Study finds that 74% have been harrassed in online muliplayer games.

[Zetta]

So what you're saying is that a person who grew up in a totally different time with a totally different set of circumstances feels they have the right to judge other people on what should or shouldn't affect them....

You are the quintessential old man yelling Get off my lawn!! We had to walk up hill both ways!! You young'uns don't know how easy you've got it...

I'm 45 years old, I've been round the block a few times but the world moves on. You either move with it or you get your red baseball cap out and start chanting silly slogans.

 

[Glacieredapollo]

So what you're saying is that a person who grew up in a totally different time with a totally different set of circumstances feels they have the right to judge other people on what should or shouldn't affect them....

You are the quintessential old man yelling Get off my lawn!! We had to walk up hill both ways!! You young'uns don't know how easy you've got it...

I'm 45 years old, I've been round the block a few times but the world moves on. You either move with it or you get your red baseball cap out and start chanting silly slogans.

No, what Mole is suggesting is the same thing that a lot of studies have also suggested; that the limits of human suffering are fairly arbitrary and are set by the resilience imparted to you as a youngster. The further we go along with the "everybody's feelings are a special flower" bullcrap, the less resilient we are as a society. So what's bullying to a spoiled coddled child was just cutting our teeth to people who grew up learning how to actually navigate our emotions in a way that didn't leave us crippled.

What's really frustrating to watch is when people actively add fuel to the notion that there's a systemic problem when, especially in online interactions, it's often isolated incidents that are categorized by systems or people that didn't know the context but don't care about the context anyway because it fits their narrative, enter the study that you posited

 

[Mole HD]

So what you're saying is that a person who grew up in a totally different time with a totally different set of circumstances feels they have the right to judge other people on what should or shouldn't affect them....

You are the quintessential old man yelling Get off my lawn!! We had to walk up hill both ways!! You young'uns don't know how easy you've got it...

I'm 45 years old, I've been round the block a few times but the world moves on. You either move with it or you get your red baseball cap out and start chanting silly slogans.

Not what I said or intended to portray at all...although apart from reading your own agenda into my wording and misunderstanding the intent totally, there is some merit in your sentiment...but I stopped feeling the need to go chanting silly slogans and wishing to be involved with petty human politicking around the time a 14 year old boy who had never even seen a personal computer or posted pictures of a cat on Facebook fired an RPG at the small Russian jeep I was in and killed 3 of my close friends.

 

[Vasea Azure]

There is no enough reputation in my part of the galaxy to give ya Mole hah! Although I have no near the life experience as you mate I wholeheartedly agree, as I feel the same. Folks these days are getting way to sensitive especially over the things on the internet. Everything is taken way to seriously or as a personal offence.
Zetta, as much as I understand the issue, sadly the best thing is just to "grow some thick skin" in my opinion. As I mentioned, when online we are agreeing on interacting with so many people its really hard to "fix it all". And even if people would start as you say acting against the "verbal abuse" and such - I believe that there are way much more others who would just keep doing their thing and everything would get even worse. Sorry for blathering, simply put I do not have much faith in human goodness, and this course of action would be futile.
Also with current trend of "keeping everything sterile/too safe" we really opening a dangerous trend of becoming very week emotionally and very fragile.
It could be that I`m simply unable to see/adapt to certain things. Ehh, back to my veranda, I think there are some teenagers stomping over my grass, time to Gettoff my lawn!

 

[Zetta]

No, what Mole is suggesting is the same thing that a lot of studies have also suggested; that the limits of human suffering are fairly arbitrary and are set by the resilience imparted to you as a youngster. The further we go along with the "everybody's feelings are a special flower" bullcrap, the less resilient we are as a society. So what's bullying to a spoiled coddled child was just cutting our teeth to people who grew up learning how to actually navigate our emotions in a way that didn't leave us crippled

Link your studies yeah? I'm kind of interested in reading them.

So let me get this right, you're saying that someone facing abuse should essentially be thankful because it will make them a stronger person. Do you want to clarify that?

One of the primary reasons suicide is so high in men <45 is due to not being able to deal. That's my generation who grew up with no molly-coddling at all. If they were brought up as non-emotionally crippled hard men why are they all bumping themselves off?

