Arctic Animal Issues

[Mjmannella]

There's several issues with the Arctic animals that I hope get fixed soon.
1. Taxonomy

Here's the Zoopedia page for the Arctic wolf. Notice that the Latin name is Canus lupus arctos (a subspecies of grey wolf).

Here's the Zoopedia page for the timber wolf. Notice that the Latin name is Canis Lupus (referring to all grey wolves, including Arctic wolves!)
As you can see, this doesn't really make sense. Ideally, the timber wolf should be renamed to the Eurasian wolf (Canis lupus lupus) to help differentiate the two animals.

2. Locations

It should be obvious here, but as you can see this sign is saying that Arctic wolves live in Antarctica. For an education board, it's not great that it's displaying fake facts. This applies to the "education" boards for the reindeer and polar bear as well, and the reindeer have things worse off.

Reindeer are suffering a triple-whammy of errors. Not only are they listed as being found in Antarctica and being least concern instead of vulnerable, but the Zoopedia says one of their native continents is Russia. Planet Zoo developers, Russia is not a continent.

3. Continent Discrepancies

As you can see from these images, polar bears and Arctic wolves prefer foliage from the Arctic continent. However, there's no foliage that is in the Arctic continent (as there's no filter for the Arctic continent). This is really bad for people who like decorating their habitats with foliage that their animals will actually like. But wait...

In the habitat plant filter, there's filters for Arctic and Antarctic foliage, both of which don't exist. It seems like someone forgot to give those continent tags to some plants.

I implore that these errors issues get shared for a quick fix (perhaps in the new year).

 

[Mkau]

Here's the Zoopedia page for the timber wolf. Notice that the Latin name is Canis Lupus (referring to all grey wolves, including Arctic wolves!)
As you can see, this doesn't really make sense. Ideally, the timber wolf should be renamed to the Eurasian wolf (Canis lupus lupus)

The problem is that we don't really know what subspecies the wolf is really meant to be.If it's an Eurasian Wolf then it should be Canis lupus lupus,but if it's really meant to be a"Timber Wolf" then it should be Canis lupus lycaon or Canis lupus occidentalis.Maybe it's really meant to be a generic "all in one package" wolf,but that would really question the inclusion of Canis lupus arctos.
The zoopedia facts regarding the wolf need to be changed accordingly,too.

 

[LN]

Where is the link to the Issue Tracker so we can upvote?

 

[Mjmannella]

Where is the link to the Issue Tracker so we can upvote?

This is really multiple issues at once. Which one do you believe is most important? I'll make an issue for that and link to this thread for reference.

 

[Arrakai]

This is really multiple issues at once. Which one do you believe is most important? I'll make an issue for that and link to this thread for reference.

For me, the foliage issue is the biggest

 

[LN]

This is really multiple issues at once. Which one do you believe is most important? I'll make an issue for that and link to this thread for reference.

All of them equally important, althought there is more stuff that needs attention.

 

[Mjmannella]

For me, the foliage issue is the biggest

This was already reported. So I'll report the taxonomy issue.

 

[Kai]

The problem is that we don't really know what subspecies the wolf is really meant to be.If it's an Eurasian Wolf then it should be Canis lupus lupus,but if it's really meant to be a"Timber Wolf" then it should be Canis lupus lycaon or Canis lupus occidentalis.Maybe it's really meant to be a generic "all in one package" wolf,but that would really question the inclusion of Canis lupus arctos.
The zoopedia facts regarding the wolf need to be changed accordingly,too.

Looking at the description I think they just made a generic gray wolf; I suspect it was one of the earlier animals they created, and they just never went back to update it.
Honestly, I'm not really that bothered about which sub-species it's meant to be - I just want the poor thing to get some coat colour variations already.

 

[Kiwolf]

There's several issues with the Arctic animals that I hope get fixed soon.
1. Taxonomy

Here's the Zoopedia page for the Arctic wolf. Notice that the Latin name is Canus lupus arctos (a subspecies of grey wolf).

Here's the Zoopedia page for the timber wolf. Notice that the Latin name is Canis Lupus (referring to all grey wolves, including Arctic wolves!)
As you can see, this doesn't really make sense. Ideally, the timber wolf should be renamed to the Eurasian wolf (Canis lupus lupus) to help differentiate the two animals.

