Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

[IndigoWyrd]

There does seem to be a lot of tortured logic around!

It's overpowered to give Lone Wolf players access to mobile base facilities of the sort found at stations. But not OP for them to use a station to get exactly the same services. The Carrier just lets them use a "station" where there wasn't one. Indeed, some are arguing that the existence of stations makes Carriers redundant anyhow! So they're both overpowered and useless. Hmmm.

But only for Lone Wolf players. It's fine for large groups to use these overpowered and useless toys, which suddenly become both balanced and useful when a squadron size exceeds a magic number.

And they should involve so much grind that no sane Lone Wolf player will ever use one. Yet so convenient that a group will still prefer using one to just jumping independently to the destination, exactly as they do now. So how much grind is that then?

And groups deserve something to spend their cash on. Whereas Lone Wolves... don't?

And there should be a limit of one ship per CMDR on each carrier, so all those pewpew fans will easily be able to ship in or scoop up whatever resources the Carrier needs using their combat-fit Vultures, FDL's and Mambas. Whereas the guy using alts will be forced to use a T9 for haulage instead. Errr...

This is assuming that Carriers are anything like stations at all.
I don't except Missions from them, except perhaps "Refuel Carrier - Donate 1,000,000 tons of Hydrogen Fuel".
I don't expect Commodities to be bought or sold.
I don't expect Black Markets.
I don't expect ships for sale.
I'd be surprised if they offered Repair services.
I'd be a bit less surprised if they offered refueling or rearming.
I'd only be a little surprised if they DIDN'T allow ship or module transfer, even if this was offered to the Carrier owner only.
I don't expect Carriers to be damageable, or to have any weapons, save MAYBE those like Megaships/Stations to shoot idiots off your large pads when they try to block them.
I don't expect Power Contacts.
I don't expect Legal Contacts.
I don't expect much, really, except an avalanche of Forum Salt when people find out they can't use these as giant Mobile Death Machines.
I also reserve the right to point and laugh in the tear-stained faces of anyone expecting more from Carriers.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

This is assuming that Carriers are anything like stations at all.
I don't except Missions from them, except perhaps "Refuel Carrier - Donate 1,000,000 tons of Hydrogen Fuel".
I don't expect Commodities to be bought or sold.
I don't expect Black Markets.
I don't expect ships for sale.
I'd be surprised if they offered Repair services.
I'd be a bit less surprised if they offered refueling or rearming.
I'd only be a little surprised if they DIDN'T allow ship or module transfer, even if this was offered to the Carrier owner only.
I don't expect Carriers to be damageable, or to have any weapons, save MAYBE those like Megaships/Stations to shoot idiots off your large pads when they try to block them.
I don't expect Power Contacts.
I don't expect Legal Contacts.
I don't expect much, really, except an avalanche of Forum Salt when people find out they can't use these as giant Mobile Death Machines.
I also reserve the right to point and laugh in the tear-stained faces of anyone expecting more from Carriers.

So what does it do?

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

There are a crap ton of 1 person squadrons already.
Not everyone wants to contribute to a community.
If you are already contributing to a community as part of a squadron what's the distinction really, between what individuals do for a group or what an individual does for themselves? Or let me put it this way gathering fuel for a carrier for a community owned ship or for one you own. You are doing the exact same activity anyway. Then consider that people love their ships, they engineer them, they buy paint and ship kits for them, a fleet carrier is just an extension of that. How many would feel they are getting their games worth in a squadron, when within a squadron you have certain smaller groups that know each other, give each other "authority" and leaving out the rest of the people within that group from that. Would those left out really feel that their time in maintaining the carrier a worthy use of their time and resources? Would everyone be happy not being able to decide where to go next, or on a vote by a committee, or a majority rules (which maybe that core group)?

Is this why we have arx earn able in game? So that people wont be as upset about having a community pooling of funds compared to actual cash (which arx actually are at the end of the day if you think about it), but most wont see it that way (as real cash).

What if a squadron dies (people stop playing or go to other squadrons), who will upkeep the carrier then if it is just for squadrons only, particularly if its the squadron leaders that stop playing. Have a look at how many dead Player Groups are out there.

There is no real difference between a solo player and "team" player from a game mechanic point. Since there is a solo mode and everything in the game so far can be done by a solo player ( or PG player playing alone), then Fleet Carriers should be available to individuals. It doesn't make sense to lock away a certain (especially new) gameplay to groups only. Which in effect (as their is leadership positions with privileges) is only available to those people with said privileges.

Some games scale depending on the numbers of groups to help with balance. Will there be scaling between large groups and small or solo groups? Will people just flock to large groups only, creating clusters instead of a more even distribution for things like material gathering (assuming there will be any at all)?

