Powerplay Whatever happened to the Powerplay Open only Proposal (POOP) ?

[Jikesaijo]

David did toss out the possibility of stealing other people's ships way back in 2012. Obviously one can't hold FD accountable for every single bit of theorycrafting over the years, but they did at least have that kind of adversarial PvP ship stealing in mind as something they'd be interested in doing.

like in x3 even no multiplayer that is actually great feature

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Actually, Sandro did not give the Open only option in response to 'PvP'ers [that] never shut up'. It came as a surprise to everyone and Sandro explained the thinking behind it.



On everything else I agree with you- but Powerplay is about denying enemies of materiel and tactical opposition.



Then why did Sandro come out of nowhere with that suggestion?

I think you are right in that FD did air the idea because they thought it had some merit and not because people wouldn't shut up about open only.

On the other hand, there is a small but vocal group who never shut up about making things open only

 

[Rubbernuke]

On the other hand, there is a small but vocal group who never shut up about making things open only

And to point out too Sandro kept on saying (twice, three times even) this is for Powerplay only.

 

[Brrokk]

And to point out too Sandro kept on saying (twice, three times even) this is for Powerplay only.

He did. But in this very thread we keep reading that "Of course the block function will have to change too". Things like that make the whole idea feel like part of a bigger agenda.

Here's a test I propose. I will support OOPP if the people who want it agree to support the introduction of Open-PvE (which of course wouldn't allow PP) at the same time. Would we have a deal?

 

[Rubbernuke]

He did. But in this very thread we keep reading that "Of course the block function will have to change too". Things like that make the whole idea feel like part of a bigger agenda.

Of course its got to change, only to stop people blocking you for the perceived crime of shooting you in a mode that is about / would be about shooting you at some point.

Its not some crazy agenda, its simply logical reasoning. The rest of the game would not change, it would have all the modes available as there are now.

 

[Brrokk]

Of course its got to change, only to stop people blocking you for the perceived crime of shooting you in a mode that is about / would be about shooting you at some point.

Its not some crazy agenda, its simply logical reasoning. The rest of the game would not change, it would have all the modes available as there are now.

OK, since you rejected my proposed deal I remain opposed to OOPP. Unless anyone else will take me up on it?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

OK, since you rejected my proposed deal I remain opposed to OOPP. Unless anyone else will take me up on it?

I will

Actually, i think the chance of FD doing OOPP is minimal and the chance of them doing Open PvE mode is ten times less.

What I simply want, should PP go open only, is the complete removal of all traces of PP from PG/solo, and that includes the impact PP has on the BGS, such as the need to flip systems to make them more favourable to PP (can use a similar argument the OOPPers have used - why should my game be affected by people in a mode i can't see for a feature I can't participate in if i don't choose to play in that mode?). No PP contacts, no PP map filter, no effects applied from PP on systems. If a black market should open because of Archon, its only open in Open, not in PG/solo. No discount in Li Yong systems in PG/solo. etc.

If FD did that, made it a non-event for PG/solo, i could live with it.

It would also be great for bounty hunting in RES and nav beacons as PP NPCs would no longer be taking up spawn slots.

Then the OOPPers can sit there bragging about their acomplishments in PP, and those of us who play in other modes can say "What PP? Doesn't exist, its completely irrelevant"

 

[Jockey79]

I will

Actually, i think the chance of FD doing OOPP is minimal and the chance of them doing Open PvE mode is ten times less.

What I simply want, should PP go open only, is the complete removal of all traces of PP from PG/solo, and that includes the impact PP has on the BGS, such as the need to flip systems to make them more favourable to PP (can use a similar argument the OOPPers have used - why should my game be affected by people in a mode i can't see for a feature I can't participate in if i don't choose to play in that mode?). No PP contacts, no PP map filter, no effects applied from PP on systems. If a black market should open because of Archon, its only open in Open, not in PG/solo. No discount in Li Yong systems in PG/solo. etc.

If FD did that, made it a non-event for PG/solo, i could live with it.

It would also be great for bounty hunting in RES and nav beacons as PP NPCs would no longer be taking up spawn slots.

Then the OOPPers can sit there bragging about their acomplishments in PP, and those of us who play in other modes can say "What PP? Doesn't exist, its completely irrelevant"

The only catch with this is, what about people who want to socialise?

Open is the only place people can freely meet other people when I'm in Open I'm not there to PP I'm there to see who I meet.
Also, if PP is being forced on everyone in Open, it's not "consensual" PvP. As those trying to socialise are having to put up with PP.

Which is why I keep saying PP should be moved to its own mode disconnected from the BGS, that way if people genuinely want to do PP with like-minded folks they can.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The only catch with this is, what about people who want to socialise?