2. Locations

It should be obvious here, but as you can see this sign is saying that Arctic wolves live in Antarctica. For an education board, it's not great that it's displaying fake facts. This applies to the "education" boards for the reindeer and polar bear as well, and the reindeer have things worse off.

Arctic wolves are a subspecies.. it's actual scientific name is Arctic wolf (Canis lupus arctos). So no, they are not wrong in placing the name like that. Click on either below..
Arctic wolf
Timber wolf

 

[Mjmannella]

Arctic wolves are a subspecies.. it's actual scientific name is Arctic wolf (Canis lupus arctos). So no, they are not wrong in placing the name like that. Click on either below..
Arctic wolf
Timber wolf

I said that the scientific name is Canis lupus arctos, but the in-game timber wolf is just called Canis lupus, and not an exact subspecies. This means that we have both the entire species and a select subspecies, which is rather awkward.

 

[Kiwolf]

The problem is that we don't really know what subspecies the wolf is really meant to be.If it's an Eurasian Wolf then it should be Canis lupus lupus,but if it's really meant to be a"Timber Wolf" then it should be Canis lupus lycaon or Canis lupus occidentalis.Maybe it's really meant to be a generic "all in one package" wolf,but that would really question the inclusion of Canis lupus arctos.
The zoopedia facts regarding the wolf need to be changed accordingly,too.

No read what i posted above.. Those are the actual scientific names they go under.. WWF is one of the world leading conservation programs.. Doubt they would get their scientific information wrong.

 

[Mjmannella]

No read what i posted above.. Those are the actual scientific names they go under.. WWF is one of the world leading conservation programs.. Doubt they would get their scientific information wrong.

That doesn't solve the issue. We still have both the whole species and a select subspecies.

 

[Kiwolf]

I said that the scientific name is Canis lupus arctos, but the in-game timber wolf is just called Canis lupus, and not an exact subspecies. This means that we have both the entire species and a select subspecies, which is rather awkward.

What I am telling you is that you are nit picking about the names when even conservation organizations don't list them as anything then exactly what the game lists them as.. I do agree that they got the location wrong for at least the arctic wolf.. but then again, those links also tell you that.. so lets see.. where exactly am I going wrong?

 

[Mkau]

What I am telling you is that you are nit picking about the names when even conservation organizations don't list them as anything then exactly what the game lists them as.. I do agree that they got the location wrong for at least the arctic wolf.. but then again, those links also tell you that.. so lets see.. where exactly am I going wrong?

You are actually totally wrong and didn't quite get the actual point @Mjmannella and myself made.
Canis lupus refers to the WHOLE gray wolf species,this means the arctic wolf is already a part of it,just like all the other subspecies.So technically it means,that the arctic wolf is 2 times ingame.
Canis lupus = every single subspecies like Eurasian,Red,Timber,Arctic,Mexican etc. -wolf.
Canis lupus arctos = Arctic Wolf.

 

[VetGirl330]

The Reindeer in the game is Rangifer tarandus. Frontier did not specify a subspecies, and I do not think there is any need to. I would rather they leave out the subspecies in most cases to give us, the player, more flexibility with the existing game assets. Frontier left out the entire continent of North America from R. tarandus range. In North America the wild reindeer may more correctly be referred to as caribou, but that is just semantics; it's still the same species. There range map should like this:

Looking at the description I think they just made a generic gray wolf; I suspect it was one of the earlier animals they created, and they just never went back to update it. Honestly, I'm not really that bothered about which sub-species it's meant to be -.

I'm also in favor of a generic gray wolf. Call me bias, but as an American I would support Canis lupus occidentalis, as the most common and iconic species. However I would argue that if they insist on the name Timber wolf that Canis lupus lycaon is most correct. And I surely understand where Europeans want Canis lupus lupus. I hope someday to have enough species to make a beautiful Mongolian steppe theme, and the wolf could just as easily be Canis lupus chanco or Canis lupus campestris. Truth is that the vast majority of wolf subspecies are not different enough for the lay person to tell them apart, especially after you cartoonize and digitize them. I would really like Frontier to change the name in game from Timber wolf to Gray wolf.