 

[Maolagin]

I think people nowadays feel "harassed" too easily.

In fact I believe western society has become far too emotionally fragile, and it only seems to be getting worse. Where it will end up only the future will tell.

Oh, to the contrary, I think what we're going through are just the awkward growing pains accompanying an entirely wholesome transition. For the longest time, the way the world tended to work regarding harassment was that, if someone was picking on you, your options depended on your station. You could fight back, if you had the privilege to do so; or you could go somewhere else, if you had the freedom to do that; or you could grin and bear it. And that enabled a lot of people to be casually abusive to (some of) the people in their vicinity. A few of those people got to like it, but I imagine a whole lot more didn't even realize they were doing it, because it's hard to be aware of what nobody ever points out to you.

So I'm optimistic that we're moving into a mode of operation where people actually do point this kind of thing out in a much broader way. Ultimately that will lead to a nicer world as people self-correct in response to the new feedback. But in the meantime plenty of folks are going to observe that it sure seems like people are complaining more than they used to. Just keep in mind that the complaining isn't the problem, the problem was always there and the complaining is part of the solution.

 

[Glacieredapollo]

...As I mentioned, when online we are agreeing on interacting with so many people...

This.

By even getting online we are entering a social contract to agree that there might be some nasty stuff out there.

TLDR; don't put your hand on the stove and expect not to get burned

 

[Glacieredapollo]

Link your studies yeah? I'm kind of interested in reading them.

So let me get this right, you're saying that someone facing abuse should essentially be thankful because it will make them a stronger person. Do you want to clarify that?

One of the primary reasons suicide is so high in men <45 is due to not being able to deal. That's my generation who grew up with no molly-coddling at all. If they were brought up as non-emotionally crippled hard men why are they all bumping themselves off?

This is one of many, I don't have them all bookmarked but this is a research paper showing that resilience is a relative aspect of psyche (e.g. what is resilient for one is still weakness for another)

I'm at work, if you want to debate this further or if you want more, PM me and I'll go back and find the others as well.

Frontiers | Understanding resilience

Resilience is the ability to adapt successfully in the face of stress and adversity. Stressful life events, trauma, and chronic adversity can have a substant...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Zetta]

There is no enough reputation in my part of the galaxy to give ya Mole hah! Although I have no near the life experience as you mate I wholeheartedly agree, as I feel the same. Folks these days are getting way to sensitive especially over the things on the internet. Everything is taken way to seriously or as a personal offence.
Zetta, as much as I understand the issue, sadly the best thing is just to "grow some thick skin" in my opinion. As I mentioned, when online we are agreeing on interacting with so many people its really hard to "fix it all". And even if people would start as you say acting against the "verbal abuse" and such - I believe that there are way much more others who would just keep doing their thing and everything would get even worse. Sorry for blathering, simply put I do not have much faith in human goodness, and this course of action would be futile.

I understand why you guys think people should just shrug it off but at the same time it makes me wonder if people are just speaking down from their ivory towers, it brings to mind a bunch of old farts with no experience in pregancy deciding what women should be allowed and not allowed to do with their bodies...

I went through a lot of abuse as a youngster, I grew up in a very violent household so I know all about pretending to have a thick skin and showing that words can't hurt me. But I will say this, all the beatings I went through are completely forgotten, the only thing that sticks with you are the effects of the verbal abuse.

Also with current trend of "keeping everything sterile/too safe" we really opening a dangerous trend of becoming very week emotionally and very fragile.
It could be that I`m simply unable to see/adapt to certain things. Ehh, back to my veranda, I think there are some teenagers stomping over my grass, time to Gettoff my lawn!

There's defintely validity in that, some times it goes way too far for my liking, situations try too hard with forced inclusiveness and forced diversity etc but that is not what this is really about. The survey covers racism, homophobia and ethnicity issues as well. As a society we have largely moved on from those issues it's sad to see it continuing to be weaponised.

