Lifetime pass and general update questions

[Riverside]

The problem is just that a few people didn't know what they bought.
There were some clever folks who asked some questions on the forums when the 2015 LEP was available.
'What if I don't like every expansion?'
'What if they don't release as many expansion as I expect?'
And the answer to that has always been:
'Don't buy it.'

Ah, so we were stupid to pre-pay. Do you think FDev share that view?

I think the plan changed is all, and it has been communicated extremely poorly. And after this long with neither anything to show for it nor any useful information on what's coming (or willingness to provide any) offers of refunds to those no longer happy to wait would be a good way to settle this.

 

[znôrt]

At this point im almost tempted to give you the 130 quid myself.

dude, stop "misrepresenting" (pun intended!), he just wants to know. he said it in bold!

but by all projections he'll have to wait, after nearly 4 years, yet for another year. i can't see how it is so difficult to understand he's miffed.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

what you're saying is that he just has to wait, which is true. the issue is that he's tired of waiting and is starting to harbor doubts and while that's totally subjective, it's also totally understandable. some people just doesn't seem to want to hear about it and can't abstain from shooting that down. i don't think it's working, but yeah, doesn't matter anyway.

Unfortunately Frontier have reverted to their pre-Kickstarter days where they shared next to no information. There was some concept art back in 2001* or so that was posted on alt.fan.elite and then radio silence on alt.fan.elite until they set up these forums and kicked off (then promptly ignored) the Elite club. It was only for the Kickstarter did they pay attention to the forums and as soon as they got bored with that, again back into radio silence.

I don't expect to hear anything about the 2020/2021 update until August 2020 at the earliest. And I certainly don't expect any clarity about the future of the LEP (i.e. any more after the 2021 update) ever. Some people are happy with that, others not so. Personally, I can no longer be bothered to invest my time in a company that has such little regard for its customers.

* Amusingly, the concept art was slated because it showed concepts for Elite Feet (Tomb Raider in space was one of the oft repeated criticisms)

 

[WR3ND]

I have, but you are either confused or doubling down on your misrepresentation. Which one is it?

Neither. He meant what he got extra by buying the LEP beyond what just having bought Horizons with beta access and the discount for already owning Elite: Dangerous would have provided.

...

Oh course us LEP owners will also get the 2020 update expansion, and hopefully a couple more beyond that, considering the significantly higher price of the Horizons announcement LEP offer with having previously purchased Elite: Dangerous at full price as well. It has been some longer than expected time waiting though.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Ah, so we were stupid to pre-pay. Do you think FDev share that view?

....

Actually, in a round-about way they have mentioned they were sorry/it was a stupid idea. One of their financial reports mentioned that they still hold money in reserve from LEP purchases that they can't do anything with, because they can't recognize the revenue, since there isn't a clear point where this is fulfilled. So, in that report they actually state that they intend to declare the promise fulfilled in 2021 - which itself led some CMDRs to call that "the end of support" for ED, when it really is just the date when finally FD can recognize all the revenue from the LEP passes.

The change in DLC schedule/approach hurt them more than it hit the buyers of the LEPs.

 

[sewerratuk]

Actually, in a round-about way they have mentioned they were sorry/it was a stupid idea. One of their financial reports mentioned that they still hold money in reserve from LEP purchases that they can't do anything with, because they can't recognize the revenue, since there isn't a clear point where this is fulfilled. So, in that report they actually state that they intend to declare the promise fulfilled in 2021 - which itself led some CMDRs to call that "the end of support" for ED, when it really is just the date when finally FD can recognize all the revenue from the LEP passes.

The change in DLC schedule/approach hurt them more than it hit the buyers of the LEPs.

So the 2020/21 update will be 80 quid. Let’s hope it’s more than double the content of Horizons and not a load more half hearted features and placeholders

 

[WR3ND]

So the 2020/21 update will be 80 quid. Let’s hope it’s more than double the content of Horizons and not a load more half hearted features and placeholders

So, confirmed no more expansions after 2020 update then?

Now this is something that could use some clarification by Frontier. I'd be hoping for a couple further expansions yet, considering the price I paid for the LEP at the time of the Horizons announcement.

Care to take another road trip, Riverside? 'Fraid my car wouldn't fair too well across the ocean.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

I hoped that with the little aside in my post this would not happen, but to repeat....

The 2021 date is related to them being able to recognize the revenue of LEP passes. It has nothing to do with whether or not there will be future updates to the game or not.

It's an accounting thing. Not a game development thing.

I don't know where people are pulling the "80 quid" from.

 

[Viajero]

Neither. He meant what he got extra by buying the LEP beyond what just having bought Horizons with beta access and the discount for already owning Elite: Dangerous would have provided.

Actually no, he didnt. Here the relevant part:

Deducting anything I gained as an LEPer? That would be the cosmetics we got in December (snowflake & a few other bits) which were gifted as an apology for the protracted delay. The apology was worth something to me, the cosmetics themselves aren't.

