Hijack: how do you like Hellion? It looks interesting, but mostly negative reviews on Steam put me off.
Hijack: how do you like Hellion? It looks interesting, but mostly negative reviews on Steam put me off.
I don't have problems either, just that there's some rough edges which show a lack of polish.
VR: Some popup screens are perfectly integrated into VR, for example, the Station Services. Others are just horrible flat panels, for example, the Galaxy Map and System Map, etc.
Widescreen: Galaxy map the info popups are part-way along the screen rather than at the ends. When playing with 3x 4:3 monitors (my original Elite setup), that meant they are split along the monitor bevels. Again, not game-breaking, just small lack of detail.
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Even though I'm not particularly interested in Spacelegs, I really hope that they don't leave VR as an afterthought for it as it appears they did for the FSS (it took a fair bit of nudging to ensure it would work in VR). If it works well who knows, maybe I'll even try it.
Galaxy Map panels irritate me much more in VR than on my 21:9 pancake, because they're way too close. I agree with that.
I'm completely neutral regarding spacelegs and will wait to see how they'll be implemented.
I wasn't really interested in planetary landings, but they did a good job with SRVs and driving. I enjoy driving my SRV when I'm forced to do it.
Sorry I don't understand this line of thought... Why would it raise any questions? Space legs will work exactly the same way as it will for 2D gamers but in VR, just as the SRV does and all other content in Elite does. I'd guess there "may", if VR users are lucky enough, a few additional comfort settings such as snap turning. Outside of that, it'll be identical to the 2D version of space legs and that really shouldn't raise any questions in regards to the Future of VR in Elite.
Motion sickness you say? I doubt that'll be much of a consideration, why would it be? So few end up being effected by it in the long run (I'm sure you'll disagree if you are one of the unlucky few) that most developers are fine developing FP with traditional locomotion based content these days.
Forget motion controls, and be ready to get used to the control binding screen and the standard game pads / keyboard & mouse input methods you left behind. Elite is not a game with a primary focus on VR you will likely never see motion control support in it (as much as we would all like too). 2D will always be the lead platform for development and new features when it comes to Elite.
None of this makes developing "Space Legs" hard enough that FDEV would abandon VR, as with all DLC, it'll be optional content that you play in VR if you want or as with the SRV if you can.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
As a VR user i would love a total VR control system like in lone echo. .... but lets be honest... it is probably not realistic for what is primarily a flat screen game.The biggest issue I'm thinking of is: 'Lone Echo' EVA would be great for VR. How do you replicate it for M/K, controller etc in a satisfying way for the majority? And how do you deal with VR roomscale advantages like being able to 'dodge' slower projectiles (as in Echo Combat etc). Stuff like that.
You can't really add inertia to how someone moves in their own room
but there are systems which can work with both. Teleport is out of course, but either full fat 1st person vr mode as well as Doom 3/ from other suns mode where you sort of walk outside of your body to become a 3rd person mode, before snapping back to 1st person when you stop works really well.
alos the above mode - though it may sound otherwise - does not have any inherant advantages over people playing it full 1st person (if anything it is the opposite).
i dearly hope we get some form of optional hand tracking for shooting guns however - like in fallout vr - tho i am not expecting full on picking up and opening doors etc with our hands (though again doom 3 manages it even as a fan made mod)
Sickness doesn't bother me personally and I would be happy for locomotion to be the same as SRV etc however, have you tried a vr game where your hands in front of you are controlled by a controller not the touch controllers?
Your hands and head have to be detached (even the strongest of stomachs wont handle head movement caused by a controller not actual head movement, and aiming by looking at something is very odd) so using a controller means you have your hands in front of you (think of the old on rails shooters) which makes the experience, at best, strange.
You also need to consider how actual movement works. So, at the moment, you can get up and look at your headless pilot in the cockpit. In FPS do you make it so that you have roomscale movement? does you character go where the physical player does? do you make it so that it's only controller support? in 2d you control your character using the camera the camera walks and has crosshairs attached to it, in VR the camera and the crosshairs are seperate.
