PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

[Rubbernuke]

I think it might be the opposite.

Unless PP NPCs can do what players do, then it is cheap. I have never seen an NPC chase me all over, ambush me or push me to my limits.

 

[Robert Maynard]

While on the Reddit the new players always struggled while they learnt.

.... and what proportion of players find the reddit community?

But if no-one is opposing you at all, NPC or player, then PP becomes a blind grind race.

Indirect PvP does seem to be characterised as that by some PvP proponents.

Its because PP is flat and lifeless, and that NPCs are flat and lifeless stuck in disconnected and abstracted layers. Players want surprise and dynamism.

While some players might want surprise and dynamism, not all players play the game for the "rush", nor do all players play the game to engage in PvP.

Which just condemns PP even more. They provide no opposition, and are simply toothless farm animals that occasionally shout at you- so it just becomes who can grind the most rather than actually push back intelligently.

It holds for the whole game, not just Powerplay.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's probably why those modules are retained after defection - if they were lost then players might gravitate to the Power(s) with the "must have" module to the detriment of the rest.

Possibly, but the aim is to have players properly engaged in Powerplay at a non superficial level- having a hundred pledged for the modules is not useful.

Possibly. However players in highly Engineered ships complain of no credible NPC threat.

Which is why either PP is built from the ground up using BGS rules, or players become the offical opposition.

 

[Rubbernuke]

.... and what proportion of players find the reddit community?

In the beginning (before the forums here had PP subs) Reddit was the sole platform for PP players. Every power had one and nearly all players went to them.

Indirect PvP does seem to be characterised as that by some PvP proponents.

The only organized opposition you'll face as you fly will be in Open. In Solo or PG it won't exist, and is the same in Open (i.e. same ineffectual NPCs)

While some players might want surprise and dynamism, not all players play the game for the "rush", nor do all players play the game to engage in PvP.

So in a feature about directly challenging other powers you don't want conflict? Why pledge then?

It holds for the whole game, not just Powerplay.

True. But for PP more so since thats all it has currently.

 

[Hanerib]

Unless PP NPCs can do what players do, then it is cheap. I have never seen an NPC chase me all over, ambush me or push me to my limits.

I was referring to troubles in maintaining a competitive multiplayer environment in this game. It might just be easier and cheaper to focus on personal narratives and single player experiences, with occasional co-op, cockpit cats, nice pictures.

 

[Robert Maynard]

In the beginning (before the forums here had PP subs) Reddit was the sole platform for PP players. Every power had one and nearly all players went to them.

Without numbers of Powerplay participants and numbers of players who found each Power's reddit to compare the contention that "nearly all" players found the reddits would seem to be an assumption.

The only organized opposition you'll face as you fly will be in Open. In Solo or PG it won't exist, and is the same in Open (i.e. same ineffectual NPCs)

That's a consequence of no hostile PvP requirement.

So in a feature about directly challenging other powers you don't want conflict? Why pledge then?

Conflict is not only PvP.

True. But for PP more so since thats all it has currently.

The whole game would seem to revolve around PvE (and/or indirect PvP) - which, given the lack of requirement to engage in hostile PvP, will be characterised as a grind by some of those who prefer hostile PvP.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I was referring to troubles in maintaining a competitive multiplayer environment in this game. It might just be easier and cheaper to focus on personal narratives and single player experiences, with occasional co-op, cockpit cats, nice pictures.

None of which is Powerplay- if that was FDs ultimate aim for ED PP would never fit and should be removed in that case.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Without numbers of Powerplay participants and numbers of players who found each Power's reddit to compare the contention that "nearly all" players found the reddits would seem to be an assumption.

How is it then for a number of years the plans that these reddits (mine included) played out exactly as they were planned, with no shadow group fighting for control? The only outliers are 5C, and even then they are transparent in aims and are not actually having parallel plans for Powers.

Having been one of the leaders of Utopia for a number of years I have never seen any other group of the same size come along and attempt any other plans.

That's a consequence of no hostile PvP requirement.

So you then have two modes with no direct structured opposition at all - the only pan modal opposition that can be done is outgrinding each other, which is like eating cardboard and why PP is seen as it is.

Conflict is not only PvP.

PvP is not only conflict. Its running away, supporting your team, as well as shooting.

The whole game would seem to revolve around PvE (and/or indirect PvP) - which, given the lack of requirement to engage in hostile PvP, will be characterised as a grind by some of those who prefer hostile PvP.

If the whole game revolves around PvE, why have a mode that duplicates what already exists? If everything tastes of vanilla no-one is really going to care. Powerplay is about intelligent opposition, which is stuck in one gear (grind here or grind there). At least with Open PP the chance exists to make that much more dynamic.

 

[Arry]

Every player bought a game that is in continual development, which means features change. Having an entirely opt-in feature where PvP is not entirely optional would be a new string to the bow for a game that caters to a lot of different play-styles and which, afterall involves shooting things much of the time and has 'dangerous' in the title.

For a new feature maybe. For something already established over a number of years, to be remove from 3 out of 3 modes, is not on.