Just my thoughts and ramblings. There is a lot to consider and many many questions that sorely need answering. I hope Frontier consider such things before release.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This is assuming that Carriers are anything like stations at all.
I don't except Missions from them, except perhaps "Refuel Carrier - Donate 1,000,000 tons of Hydrogen Fuel".
I don't expect Commodities to be bought or sold.
I don't expect Black Markets.
I don't expect ships for sale.
I'd be surprised if they offered Repair services.
I'd be a bit less surprised if they offered refueling or rearming.
I'd only be a little surprised if they DIDN'T allow ship or module transfer, even if this was offered to the Carrier owner only.
I don't expect Carriers to be damageable, or to have any weapons, save MAYBE those like Megaships/Stations to shoot idiots off your large pads when they try to block them.
I don't expect Power Contacts.
I don't expect Legal Contacts.
I don't expect much, really, except an avalanche of Forum Salt when people find out they can't use these as giant Mobile Death Machines.
I also reserve the right to point and laugh in the tear-stained faces of anyone expecting more from Carriers.

We're still 6 months off, so i think now is a good time to provide feedback that a credit sink and a roleplay status symbol is likely going to receive a sub optimal user score.

They should be the fullest equipped stations given the threats of prohibitive cost. If they don't do anything apart from show or some arcane powerplay multiplier buff, the whole discussion is as pointless as the carriers would be.

As others have said, if its pointless to a solo player, it will be pointless to a squadron too.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

So what does it do?

It moves a number of ships a greater distance than any of them can jump at a time. It's a fleet CARRIER, it Carries a Fleet.

Pretty obvious, really, it's right there in the name "Fleet Carrier". Not "Fleet Warship", not "Fleet Mobile Station", but "Fleet Carrier".

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

It moves a number of ships a greater distance than any of them can jump at a time. It's a fleet CARRIER, it Carries a Fleet.

Max factor keeps pointing out that its likely going to take longer to fuel the ship than it is to jump there yourself. Without station utility these will be questionable.

The person who spoke to Adam designer hinted that was a challenge they were thinking through though.

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

It moves a number of ships a greater distance than any of them can jump at a time. It's a fleet CARRIER, it Carries a Fleet.

Pretty obvious, really, it's right there in the name "Fleet Carrier". Not "Fleet Warship", not "Fleet Mobile Station", but "Fleet Carrier".

Using that as a basis, I am a solo player with a fleet of over 60 ships. I need a carrier to move my fleet. A carrier that I alone own. It will definitely be a fleet carrier, even for a solo player.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

It moves a number of ships a greater distance than any of them can jump at a time. It's a fleet CARRIER, it Carries a Fleet.

Pretty obvious, really, it's right there in the name "Fleet Carrier". Not "Fleet Warship", not "Fleet Mobile Station", but "Fleet Carrier".

Well an aircraft CARRIER can rearm, refuel, store planes, store cargo, and defend itself, all while managing to float.

I think you’re going too narrow in scope. I think rearm, refuel and repair will be the absolute minimum

 

[dxm55]

Unfortunately, these don’t reach the private market very often, but you might be surprised to know they’re not nearly as expensive as you might think: https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/this-aircraft-carrier-is-for-sale-5709281/amp

This 1970’s model light carrier did sell, for not quite 2.7 million, to a Turkish scrap firm: https://news.usni.org/2016/08/23/u-k-carrier-hms-illustrious-sold-scrap

But you're talking about an obsolete and defunct light carrier, and not a current model Nimitz class supercarrier?
The fleet carriers in this game are gonna be current model, fully functional vessels. Not some derelict from 2500 that you park in orbit as a museum.

 

[dxm55]

I know they won't be, but it would rejuvenate my interest in the game if carriers were destructible, not insurable.

I'd like that too. But make it such that damage to carriers can only be done in Open.
It would create real squadron wars, with real stakes.

You will prob also see squadrons on the same superpower, power, or even in alliances of their own accord, come together to form coalitions to work against their enemies.

Would make for dynamic gameplay and at the same time prevent undermining and sabotage in Solo/Group. So if a lone wolf thinks he wants to play games, he can try it in Open, where the carrier's defenders will be more than willing to welcome him.

And once players and squadrons can start building bases, this game can progress to the next level.


And that is to become something like EVE online, simulator mode. Squadrons effectively become small corporations.
All in all, not a bad thing.