 

[Zetta]

This is one of many, I don't have them all bookmarked but this is a research paper showing that resilience is a relative aspect of psyche (e.g. what is resilient for one is still weakness for another)

I'm at work, if you want to debate this further or if you want more, PM me and I'll go back and find the others as well.

Frontiers | Understanding resilience

Resilience is the ability to adapt successfully in the face of stress and adversity. Stressful life events, trauma, and chronic adversity can have a substant...

www.frontiersin.org

Thanks for linking that. I'll have a read.

 

[Glacieredapollo]

I understand why you guys think people should just shrug it off but at the same time it makes me wonder if people are just speaking down from their ivory towers, it brings to mind a bunch of old farts with no experience in pregancy deciding what women should be allowed and not allowed to do with their bodies...

I went through a lot of abuse as a youngster, I grew up in a very violent household so I know all about pretending to have a thick skin and showing that words can't hurt me. But I will say this, all the beatings I went through are completely forgotten, the only thing that sticks with you are the effects of the verbal abuse.



There's defintely validity in that, some times it goes way too far for my liking, situations try too hard with forced inclusiveness and forced diversity etc but that is not what this is really about. The survey covers racism, homophobia and ethnicity issues as well. As a society we have largely moved on from those issues it's sad to see it continuing to be weaponised.

I'm sympathetic to the suffering that you and others have suffered at the hands of whoever did that to you. My condolences. This is not the same as what you endured though and posting the thing that you posted lays the foundation for the forced inclusivity and going too far that you lamented at the end of your post

 

[Jezzah]

A thick skin isnt even necessary.

If someone gets on your nerves in the street face to face. The best reaction to it is to walk away. It can be a hard thing to do.

If someone does the same in a game. The best reaction is to ignore it or walk away. The difference is it's even easier than real life..literally a click or two.

 

[Chris Simon]

I went through a lot of abuse as a youngster, I grew up in a very violent household so I know all about pretending to have a thick skin and showing that words can't hurt me. But I will say this, all the beatings I went through are completely forgotten, the only thing that sticks with you are the effects of the verbal abuse.

I'm sorry to hear that. Yes, I can see now why you may be much more sensitive to this kind of stuff.

 

[Zetta]

I'm sorry to hear that. Yes, I can see now why you may be much more sensitive to this kind of stuff.

That is a really bad choice of words This is not about sensitivity. I like to think there's quite a bit of difference between sensitivity and empathy.

A thick skin isnt even necessary.

If someone gets on your nerves in the street face to face. The best reaction to it is to walk away. It can be a hard thing to do.

If someone does the same in a game. The best reaction is to ignore it or walk away. The difference is it's even easier than real life..literally a click or two.

Meh I am not a fan of submissiveness, bullies/abusers love their targets to be submissive.

 

[Chris Simon]

That is a really bad choice of words This is not about sensitivity. I like to think there's quite a bit of difference between sensitivity and empathy.

Yes. quite. Empathy is the ability to understand other person's point of view.
Sensitivity is comparing real life bullying and physical and verbal abuse, which are one of the worst things one human can do to another, to being teabagged in a videogame. Or rather not seeing a difference between the two.

 

[Cmdr Mander]

Watch out for those egg shells.

 

[Jezzah]

Meh I am not a fan of submissiveness, bullies/abusers love their targets to be submissive.

I've tried to write a reply here without coming off as patronising. I've just got to say it simple I'm sorry. I dont think you get it. You've more than once said you dont know the answer. The real answer is ignoring them however you choose to do it. Populate servers with good admins etc etc.

This isnt the same as real life like say the school yard bully where there can be real consequences and people can turn around the plucky guy can stick him one in the nose. Etc etc

The online world where these folk are carrying on THRIVE from reaction, being "submissive" isnt the right way to describe the act of ignoring or leaving the server. Giving them credence and acknowledgement is foolish and how you cant seem to get that makes me think you dont really understand the multiplayer world.

Anyway the thread is going round in a self licking lolly sort of way so I'll back out.

 

[Morbad]

1. The games that are listed in the report as being the safest include Fortnite, however the second most influential game which causes players change their online behavior to protect themselves is also... Fortnite. I'm having a hard time digesting the data analysis that these two seemingly conflicting statistics suggest.