It was very deliberate in leaving out all the actual main elements of the 2015 LEP that could be "deducted" until I pointed it out.

 

[WR3ND]

Actually no, he didnt. Here the relevant part:



It was very deliberate in leaving out all the actual main elements of the 2015 LEP that could be "deducted" until I pointed it out.

I disagree. I wasn't confused by what he meant by "gained" in that context. Admittedly though, that may be down to me being in the same circumstance, so to me it seemed implicit.

 

[znôrt]

There was some concept art back in 2001* or so that was posted on alt.fan.elite

didn't know about that! gonna bookmark this for when i feel like digging a bit in nostalgia
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.fan.elite/before$3A2002$2F12$2F31|sort:date

 

[Viajero]

I disagree. I wasn't confused by what he meant by "gained" in that context. Admittedly though, that may be down to me being in the same circumstance, so to me it seemed implicit.

I wasn´t confused either. The post that prompted the response I quote was very specific about the refunds discussion though, and it enquires directly about any elements that could be discounted, not just the extra "perks". The fact the answer fully ignored the key elements that can be discounted and focused only on the cosmetic perks is therefore a sign of confusion (be it the context or the LEP itself) or misrepresentation.

 

[WR3ND]

I wasn´t confused either. The post that prompted the response I quote was very specific about the refunds discussion though, and it enquires directly about any elements that could be discounted, not just the extra "perks". The fact the answer fully ignored the key elements that can be discounted and focused only on the cosmetic perks is therefore a sign of confusion (be it the context or the LEP itself) or misrepresentation.

Don't you think it's obvious that the 2015 LEP would include Horizons and Elite: Dangerous, or have the reduced price for already owning Elite: Dangerous?

I don't think he was trying to misrepresent anything, leastwise not intentionally. As I said above...

"He meant what he got extra by buying the LEP beyond what just having bought Horizons with beta access and the discount for already owning Elite: Dangerous would have provided."

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I wasn´t confused either. The post that prompted the response I quote was very specific about the refunds discussion though, and it enquires directly about any elements that could be discounted, not just the extra "perks". The fact the answer fully ignored the key elements that can be discounted and focused only on the cosmetic perks is therefore a sign of confusion (be it the context or the LEP itself) or misrepresentation.

In general, if a customer buys a product that they subsequently feel was mis-sold, there are very few reputable companies that would try to claw back whatever they can from any refund. It's not an argument about technicality, it's about proper conduct as a business. That kind of behaviour and treatment of customers is likely to decimate the reputation of any business.

 

[Viajero]

Don't you think it's obvious that the 2015 LEP would include Horizons and Elite: Dangerous, or have the reduced price for already owning Elite: Dangerous?

Of course it is (also the Beta access btw), which makes it the more puzzling to see a response to a question about the deductible elements that openly ignores precisely the most significant deductible elements and focuses only on the most irrelevant ones all the while dismissing the whole issue.

 

[Viajero]

In general, if a customer buys a product that they subsequently feel was mis-sold, there are very few reputable companies that would try to claw back whatever they can from any refund. It's not an argument about technicality, it's about proper conduct as a business. That kind of behaviour and treatment of customers is likely to decimate the reputation of any business.

That is indeed a different (and totally valid) discussion that I have not attempted to enter into at all.

And that was not at all what was argued originally in response to the deductible question by another patron. I have limited my intervention simply to clarify the puzzling oversight in the response as it completely ignored the key elements.

 

[WR3ND]

Of course it is (also the Beta access bts), which makes it the more puzzling to see a response to a question about the deductible elements that openly ignores precisely the most significant deductible elements and focuses only on the most irrelevant ones all the while dismissing the whole issue.

It didn't ignore it, it was already assumed. He was contrasting the difference of what he gained beyond the obvious.

 

[Viajero]

It didn't ignore it, it was already assumed. He was contrasting the difference of what he gained beyond the obvious.

That was not what was asked though ("anything gained as a LEPer"). And the response sidesteps it completely in order to minimize the issue.

 

[WR3ND]

That was not what was asked though ("anything gained as a LEPer"). And the response sidesteps it completely in order to minimize the issue.

As I've said, it seemed implicit to me that Riverside's response was stating what was gained (so far) by the 2015 LEP (with the discount for already owning Elite: Dangerous) over having bought the pre-order of Horizons with beta access (with the discount for already owning Elite: Dangerous) instead.

Oh well. Carry on. o7

 

[Riverside]

That was not what was asked though ("anything gained as a LEPer"). And the response sidesteps it completely in order to minimize the issue.

Viajero, I appreciate that English is not your first language and that it is a more complex one than most but you are simply mistaken. While your general note that for some the total cost of the LEP may have included the base game as well as horizons beta is fair enough, it is irrelevant. The part of the cost of the LEP that is relevant is the unredeemed value - the bit not consumed by the base game, horizons or the beta access.