Open is the only place people can freely meet other people when I'm in Open I'm not there to PP I'm there to see who I meet.
Also, if PP is being forced on everyone in Open, it's not "consensual" PvP. As those trying to socialise are having to put up with PP.

Which is why I keep saying PP should be moved to its own mode disconnected from the BGS, that way if people genuinely want to do PP with like-minded folks they can.

Not sure i understand. If you are in open to socialize you don't need to sign up for PP.

 

[Arry]

Of course its got to change, only to stop people blocking you for the perceived crime of shooting you in a mode that is about / would be about shooting you at some point.

Its not some crazy agenda, its simply logical reasoning. The rest of the game would not change, it would have all the modes available as there are now.

I disagree with removing the blocking function, on the grounds that it forces a player to 'stay' another players game content. It is a choice to play in open and take the hits; but to have to come back after a re-buy and get hit again and again; if I choose to play in open, is just not on. Yes the get gud crowed will demand I 'stay out of open' if I don't want to get my ship blown up, repeatedly. Having the block option, taken away, will simply drive people to leave the game and play else where.

I am not saying that players have the right, not to be harmed or face the re-buy screen. Far from it, you play in open, you take the risk and MUST be able to afford to replace your losses, but the blocking function is there and should remain. Other wise, those who just wish of make other, weaker players, their game content, will just drive out the guys, that are just about managing to break even.

Like it or not: there are players and player groups that spend most of their time; looking for easy kills and will continue to kill the same players, again and again; until they are driven into, an apparently lesser mode, of the game, or driven into leaving the game itself. Just because a few bullies, want to have fun.

Of course, we could have the 'bullies' banned from the game. If asked, F.D. 'can' see what has been happening and if a player in a big ship, is repeatedly killing the same player, in a little ship; then they get a couple of strike warnings and then face a ban; for not understanding, that bullying, is just not acceptable.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I disagree with removing the blocking function, on the grounds that it forces a player to 'stay' another players game content. It is a choice to play in open and take the hits; but to have to come back after a re-buy and get hit again and again; if I choose to play in open, is just not on. Yes the get gud crowed will demand I 'stay out of open' if I don't want to get my ship blown up, repeatedly. Having the block option, taken away, will simply drive people to leave the game and play else where.

I am not saying that players have the right, not to be harmed or face the re-buy screen. Far from it, you play in open, you take the risk and MUST be able to afford to replace your losses, but the blocking function is there and should remain. Other wise, those who just wish of make other, weaker players, their game content, will just drive out the guys, that are just about managing to break even.

Like it or not: there are players and player groups that spend most of their time; looking for easy kills and will continue to kill the same players, again and again; until they are driven into, an apparently lesser mode, of the game, or driven into leaving the game itself. Just because a few bullies, want to have fun.

Of course, we could have the 'bullies' banned from the game. If asked, F.D. 'can' see what has been happening and if a player in a big ship, is repeatedly killing the same player, in a little ship; then they get a couple of strike warnings and then face a ban; for not understanding, that bullying, is just not acceptable.

When I meant mode I was referring to Powerplay, sorry for being confusing on that- I should have used the word 'feature' instead.

Outside of Powerplay I agree with you, blocking is important. But inside an Open Powerplay you assume the risk by pledging, and have to accept people are out to get you. In Powerplay blocking should not be used as a proxy shield- it could be that if you are destroyed you are deinstanced from your attacker to avoid repeated losses. This might be based on the disparity in ranks, where the greater the disparity the more chance of being matched elsewhere.

 

[Jockey79]

Not sure i understand. If you are in open to socialize you don't need to sign up for PP.

But I would be forced to interact with those doing PP, wouldn't I?
You know, when I'm just pottering about to be sociable I suddenly get pulled over by someone wanting to "check" I'm not carrying PP cargo or collecting merits.
The fact I'm not aligned doesn't seem to matter, I get pulled over for those reasons anyway.

And if I'm not allowed to enjoy PP, why should I be forced to endure others playing it?
Put it into its own mode and Open can be the social mode and PP can be the consensual PvP mode.

That way, these people who are so "concerned" with outside influence get what they want, a special mode for PP where no one can "hide" from them.
And the rest of us can carry on without having it forced on us either. A solution for everyone.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But I would be forced to interact with those doing PP, wouldn't I?

Heaven forbid!

You know, when I'm just pottering about to be sociable I suddenly get pulled over by someone wanting to "check" I'm not carrying PP cargo or collecting merits.
The fact I'm not aligned doesn't seem to matter, I get pulled over for those reasons anyway.

How many times has this happened to you? Once? Did they destroy you? Where did it happen- was it somewhere contested?

And if I'm not allowed to enjoy PP, why should I be forced to endure others playing it?
Put it into its own mode and Open can be the social mode and PP can be the consensual PvP mode.

And if I'm not allowed to enjoy PP, why should I be forced to endure others playing it?

