Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[IndigoWyrd]

"but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone." So why do it then?

Why deport illegal aliens? Why swab the area where you’re administering a lethal injection?

Because it needs done. Frontier was not happy with the original system, and it is their system first.

"Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now."

Q.E.D.

But you're perfectly happy for some of us to have a detrimental experience even though you knew it?

To borrow from Lincoln: "You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not please all of the people all of the time."

Here’s a real life lesson: In the really real world, the least common denominator really isn’t as important as it thinks it should be, and the majority wins out in the end.

I know, it’s the opposite of what your college professors want, and not how things appear through Disney-colored liberal-lenses. But it is what is.

What a complete load of mealy mouthed bunk!

And yet, here we are.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Hello Commanders,

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.

Thank you for clarifying this.

I had anticipated this long ago, and adjusted my playstyle accordingly.

Note: when issuing a statement like this, in the US military it is customary for you to say "End of discussion", and have the person making the query thrown face down in the mud for daring to ask. It reduces speculation no end.

 

[Riverside]

Thank you for clarifying this.

I had anticipated this long ago, and adjusted my playstyle accordingly.

Note: when issuing a statement like this, in the US military it is customary for you to say "End of discussion", and have the person making the query thrown face down in the mud for daring to ask. It reduces speculation no end.

We are not in the military, and the discussion has not ended. But a French Exit (English Exit if you are French) is always an option

 

[Ralph Vargr]

We are not in the military, and the discussion has not ended. But a French Exit (English Exit if you are French) is always an option

Frontier is treating us like boot recruits.
This field-grade officer does not appreciate it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

We are not in the military, and the discussion has not ended. But a French Exit (English Exit if you are French) is always an option

Much as I dislike it, I believe the discussion HAS ended. FDev aren't going to explain their reasoning behind this decision, and unless they happen to employ me as Lead Designer I see no reason to think they'll change it. After 6 months of feedback and a range of suggested alternatives they've given a categorical 'no' and we're stuck with it.

 

[CMDR Disco Cat]

People against the new system fail to realize that many people were just bored and annoyed by the old one, and I think that globally, way more people enjoy the FSS than people were enjoying the "go near each body and wait".

Most bugs are solved for months except the already-mapped-looking bodies that you actually haven't mapped yet... but with practice, you know exactly where to fire those probes to map a body completely anyway so that's not that annoying.

I personally very much like the FSS, just got back from more than 5 months exploring with it as a part of the Distant Worlds 2 expedition, and it just works wonders.

 

[Riverside]

Frontier is treating us like boot recruits.
This field-grade officer does not appreciate it.

I appreciate the analogy but I know more about farming/garden management and childcare. My father was in the RAF.

If you leave a thing fallow for a long time it's going to take an awful lot more work to make it right than it would have if you'd kept on top of the workload. This has become a much bigger issue than it ever needed to be.

I appreciate this post from Adam today & Will's post yesterday on the Icarus Cup, it is better than nothing

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I appreciate this post from Adam today & Will's post yesterday on the Icarus Cup, it is better than nothing

Indeed. FDev need to be giving more definitive statements on contentious issues, rather than just (apparently) ignoring them. Hopefully this trend will continue.

 

[Riverside]

People against the new system fail to realize that many people were just bored and annoyed by the old one, and I think that globally, way more people enjoy the FSS than people were enjoying the "go near each body and wait".

Most bugs are solved for months except the already-mapped-looking bodies that you actually haven't mapped yet... but with practice, you know exactly where to fire those probes to map a body completely anyway so that's not that annoying.

I personally very much like the FSS, just got back from more than 5 months exploring with it as a part of the Distant Worlds 2 expedition, and it just works wonders.

The FSS has introduced plenty of players to the idea of getting out there for a bit of a look/see, but it didn't need to be at the expense of existing players.

We can have both

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

We can have both

Apparently not.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Hello Commanders,

I wanted to drop in and let you that we have been reading your comments and are aware how some of you feel about the FSS.

When first designing the FSS, we wanted to ensure that it was engaging for as many different player types as possible, but also understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone. Before the FSS was implemented, we also collected feedback from discussions on the forum and the beta.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

At the current time, we won’t be making changes to the core of the FSS. While we understand that this may be disappointing for some of you, we would like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feedback with us.

Disappointing to say the least.
I do have issues with your statement:

understood that it would not be possible to design a system that would work for everyone

This just seems like a lack of imagination - while it may not be possible to design a 'single' system that works for everyone, as has been explained many times by multiple posters, the ADS and FSS serve different needs for different explorers and could coexist as complimentary systems.
The fundamental issue is that you felt that you needed a single module - system scanning and body scanning are different functions served by different modules in the pre-3.3 implementation. It's trying to combine them that has created this problem in the first place.

Today, in its current iteration, we’re happy with how the FSS operates and feel that reinstating the ADS would be detrimental to the experience of exploration as it is now.

In itself, the FSS is kind of ok - it is a definite improvement on the old DSS as a body scanner, so I can see why you might be happy with it.
But by itself, it is absolutely not a suitable replacement for the ADS as a system scanner, and that is where the problems arise.

Just saying that its restoration is detrimental isn't going to cut it - please explain why.
I'm pretty sure that any answer has already been covered in these threads.

I haven't logged in since the FSS dropped (yes, I did use it in Beta), and have absolutely no urge to while it acts as an obligatory gameplay hoop to jump through for exploration.
I don't need any fundamental changes to the FSS to change that decision.
But I do need a suitable replacement for the ADS, with the easiest option being the restoration of the ADS itself.
As a module it is, by definition, optional and therefore of no detriment to anyone who doesn't like it.
Functionally, all that it would actually do is extend the current behaviour of the honk in explored space into unexplored space.