Well, the "Study" also say 74% players have been harrassed in online games" and "88% of players have been satisfied with their experience in online games" in one breath.

While I find some of the conclusions questionable, I don't see any contradiction in the statistics reported.

I would say that I've been harassed in some form in most any multiplayer online game I've experienced for any significant period of time, but it would take vastly more, and vastly more profound, harassment than I've ever experienced to significantly detract from my overall experience, and an almost inconcievable level to make me feel unsafe, even if I felt it prudent to change certain behaviors to minimize distractions or protect my privacy.

Harassment of other players is near omnipresent and that's unfortunate (and something I would not tolerate in venus I controlled), but I also don't see it as that big deal, especially as gaming is a very much opt-in scenario. One may not be able to reasonably avoid their parents, spouses, coworkers, or peers, but they can certainly refrain from playing, or refrain from acknowledging, harassment within online games.

But I will say this, all the beatings I went through are completely forgotten, the only thing that sticks with you are the effects of the verbal abuse.

Not saying that words can't do lasting harm, but I feel the effects of the deviated septum I acquired with every change in barometric pressure, the way the orbital bones of my right eye socket never mended quite correctly every time I wash my face, and that the tips of both of my left canines are missing every time I open or close my mouth, or drink something cold.

 

[Demascus]

I have this thing call " thick skin" it allows me to interact with society at large with little to no emotional impact.

 

[Zetta]

I've tried to write a reply here without coming off as patronising. I've just got to say it simple I'm sorry. I dont think you get it. You've more than once said you dont know the answer. The real answer is ignoring them however you choose to do it. Populate servers with good admins etc etc.

Jezzah, you have been banging this drum since you entered the thread, each time I have told you why I disagree with your stance and why it is not enough. No matter how many times I say it you come back with the exact same thing, no matter how patronising you want to be, no matter how arrogant you want to be about thinking you have the sole answer to everyone's woes - it is not enough.

You either don't fully see the issue at hand here or you want to dumb it down so that you feel your old school adage fixes everything.

If it was enough it would make people think "Meh I'm not getting a good enough reaction from this, it is not worth the hassle" but we all know that is not the case. Your wonder solution totally ignores all the extended harrassment that people go through. It's one thing to hear a racist slur and block someone but there is case after case of people going on entended campaigns, using numerous alts, following people from server to server, game to game, taking the abuse from the game to social media, using all sorts of ignenious methods to get to the person they want to target.

This isnt the same as real life like say the school yard bully where there can be real consequences and people can turn around the plucky guy can stick him one in the nose. Etc etc

I am aware of this.

The online world where these folk are carrying on THRIVE from reaction, being "submissive" isnt the right way to describe the act of ignoring or leaving the server. Giving them credence and acknowledgement is foolish and how you cant seem to get that makes me think you dont really understand the multiplayer world.

Anyway the thread is going round in a self licking lolly sort of way so I'll back out.

And this just shows how you cannot see the forest for the trees. You are so hung up on the fact that "block and move on" fixes all that you literally cannot entertain there is anything more to the discussion.

Please have a read of https://www.theguardian.com/games/2...in-online-video-games-overwatch-rainbow-seige

Games culture is struggling with a pervasive lie: that it’s simply not possible to stop players from behaving like abusive jerks.

Log in to any online game or popular stream and there is a good chance you’ll run into hostility, trash talk and aggression from strangers over voice or text chat. As it does everywhere online, this hostility disproportionately affects the marginalised: women, people of colour, LGBT people. The common use of slurs and other demeaning language creates an unwelcoming space.

It is certainly not an easy problem to solve, but neither is it an inevitability we have to live with. When game developers choose to prioritise the issue, they can have a highly positive impact.

My stance is that the gaming community can do its own part to contribute to this sort of action.

There’s still a stubborn perception in the games community that online abuse is just a fact of life – or worse, that dishing it out is an integral part of enjoying a game – and that anyone bothered by it needs to grow thicker skin or stop playing all together. These assertions are constantly used to rebuff those who want to speak out about their experiences, which only helps abusive players to be tolerated.