There are no FPS games that I know of (and haven't looked far so may deffo be wrong!!) that support 2d and 3d play. Games have been ported such as fallout, skyrim etc but they are always stand alone VR titles.
Sitting in a single seat with your characters hands controller for you is very different from walking around controlling your hands.
Yeah, lots and lots or early VR content that came before touch when the Rift shipped with a XBONE controller and prior.
It's a preference yes. Not a requirement, see Vanishing of Ethan Carter and the numberous other games which work in VR which do not have this option. Non-Detached head / body is more of an annoyance than anything else.
Not really, that is a by product of room scale VR (which was not possible when VR was first implemented in Elite). It is not a feature of Elite. You stand up from your cockpit just like the 2D players will! I.E. you will select an option on one of the UI panels, the screen will fade to black and then back to game with you stood next to your chair.... surely this is obvious... Getting back in your chair will just be the reverse.
Curb your expectations, this is Elite, VR is an add-on much like 3D support is. Any VR implimentation will likely closely follow the 2D one.
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And this is why the discussion exists because you've listed a series of compromises for VR and walking around.
The current implementation does compromise a lot because the 2D game works well as a 3d making it an FPS then adding your suggested compromises:
It's not early VR content so yes it is possible but is a notable downgrade from other VR games
I'd rather not have an annoyance if possible.
I am aware it's not intended that was kind of my point how do you make this movement intended or handle the challenges that it has?
I'm not saying in any way your view on how VR may be implemented are wrong but I would say that, referring to your initial post on this:
An implementation where most things are compromised, to me, is worth discussing because it would reduce my desire to play the game.
The current implementation does compromise a lot because the 2D game works well as a 3d making it an FPS then adding your suggested compromises:
It's not early VR content so yes it is possible but is a notable downgrade from other VR games
I'd rather not have an annoyance if possible.
I am aware it's not intended that was kind of my point how do you make this movement intended or handle the challenges that it has?
I'm not saying in any way your view on how VR may be implemented are wrong but I would say that, referring to your initial post on this:
An implementation where most things are compromised, to me, is worth discussing because it would reduce my desire to play the game.
Errr, ED?
Ahhh stop you with your cunning and clever responses......
I meant first person (walking around carrying a firearm of which you aim at different things through the course of normal gameplay) games - For clarity
I don't have to add inertia to VR, because it's already there silly.
I have to say that I don't see any problems, but maybe I am missing something.
Here's an example of the 'roomscale dodge' in Echo Arena. At 2m37s
So imagine they get a 'unified' control system that allows VR & 'flat' gamers to EVA in a comparable way, the VR guy gets a clear PvP advantage here in being able to move further than the moveset would usually allow.
I'm pretty sure there are a ton of potential issues like this lurking out there.
I'm also pretty sure most of the pro/con imbalances can be overlooked, as we do already with existing disparities between K/M, controller & HOTAS. But given it's such virgin territory FDev will still want to do a ton of R&D to design around & plug up the more obvious issues, I suspect.
Oh I didn't realise Hellion had a 'grabbing' moveset. Cool, will have to look into that. It does feel like a solveable problem ultimately, along with EVA away from architecture. (Just perhaps an area where VR users could be slightly more 'free form').
It's kinda implicit in the tech though right? If someone wants to move about in VR, they can move about... and take their hitboxes with them. Again, I'm sure there are solutions, but it might take a while to find good solutions
Yeah I agree Lone Echo motion is probably a dream too far.
Hand-held weapons etc seems more obtainable. (Honestly I just think go with the 'Onward style' control system, used in FO4 etc too, which allows motion without any real nausea, if done right. That's foot mobility sorted right there. With classic stick control for the hardcore).
i actually think you are probably right on this..... looking at the way things have gone, however i must admit for the longest of times post launch i was convinced the fad to black / teleport thing in ED was just a placeholder waiting for space legs to allow it to flesh out. these days however i am resigned to thinking you are probably right
The VR implementation in Elite is some of earliest VR content available. It came out when the Oculus DK1 was in use.