I'll be honest, the statement does just read as wanting to shut the discussion down.
It does nothing to address the core issue because you haven't explained anything at all.

While the image may seem overly dramatic, this is how it is for me.

As someone who has invested significant time and money into the game, I have to say I feel let down by Frontier.

 

[Riverside]

Apparently not.

There is no reason AFAIK why we cannot have both. I very much look forward to FDev enlightening us with their compelling justification why the two cannot co-exist outside the bubble as they do within it.

 

[EUS]

At least I now know that the one activity I enjoyed but now dislike to my core is permanently entrenched into the game.
Emotional detachment to this game complete.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

There is no reason AFAIK why we cannot have both. I very much look forward to FDev enlightening us with their compelling justification why the two cannot co-exist outside the bubble as they do within it.

I wouldn't hold your breath for that one. I don't recall them explaining their thought processes behind any other decisions. Plus, even if we know why, it isn't going to change the decision.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

They have excluded a player group and they just dont care.

I will always associate the name frontier with the cheated disapointment i feel about this whole thing.

You may feel that way, if you like.

I think it's good that they gave the system time to 'bed in' before they gave a definitive opinion on whether they should bring back the ADS. However, a statement could have been made 6 months ago to indicate that they were reviewing the feedback, which would have been helpful, I beieve.

Helpful in what way? Inspiring false hopes?

Frontier has long made it clear that they DO listen to us. They may or may not act on what they hear, but we are heard. They may or may not respond, but we are still heard.

Of course, it is always greatly appreciated when someone does take the time from assuredly busy schedules to respond directly, and I’m sure no one here would disagree with that, even when that response is not what they want to hear.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Much as I dislike it, I believe the discussion HAS ended. FDev aren't going to explain their reasoning behind this decision, and unless they happen to employ me as Lead Designer I see no reason to think they'll change it. After 6 months of feedback and a range of suggested alternatives they've given a categorical 'no' and we're stuck with it.

Yes, from my perspective it has. That was a pretty firm 'shut up' And its not logical to put your heart into an effort that's now known to be impossible. Maybe they're having enough trouble with all the other issues getting hotter and hotter elsewhere, and we are by far the most civilized bunch Im actually fine now we have an answer, really my only gripe is it would have been nice to have the issue closed sooner.

Since we're at the end.. i probably should admit, about a day after writing this post, was genuinely shocked to see someone actually use the fss at frontier, i kinda worked it out for myself. The trick is to basically ignore the fss in prediscovered systems. Doing the check on the nav panel to see if the count of the list matches the bodies from the honk, if discovered business as usual system map, only gets the fss when you're tagging first discovered. This is enough value to put up with it. So only use the fss for its peak god mode abilities, zero contact otherwise. First mapped is completely ignored as rubbish, its kinda an "i was here" if you land somewhere for the night.

I'll admit to fault. I made the mistake of taking frontier at face value, being hyped up and excited for the exploration changes, i took frontier seriously when they came on stream and did a bunch of horrific things: showed the fss as the main thing in the new exploration, boasted about not needing to fly as the awesome thing, and how quick it was. This really knocked me flat as how dumb that was. I guess the mechanics of the fss don't help...

For using the fss, i found the tricks to be: pan around the orbital plane first. While there are those annoying outliers completely unknown, you can get the bulk of them first on the plane and that makes you feel better. I also use a hotas dial for tuning so it isn't a problem. The panning is crap and there's no alternative to this. Well actually there's heaps, you could show the arrows earlier or some of the millions of other suggestions but yeah.

Well, im glad to have made it out, and i think we can all still keep the fact that Adam didn't tell us how amazing it was, just to stop talking about it, so everything is still whole. Onwards!

EDIT: I've been stripmining on and off since the op. What can i say, im still doing it

EDIT AGAIN: Also the amount of effort i went though to make it work matches wanting to save 2k hours and 3 digits in cosmetics over a number of accounts. For less invested people, who simply do what they've been shown, it has to creator. That experience is not good.

Last edit: While the white knights like to make out that its only 3 of us that are complaining, given the amount of approval from randoms that these threads and posts are getting, its starting to sink in

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Helpful in what way? Inspiring false hopes?

No, it simply makes people feel they're being listened to.

Of course, it is always greatly appreciated when someone does take the time from assuredly busy schedules to respond directly, and I’m sure no one here would disagree with that, even when that response is not what they want to hear.

And you answered your own question.

Not sure what point you were trying to make.

 

[Sylow]

There is no reason AFAIK why we cannot have both.

There are plenty. You just always dismissed them. The most simply one: code incompatibilities. Imagine that some part of the old ADS code was again used in the new FSS, but works differently now on some aspects.

In such a scenario re-introducing and supporting the old feature would result in a lot of duplicated code and bloat. That's not desirable. (Even before noting: if they do this once, people will demand the same for each and any future change. And in no time, we can't have any new things to the game, as all developer time goes into maintenance. )

 

[Riverside]

There are plenty. You just always dismissed them. The most simply one: code incompatibilities. Imagine that some part of the old ADS code was again used in the new FSS, but works differently now on some aspects.

In such a scenario re-introducing and supporting the old feature would result in a lot of duplicated code and bloat. That's not desirable. (Even before noting: if they do this once, people will demand the same for each and any future change. And in no time, we can't have any new things to the game, as all developer time goes into maintenance. )

I dismiss them because they are not valid justification. The code was already there and still is there.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I dismiss them because they are not valid justification. The code was already there and still is there.

The code is irrelevant if they don't want to do it.