What part of Powerplay do you enjoy that others ruin provoking this bitter statement?

Open can be the social mode

I don't get what you think Open should be, or why Powerplay has somehow tainted it. You can be social in all modes, and Open will be dangerous regardless of Open Powerplay.

That way, these people who are so "concerned" with outside influence get what they want, a special mode for PP where no one can "hide" from them.
And the rest of us can carry on without having it forced on us either. A solution for everyone.

I'm having trouble working out what your issues are:

1: You don't want to be shot at

2: Other players can do things that inconvenience you in a shared galaxy

3: Mistaking Open for being rational, and that it contains overlapping player objectives that may conflict with yours

 

[Agony_Aunt]

But I would be forced to interact with those doing PP, wouldn't I?

Well, only in the same way as you might be forced to interact with people doing bounty hunting, mining, exploring, etc.

 

[Arry]

Heaven forbid!



How many times has this happened to you? Once? Did they destroy you? Where did it happen- was it somewhere contested?



And if I'm not allowed to enjoy PP, why should I be forced to endure others playing it?

What part of Powerplay do you enjoy that others ruin provoking this bitter statement?

Open can be the social mode

I don't get what you think Open should be, or why Powerplay has somehow tainted it. You can be social in all modes, and Open will be dangerous regardless of Open Powerplay.



I'm having trouble working out what your issues are:

1: You don't want to be shot at

2: Other players can do things that inconvenience you in a shared galaxy

3: Mistaking Open for being rational, and that it contains overlapping player objectives that may conflict with yours

I have been pulled from SC, a number of times; on the pretence that I am working for an opposing power to the player pulling me (according a the coms statement) and then, instantly blown up. Even though I am not pledged to any power. I even removed the Smurf princess decal, from my ship, but it still happens. I see it as, an attempt of combat merit farming, by brain dead idiots; just out to kill others.

Having a separate mode; just for power play, could be the way forward. Although I disagree with this and the whole argument of power play, removed from the other modes. The thing is, the player killers, will just find another excuse. Plus: If there was just one mode for power play; then to take time out from power play, yet remain pledged because you have to; to accumulate time served. If you with to play in open, not doing anything power play related; my pledge, is just an excuse, for the bullies.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I have been pulled from SC, a number of times; on the pretence that I am working for an opposing power to the player pulling me (according a the coms statement) and then, instantly blown up. Even though I am not pledged to any power. I even removed the Smurf princess decal, from my ship, but it still happens. I see it as, an attempt of combat merit farming, by brain dead idiots; just out to kill others.

Having a separate mode; just for power play, could be the way forward. Although I disagree with this and the whole argument of power play, removed from the other modes. The thing is, the player killers, will just find another excuse. Plus: If there was just one mode for power play; then to take time out from power play, yet remain pledged because you have to; to accumulate time served. If you with to play in open, not doing anything power play related; my pledge, is just an excuse, for the bullies.

So in essence then the issues:

1 Open Powerplay 'locks' you into Open so you face everyone regardless (see point below)

2 Players being territorial and intercepting others

3 Open players (regardless of pledge / alignment) killing others without reason

These last two seems to be more of a problem generally in ED and more to do with C + P than with Powerplay in Open.

Plus: If there was just one mode for power play; then to take time out from power play, yet remain pledged because you have to; to accumulate time served. If you with to play in open, not doing anything power play related; my pledge, is just an excuse, for the bullies.

Open Powerplay works by keeping merits in Open- you can skip to Solo or PG without consequence until you earn or try to haul them. Only then would the 'lock' happen. So, if you had enough claimed merits and rank if you wanted a breather you could.

I agree with you that a unique Powerplay mode is a bad idea, mainly because the flaw you mention (being exposed to either pledges / non pledges) is actually conceptually a good one. Sandro in the past mentioned a 'freedom fighter' mechanic where players who oppose a power (but not pledged) could drive out said power. In an Open context this becomes reality for free because anyone can intercept anyone else. Thus, PMFs can gang up, or be enrolled by, other Powers to do that.

 

[Jockey79]

2: Other players can do things that inconvenience you in a shared galaxy

This would be your reason to force Power Play out of Solo and PGs, so why shouldn't it be my reason to force PP out of the shared modes altogether?

If I cannot play it my way, I shouldn't have to play it your way.
Shove it in its own mode is the fairest solution for those genuinely wanting Power Play.

Those opposed to my idea from what I can tell just seem to want Power Play as a weak excuse to go about ganking in Open.
But we all knew that, so it's not a surprise to see some names screaming against the idea of a Power Play mode while crying over Solo and PG.

Well, only in the same way as you might be forced to interact with people doing bounty hunting, mining, exploring, etc.