You really won't get a say, I'll say it again, content is developed for 2D and then made to work in VR in the case of Elite. You'll be lucky to get snap turning as an option. The rest of what you want is just pipe dreams. Just look at the game and the most requested VR changes which have happened in the past 3 years or longer...
It will never be intended is my point, the game is developed from a 2D stand point, you will likely get the same just with VR support slapped on.
My first post was actually about people saying that VR support in this game may be abandonded due to extra efforts space legs would require for VR players to use it. Which as it stands is complete bio waste. As with all other features in Elite it will likely work the same for both VR and 2D users... Sure if we got our "wish list" it would take things to a whole new level and require a lot of extra effort but honestly, looking at this game and how I have seen the VR support grow (or not as the case has been for the past 3 years) I think it's safe to say that you'll get exactly the same as the 2D players do, just compatible with VR. If that reduces your desire to play the game is neither here nor there, it makes no odds really. You don't have to buy the DLC and of course much like the rest of us, we'll wait to see how well the feature / DLC is implemented and will impact on our desire to buy it.
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Indeed and yes if they do just go with 2d replication to 3d I may well skip the DLC. It's whether they view the 2d replication as too low quality and just drop it as they have done for Mac and 32 bit (which I know is different reasons) but I could see that on a major new release for the game if the VR implementation goes from "some niggling issues" to "this is just rubbish" they may decide to not support the feature any longer.
I dont see a reason for fade-to-black for 2D, they already have the animations anyway. But an optional fade-to-black is mandatory for VR for people who get motion sick otherwise.
hellblade has a pretty cool method of getting around transitions in VR, you kind of zoom out of the screen into a cinema mode and watch the cutscene, then zoom back in after
it works better than i make it sound
Mike, I hate "fade to black" in any VR game (and most 2D ones). It is lazy, but just like RE sites I think it is here to say. When I first started playing Elite I had dreams of walking through my ship, walking to a hanger bay and launching a fighter or the SRV, EVA suiting it from my own ship to a friends and then climbing into an actual laser turret and helping him battle when the requirement arose. Then the SRV happened, and it was fade to black, then I activated a SRV turret and it was fade to black and to make matters worse not even manned in first person (holo link meh!), and then.. well multi crew happened and the turrets were 3rd person and holo teleportation was the mechanic used for accessing my friends ship... I doubt space legs will be any different.
Elite in VR has so many wasted oppertunities which could work just as well for 2D and VR players alike, which would make the game much more immersive but those oppertunities were wasted a long time ago.
I fail to see why it would be too low quality and as such lead to abandonment. By your standards it may be to low quality, but many other people will be glad of the chance to walk around their ship, stations and any other location in the game in VR, even if that is with a standard control pad. VR games with controller support can still be great and are great, not everything in VR is about motion controls! Hell Elite is great now, its a controller based VR game and also a seated experience, there is no reason why it would not continue to be great with the addition of an extra vehicle to drive with your control pad - i.e the game character.
You are correct, Mac OS support was dropped for very different reasons and is not remotely relevant to this discussion.
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It's not my standards that determine this it's whether Fdev think it is too low quality like where they got to with fleet carriers and ice planets.
And it's not "not remotely relevant to this discussion" it's actually quite relevant in that they were unable to make MacOS match the quality of the PC, Xbox, PS4 versions but they did have a working version but the investment to get it up to par with the other versions was too much. If they view VR as a lesser version than 2d (Fdev not me......) they have a track record of giving up and cutting losses instead of investing in a smaller demographic of players, which is what VR players are.
Yes different but not irrelevant.
And finally despite you telling us all exactly how it will all work, no one knows at the moment hence the discussion on how it might play out.