 

[dxm55]

This is assuming that Carriers are anything like stations at all.
I don't except Missions from them, except perhaps "Refuel Carrier - Donate 1,000,000 tons of Hydrogen Fuel".
I don't expect Commodities to be bought or sold.
I don't expect Black Markets.
I don't expect ships for sale.
I'd be surprised if they offered Repair services.
I'd be a bit less surprised if they offered refueling or rearming.
I'd only be a little surprised if they DIDN'T allow ship or module transfer, even if this was offered to the Carrier owner only.
I don't expect Carriers to be damageable, or to have any weapons, save MAYBE those like Megaships/Stations to shoot idiots off your large pads when they try to block them.
I don't expect Power Contacts.
I don't expect Legal Contacts.
I don't expect much, really, except an avalanche of Forum Salt when people find out they can't use these as giant Mobile Death Machines.
I also reserve the right to point and laugh in the tear-stained faces of anyone expecting more from Carriers.

They will prob have refuel / rearm / restock functions as a bare minimum, at a cost of materials or commods from the ship's store.
But squadron members may have to transfer resources or mats from their ships to keep that stockpile up.

Maybe a Commander's lounge for the squadron to get into and chat.?

Interstellar factors office would prob not be a far-fetched idea as it could be seen as a collaboration between a squadron and organization.
Prob would not need a cost as IF already takes a cut of your profits for claims,and charges you a fee to clear your name.

Maybe outfitting? While weapons, utility and optional modules can be easily ferried onboard by squadron pilots, stripped from their ships, and put in the ship's store, core modules can't. That could actually make sense as core modules would require a real dry-dock facility as opposed to shipboard maintenance crews.

 

[Han Zulu]

One thing to consider though that might be an feature to the carrier for a squadron is when (if?) space legs comes out. The squad members could meet in the war room in "person".

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

One thing to consider though that might be an feature to the carrier for a squadron is when (if?) space legs comes out. The squad members could meet in the war room in "person".

Or one of several identical war rooms, due to instancing issues.

 

[Han Zulu]

Or one of several identical war rooms, due to instancing issues.

lol. Yeah, didn't think of that. Maybe they can have a different instancing for legs within a carrier? Still, a 100 member squad might be a challenge anyhow.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Well an aircraft CARRIER can rearm, refuel, store planes, store cargo, and defend itself, all while managing to float.

I think you’re going too narrow in scope. I think rearm, refuel and repair will be the absolute minimum

The 3-R's are not outside the realm of possible, or even plausible, and I wouldn't be surprised to see these things have a sort of "cargo storage", though not in the same manner you might expect - I wouldn't be surprised by, or opposed to these things storing Materials, vastly more than the ships they carry could. And to what end? Why, for Synthesis purposes - how else would the be able to Rearm, Repair and Refuel all those ships aboard?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Using that as a basis, I am a solo player with a fleet of over 60 ships. I need a carrier to move my fleet. A carrier that I alone own. It will definitely be a fleet carrier, even for a solo player.

That is correct. I don't oppose this notion.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Max factor keeps pointing out that its likely going to take longer to fuel the ship than it is to jump there yourself. Without station utility these will be questionable.

The person who spoke to Adam designer hinted that was a challenge they were thinking through though.

I think they will have some station utilities, but again I suspect that they will need to be "refilled". I can't see why they would be there for free unless they were connected into the BGS and commodity markets, which again I can't see happening. Have it like synthesis, but a larger more efficient version. Commanders put in their materials in to the material bank and they can restock from that at a better rate then doing it themselves. The downside is that you need to get back to the carrier to do that.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I think they will have some station utilities, but again I suspect that they will need to be "refilled". I can't see why they would be there for free unless they were connected into the BGS and commodity markets, which again I can't see happening. Have it like synthesis, but a larger more efficient version. Commanders put in their materials in to the material bank and they can restock from that at a better rate then doing it themselves. The downside is that you need to get back to the carrier to do that.

I hope they are going to have commodities storage too, say a nice 100000 tonnes. Couldn't go mining while exploring otherwise.

Even better would be to introduce lore that these are actually public stations, and have npcs participating with the station as they do for bases, but that's a bit too science / frontier fiction to realistically expect.

 

[yianniv]

It is entirely possible that carrier content is specifically for hardcore guild-gamers. Right now that demographic has nothing in ED.

I do see where you're coming from. The idea of owning a carrier is cool. But sometimes that cool factor is a big part of why that content needs to be used for group content. Otherwise guild-gamers have nothing, and in an online game, they are very important demographic if a dev' wants to keep their game going for an extended time. They are the players who will play daily for years.

Why the exclusiveness, though? Isn't that a bit selfish? Also, although I am just one, I play every day, too, since March 2017, and don't intend to go away. I bet there are more single players like me around.
It's a bit ironic that group players who want FCs just for the squadrons advocate just for a part of the community, whilst us, lone wolves, would like to share them with everybody.

 

[dxm55]

Or one of several identical war rooms, due to instancing issues.

Unless FD changes the instancing code to ensure that all members of a squadron get into the same instance together.
Or at least while onboard the carrier.....