It truly boggles the mind to think that people who pay attention to what's going on with the game, don't complain when they still don't get what Frontier trailed in 2012 until 2020 at best.
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Complaining doesn't really make them dev any faster.
Possibly makes them dev smarter at points though perhaps. I'm glad the crit of Seasons was heard. (And I'll take longer dev lead time if it leads to a better product. This is part of the global view others are talking about it).
Not sure what's to be gained from consta-complaining about the quality & quantity of PDLC delivery when they're in the middle of doing something about it though.
Agreed .... and expectations have been fueled, at the absolute minimum, that 2020 will see updates/DLC/patches which will add a big new component part to the evolution of ED.
Until then, patience I guess.
Calling out FDev when they drop the ball is appropriate and required frankly .... how it's done is important though also.
You're right, there really isn't any point to posting in the forums at all.
The most effective constructive crit might lie somewhere between those two extremes
It all depends on what the complaints are. You've left out the context of what I said - that being that people complain that their lofty expectations for a given update weren't met when Frontier had already put the information out on what that given update would contain.
For example, complaining that a small free update for improving a specific part of the game, didn't contain spacelegs or atmospheric landings or all those other major paid expansion-level features.
Giving constructive criticism of certain parts of the game is far more useful for seeing what needs improvement.
But also, showing large scale discontent and complaining about something can also show Frontier where they've overstepped, which is what hopefully the protest about the store buttons will achieve.
It all depends on the context.
Complaining a specific update doesn't contain spacelegs, doesn't serve anyone and isn't useful in any way. Expecting those updates to contain a major feature just shows exactly what Barking_Mad said: an attitude of living patch-to-patch without seeing the bigger picture.
Under such an attitude, if Frontier said "Our next update will improve our underlying geometry for planet generation and pave the way for more enhancements in the future, but for a patch or two it will mean planetary terrain features are going to be adversely affected." When we get to said patch, and the terrain gets ruined, those with the patch-to-patch attitude will cry "THE GAME IS FOREVER RUINED" or "Frontier don't know what they're doing", or even the old chestnut "It's being simplified for consoles!" And then, two patches later when the terrain is fixed as Frontier planned it to be, they'll cry "See! Our complaints have been effective!"
With a patch-to-patch mentality, every update from Frontier must seem really scattershot.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
The idea comes from a complete and abrupt change of expectations.
Remember how well and throughout Beyond was presented on the Frontier Expo and followed-up on...? also it was said Beyond is a revisit of core gameplay before Elite will be further expanded. Everyone expected a major expansion at the doorstep - and all we got is 'see you in two years guys'!
I could imagine that they revisit the peer-to-peer online bit along with revisiting the core of the engine to better accommodate legs.
And, at the very least, all existing assets -aside of the cockpits- must be revisited/remastered to meet the LOD required for first person view. Perhaps some with relevant background could estimate at what level it is easier to start from scratch again.
Disclaimer: I don't pretend to understand game development, just speculate from bits and pieces I learnt/read as a gamer.
Edit: Anyone can provide an example when a ~5-year old game gets a 2-year long rework/relaunch?
Guild Wars developers were working on a massive update, before realising their design wouldn't work with the game. So they developed Guild Wars 2 instead.
I can't think of another other examples though.
It wasn't out 5 years before being reworked, but Final Fantasy 14 at launch in 2010 was a disaster. The game was left running with only necessary bug fixes being applied while in the background the entire game was completely reworked over the course of three years to be re-launched in 2013 as the Final Fantasy 14 we know today. It's a pretty incredible story.
(That is just part 1 of a 3-part documentary. I'd reccommend watching all 3, it's really interesting stuff)
Hasn't both the client and server side of Eve been rewritten several times, bit like replacing the handle and then the brush of a broom, so it doesn't have a v1.0 line of code left in it?
That's what I expect is happening with the 'New Era'. As long as they don't change the core of elite ( especially the flight model), then I'll probably be happy.
X3 Terran Conflict (2008) and X3 Albion Prelude (2011) probably qualify, as they aren't available as discrete expansions to 2005's X3 Reunion, and both contained considerable reworks of core gameplay mechanics
So essentially what they've been doing since day one.
Almost all areas of Elite have seen rewrites.
My mind is boggled by how upset people can get about video games and change.
Sorry, no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, these are the rewrites that have been happening since quite a long time. The P2P code for example has seen several iterations and has been severely improved since the days it basically didn't work at all...
You mean the things which have always been described as taking a lot of time and effort? Maybe you should take a look at what they've actually said rather than what you made up in your mind.
Quick question - for all the peeps with a HOTAS setup - how is space legs gonna work??
I have a HOTAS setup but its currently in a cupboard (using a PS3 controller and a mouse atm) - the switch to FPS won't bother me with that, but just using the HOTAS will v.difficult for FPS style gameplay. On top of that I've seen people have quite complex custom built cockpits and gaming chair setups for this game - are they going to have to quickly switch to something else whenever the game goes First person?
I actually don't mind either way, just had a funny image of people madly swapping controllers mid game.
I have a HOTAS setup but its currently in a cupboard (using a PS3 controller and a mouse atm) - the switch to FPS won't bother me with that, but just using the HOTAS will v.difficult for FPS style gameplay. On top of that I've seen people have quite complex custom built cockpits and gaming chair setups for this game - are they going to have to quickly switch to something else whenever the game goes First person?
I actually don't mind either way, just had a funny image of people madly swapping controllers mid game.
Mouse is next to the joystick for long range rails, keyboard is on my lap for menu's/manoeuvring thrusters/other gubbins. Just a matter of moving my hands a bit.
Yeah k/m transition for classic play sounds the path of least resistance. I'm sure they'll support everything they can tho, and people will use Xbox controllers in holsters and that
VR is trickier. Virtual joystick + cockpit interfaces would be my preferred solution, to avoid controller swapping, but it's a fair bit of dev. And would mean my hotas gathering dust
This honestly is a good point, which I never even thought of. I'm a big fan of WASD control, not so much a modern console controller (give me a SNES or NES controller, that's my jam). I wonder if we will be able to map WASD when (and if) we go "space boots on the ground"
Still waiting on a supercruise assist toggle binding...
THAT would really be the "New Era". Unfortunatly FDev remains silent like a fish regarding the next pdlc.