Not really, those doing those activities are less likely to pull you out of SC "by mistake", as per Arrys post above.
Plus people doing those activities are not screaming about the block feature either.
So removing PP from Open as well as Solo and PG, resolves the need to mess with peoples block lists.
So the pretend Power Players who use it as a mask for ganking, will have to find a new excuse to moan at FDev over the block feature.

 

[Vankard]

Excuse me, i'm fairly noob at this game, just playing it "seriously" (aka: with friends and more than 5-10mins a day) from 3 days or so....

buuut...Hey, this is a Galaxy Simulator right? And an Ambitious one. The PP part, I really didn't get all the mechanics to it, but in my eyes it brings a LOT for the player community to create game on it. Mercenaries, spyes, Pirates, Police forces, it's just on us players to take a role on that. I find that people who's doing 5C in this kind of game are pitiable...want to do some "inside work"? Well, you could undermine the system, using the gameplay the game give to you. Want to spy? Go socialize with the CMDRS and try to learn when they will be moving and where.

But if PP works in Solo, imho the possibility of gameplay for the entire community is greatly reduced. In Open, I can organize with others commanders, fighting for and in a system, share some fun and having my pixel ship go into pixel space dust as i get outplayed from people who own better equipment, experience, tactis or each. it's part of the game. In Solo, is just *******hit that my action, where nobody can actively do something for stopping it, influence the Online galaxy.

I'm reskilled outside of the station, and lose all my precious CR? Yeah, that's sucks, but in that case i could organize myself, maybe asking from help from some Squadrons who will get the "griefer" out of my system for me, in exchange for 1000T of something valuable. That way i'm creating content and game, without being a supermassive player who can solo an entire wing in an eagle with just 2 lasers, or being a game dev.


To me, this game is full of possibilities, but the community itself can't see it.

Stop ranting about being killed, and out-think the killer, like in any other MMO. Form Alliances, be social, or get good at it, maybe asking the killer how to improve.

But please, don't continue to this futile "war a"bout being able to play an, as I see it, end-game content like PP, who affect EVERYONE, in a safe environment.

PP is a war, and war isn't safe.

 

[Jockey79]

Excuse me, i'm fairly noob at this game, ...


... or get good at it, ...

Perhaps you should "get good" at researching facts before posting opinions?

Power Play was designed and released for all players in all modes, not just for the PvP'ers and gankers in Open Mode.
Try clicking the link the in my sig and going to the Power Play section to learn more and read quotes directly from Frontier.

The whole game is based on each person has the choice on how to play the content, if you want the thrills and spills of Open you are welcome to play all the content in Open. The rest of us, however, are not forced to play YOUR way. If we want to chill out mining, trading or farming merits with friends in a PG or on our own in Solo - that is OUR choice to make, not yours.

This is the whole premise of Elite: Dangerous and has been since the very start;

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/faqs

How does multiplayer work?

You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) some of the other ships you meet as you travel around are real players as opposed to computer-controlled ships. It may be a friend you have agreed to rendezvous with here, or it may be another real player you have encountered by chance. All players will be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” – that is how they are distinguished from non-players – so you will be able to tell who is a player and who is a non-player easily.
You will be able to save your position in certain key places (probably just in space stations, but possibly while in hyperspace too, if we feel it is needed). A save-and-quit option will be freely available at those points, as will the subsequent reload, but there will be a game cost for a reload following player death. Your ship will still be intact in the condition it was when the save occurred, but there will be a game currency charge (referred to as an insurance policy) for this. This is to prevent the obvious exploit of friends cooperating and killing each other to get each other’s cargo. If you can’t pay, then it will accumulate as an in-game debt, and the police may chase you!
There are no multiplayer lobbies, and the game will be played across many servers, augmented by peer-to-peer traffic for fast responses. Session creation and destruction happens during the long-range hyperspace countdown and hyperspace effect (which is a few seconds only), so is transparent to the player.
We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.

This information is from 2012 (the game was released in 2014), Frontier has supported this since day one.
You really should have known this before telling others how to play the game. It's not your choice and never was.

 

[Eridanin]

@Jockey79
I think you took the discussion to a wrong direction totally. So here nobody tells you which mode you have to play but rather about in which mode PP/BGS should have been available.

Yes, you are right, all modes have the same influence on PP/BGS BUT it does not have the same conditions / environment to win. Powerplay and BGS are all about competitions. If you want, it is like Olympic Games where all competitors are supposed to have the same conditions to win (just only skills do matter). But in our case, some sportsmen do use doping (PG/Solo) while others not. Yes, you can say, that this is their choice not to use doping (playing in Open) but I’m for the honest competition (I’m open only 100% in the game).

At the end, why do you haul merits? I believe you want your POWER to win the competition? Then we all should be at the same honest conditions. Do you think it is PG/Solo mode?

fly dangerous, fly open.