 

[Arry]

So I get the impression that a some people here don't agree with the evaluation that Powerplay was supposed to be 'Endgame Content' where consensual PvP and Power vs Power conflict is supposed to happen. The question I have to ask is what do you think Powerplay is supposed to be?

And to the people who play powerplay, why do you play?
What is it that makes you come back to it?
Is it the Power's Player community?
The Rewards?
The fact you like Dyed Blue Hair?

For me it was the last; when it was first added to the game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

How is it then for a number of years the plans that these reddits (mine included) played out exactly as they were planned, with no shadow group fighting for control? The only outliers are 5C, and even then they are transparent in aims and are not actually having parallel plans for Powers.

Having been one of the leaders of Utopia for a number of years I have never seen any other group of the same size come along and attempt any other plans.

Fair enough - good to know.

So you then have two modes with no direct structured opposition at all - the only pan modal opposition that can be done is outgrinding each other, which is like eating cardboard and why PP is seen as it is.

Which is the case for all game features that can be construed as having any potential for indirect PvP.

PvP is not only conflict. Its running away, supporting your team, as well as shooting.

True, however conflict in this game need not be direct.

If the whole game revolves around PvE, why have a mode that duplicates what already exists? If everything tastes of vanilla no-one is really going to care. Powerplay is about intelligent opposition, which is stuck in one gear (grind here or grind there). At least with Open PP the chance exists to make that much more dynamic.

Powerplay as a feature is not a simple duplication - it works on a much reduced list of protagonists, i.e. eleven rather than tens of thousands.

While with Open Powerplay the chance exists to make it more dynamic (i.e. require hostile PvP, in the context of the discussion), the chance also exists that the hostile PvP requirement will drive off current participants who don't enjoy PvP (and the fact that some players, who can't play in multi-player will definitely lose access to it). It would be a step into the unknown - where the full extent of the consequences are similarly unknown.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Why this thread keeps opening on page 1, I'll never know... Lol

Anyhoo, PowerPlay Open only would be cool, IF PowerPlay weapons/modules were removed (and placed behind tech brokers, to remove CMDRs just module hunting from PowerPlay), and replaced with more generic rewards, like materials, money, even ships and modules (nothing new, just free or heavily discounted ships or modules).
A heavily discounted or free ship/module would significantly lower your rebuy, making a death significantly cheaper, making PvP sting less when dying.

Then the PvP community can have something more structured to get behind other than ganking/enforcing(which barely works due to dodgy C&P), or "gentlemens agreement" PvP in Shinrarta Dezhra.

Of course, PowerPlay also needs a complete overhaul to remove the 2 ultra repetitive gameplay loops, and replace them with varied missions, conflicts, and long term objectives, basically the BGS, but just for the PowerPlay factions. Lol

It's very easy to make it open only. Simply prevent pledging in solo/PG, and prevent logging in to solo/PG when pledged.

This also sort of solves the Botting problem, in two ways.
First, it's Open only, so we can all thoroughly enjoy shooting bots.
Second, swapping the god awful pamphlet grind, with more varied and fun gameplay will making Botting more difficult to do.
The only remaining issue is traffic shaping, but if FD can detect it, it can be a bannable offence similar to cheating.

Of course, I can understand people not wanting this. But I'd consider joining for more than just modules if it gave PvP something to fight for.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Which is the case for all game features that can be construed as having any potential for indirect PvP.

But in a feature about opposing directly or indirectly thats crazy. There is no consistent opposition to stop you in solo other than time.

True, however conflict in this game need not be direct.

And PP generally suffers for it.

Powerplay as a feature is not a simple duplication - it works on a much reduced list of protagonists, i.e. eleven rather than tens of thousands.

Much reduced, but at the same time the BGS has much more to actually do. PPs simplicity makes it far better suited to direct opposition than any other part.

While with Open Powerplay the chance exists to make it more dynamic (i.e. require hostile PvP, in the context of the discussion), the chance also exists that the hostile PvP requirement will drive off current participants who don't enjoy PvP (and the fact that some players, who can't play in multi-player will definitely lose access to it). It would be a step into the unknown - where the full extent of the consequences are similarly unknown.

It is a step into the unknown, its why I'm trying to highlight that by making content like the BGS and missions available for solo PP you then leave the open parts discussed at length to open players- both are catered for with better fitting features for minimal FD expense.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But in a feature about opposing directly or indirectly thats crazy. There is no consistent opposition to stop you in solo other than time.

Complaints were made when player supported Factions were introduced that they could be affect by players who couldn't be shot at - Frontier don't seem to see the need for mandatory direct opposition in their game, in any feature.

And PP generally suffers for it.

It's a consequence of every player being sold a game where hostile PvP is an option when engaging in any game feature.

It is a step into the unknown, its why I'm trying to highlight that by making content like the BGS and missions available for solo PP you then leave the open parts discussed at length to open players- both are catered for with better fitting features for minimal FD expense.

Players who want Open only features have been discussing the possibilities for over six-and-a-half years - Frontier have not yet chosen to acquiesce to their demands.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Complaints were made when player supported Factions were introduced that they could be affect by players who couldn't be shot at - Frontier don't seem to see the need for mandatory direct opposition in their game, in any feature.

