right.... LOCK" or "Here's a ban for making me look stupid."

Too many times I get hamstrung (ham-stringed?) by moderators who abuses their authority by going for the 'gotcha' over a technicality when the real reason is they just disagree with me, and either policy dictates or they are just cowards.

But not here though, I can actually have a cogent conversation and allow myself to be honest without feeling like I have to step on eggshells, so there's that at least.