Which is different here- mainly as Powerplay is vestigial duplication of an outdated feature, and outshone by the BGS.

It's a consequence of every player being sold a game where hostile PvP is an option when engaging in any game feature.

And is why this part needs an overhaul, or Open mode made essential for at least part of it.

Players who want Open only features have been discussing the possibilities for over six-and-a-half years - Frontier have not yet chosen to acquiesce to their demands.

True, but each time FD have come back to us they say roughly the same things- its reflected in Sandros topic. More and more intelligent divisions of features within Powerplay give it new life, as well as not excluding anyone. Solo guys get new stuff, and so do Open players, all under the same roof.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is different here- mainly as Powerplay is vestigial duplication of an outdated feature, and outshone by the BGS.

Different in detail, not in philosophy.

And is why this part needs an overhaul, or Open mode made essential for at least part of it.

Whether the game "needs" hostile PvP to be a requirement of participation in any feature is an opinion not shared by all.

True, but each time FD have come back to us they say roughly the same things- its reflected in Sandros topic. More and more intelligent divisions of features within Powerplay give it new life, as well as not excluding anyone. Solo guys get new stuff, and so do Open players, all under the same roof.

Roughly the same things included "no ETA, no guarantees" - in the latest incarnation pains were taken to reassure those opposed to the proposals, included in what was pitched as "an investigation", that it was by no means a fait accompli and that no decisions had already been made. We'll see, in time, which of the proposals Frontier are prepared to implement within the resource allocation available.

Something for everyone would be the ideal, rather than gating existing base game content to Open (and therefore introducing a requirement for hostile PvP).

 

[Hanerib]

None of which is Powerplay- if that was FDs ultimate aim for ED PP would never fit and should be removed in that case.

I don't know if it was. Considering competitive gameplay, it doesn't make sense. What's the point if anyone could as well do it in solo. It could be Frontier thought there would be enough players choosing to play in open, and participating in powerplay in this way anyway, so it would look good enough, at least superficially. Pledging to a power in this way is more like roleplaying, with optional pvp elements, like a personal narrative.

However, I would believe the current situation was not their ultimate aim for powerplay. I think they had wished for a more engaging, and more serious-minded aspect for this game, but at some point something went wrong, they got scared of open, they realized they couldn't handle what would come with it, and managing a competitive multiplayer environment.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Different in detail, not in philosophy.

But people play for that detail, and not philosophy though.

Whether the game "needs" hostile PvP to be a requirement of participation in any feature is an opinion not shared by all.

Thats why not all of it is about that.

Roughly the same things included "no ETA, no guarantees" - in the latest incarnation pains were taken to reassure those opposed to the proposals, included in what was pitched as "an investigation", that it was by no means a fait accompli and that no decisions had already been made. We'll see, in time, which of the proposals Frontier are prepared to implement within the resource allocation available.

Something for everyone would be the ideal, rather than gating existing base game content to Open (and therefore introducing a requirement for hostile PvP).

In the end its not about gating, its about providing something that suits what we have if FD won't put in the time needed. BGS and missions suit all modes, leaving the haul and shoot part Open, which is great because that part is mechanically simple letting players fill in the blanks.

But looking at all of what Sandro posted re PP, none of it was a total rewrite, and none of it was at the level of engineers, exploration or mining in FD dev time.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't know if it was. Considering competitive gameplay, it doesn't make sense. What's the point if anyone could as well do it in solo. It could be Frontier thought there would be enough players choosing to play in open, and participating in powerplay in this way anyway, so it would look good enough, at least superficially. Pledging to a power in this way is more like roleplaying, with optional pvp elements, like a personal narrative.

However, I would believe the current situation was not their ultimate aim for powerplay. I think they had wished for a more engaging, and more serious-minded aspect for this game, but at some point something went wrong, they got scared of open, they realized they couldn't handle what would come with it, and managing a competitive multiplayer environment.

Very much so. You can see the wreckage all over; half finished Powers in game files, unreleased bobbleheads, half finished manuals, unfixed bugs, vestigial menu items...not to mention FD simply being incapable of even talking about it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But people play for that detail, and not philosophy though.

I'd suggest that those that participate in Powerplay but don't enjoy PvP are currently playing it for both.

Thats why not all of it is about that.

One proposal would gate content behind a hostile PvP barrier. Not every player agrees that that is a desirable outcome.

In the end its not about gating, its about providing something that suits what we have if FD won't put in the time needed. BGS and missions suit all modes, leaving the haul and shoot part Open, which is great because that part is mechanically simple letting players fill in the blanks.

It's entirely about gating - that is the whole point of making any game feature Open only. It's about making all participants play in a manner that only some choose at the moment.

But looking at all of what Sandro posted re PP, none of it was a total rewrite, and none of it was at the level of engineers, exploration or mining in FD dev time.

Probably because the lack of participation in the feature made it difficult to prioritise in terms of features competing for resource allocation. Engineers, exploration and mining are available to all players (who own Horizons, in the case of Engineering), in any mode. Open only Powerplay would not be available in all game modes and would therefore cut its likely playerbase before any development began.