I think one of the lessons we have learned here is that Frontier needs to come up with some consistency it comes to whether they are going to specify animals to the species or subspecies level. A few animals are iconic and variable enough that the inclusion of the subspecies is logical (i.e. grizzly bear, Ursus arctos horribilis). But I would argue that for a zoo game with a worldwide player base and that regardless of the ultimate number of DLC will always have a limited number of animals, in most cases designation of subspecies is unnecessary and needlessly restrictive. I am still bitter over the Formosan black bear (Ursus thibetanus formosanus) and wish that my animals and signage were designated a generic Ursus thibetanus, Asiatic Black Bear. I am equally confused by the West African Lion (Panthera leo leo). When the vast majority of people think about lions, they think of the majestic predators on the plains of the East (e.g. Serengeti) or Southern Africa; not a tiny isolated population in West Africa. Not to mention the subdivision of lions into numerous subspecies, such as the West African Lion, fell out of favor years ago. And the zoopedia map that Frontier uses does not correspond to the West African Lion, nor to the two actual subspecies Panthera leo leo or P. l. melanochaita; there map is for a generic African lion (P. leo) which is really what the species should be named in game.
You think by now that Frontier would get the message that various subspecies of the same animal are not popular (at least while so many other full genera go unrepresented). The arctic wolf has not been well received. I still think that the Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is the most disappointing and bizarre inclusion in the whole game.

 

[Kai]

-snip-
You think by now that Frontier would get the message that various subspecies of the same animal are not popular (at least while so many other full genera go unrepresented). The arctic wolf has not been well received. I still think that the Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is the most disappointing and bizarre inclusion in the whole game.

I'll agree with everything else, but I actually changed my mind on the arctic wolf - I do really like the new model (even if it is still a remodel of the timber wolf). I just kinda wish they'd added a musk ox or arctic fox instead of another wolf (and not released a paid DLC so close to launch/while the games still buggy af).

I'm quite happy to see them add in more subspecies (malayan tapir, ruffed lemurs, black/white rhinos, Grévy's zebra, Rothschild's/masai giraffe, etc), so long as they're added along with some new animal species.

 

[Kiwolf]

So why not also tell them that the timber wolf is actually known as the grey wolf.. Same problem but they are called both.. Yet their name is still :Canis Lupus. Grey wolf refers to everything listed

The Reindeer in the game is Rangifer tarandus. Frontier did not specify a subspecies, and I do not think there is any need to. I would rather they leave out the subspecies in most cases to give us, the player, more flexibility with the existing game assets. Frontier left out the entire continent of North America from R. tarandus range. In North America the wild reindeer may more correctly be referred to as caribou, but that is just semantics; it's still the same species. There range map should like this:
View attachment 156108


I'm also in favor of a generic gray wolf. Call me bias, but as an American I would support Canis lupus occidentalis, as the most common and iconic species. However I would argue that if they insist on the name Timber wolf that Canis lupus lycaon is most correct. And I surely understand where Europeans want Canis lupus lupus. I hope someday to have enough species to make a beautiful Mongolian steppe theme, and the wolf could just as easily be Canis lupus chanco or Canis lupus campestris. Truth is that the vast majority of wolf subspecies are not different enough for the lay person to tell them apart, especially after you cartoonize and digitize them. I would really like Frontier to change the name in game from Timber wolf to Gray wolf.

I think one of the lessons we have learned here is that Frontier needs to come up with some consistency it comes to whether they are going to specify animals to the species or subspecies level. A few animals are iconic and variable enough that the inclusion of the subspecies is logical (i.e. grizzly bear, Ursus arctos horribilis). But I would argue that for a zoo game with a worldwide player base and that regardless of the ultimate number of DLC will always have a limited number of animals, in most cases designation of subspecies is unnecessary and needlessly restrictive. I am still bitter over the Formosan black bear (Ursus thibetanus formosanus) and wish that my animals and signage were designated a generic Ursus thibetanus, Asiatic Black Bear. I am equally confused by the West African Lion (Panthera leo leo). When the vast majority of people think about lions, they think of the majestic predators on the plains of the East (e.g. Serengeti) or Southern Africa; not a tiny isolated population in West Africa. Not to mention the subdivision of lions into numerous subspecies, such as the West African Lion, fell out of favor years ago. And the zoopedia map that Frontier uses does not correspond to the West African Lion, nor to the two actual subspecies Panthera leo leo or P. l. melanochaita; there map is for a generic African lion (P. leo) which is really what the species should be named in game.
You think by now that Frontier would get the message that various subspecies of the same animal are not popular (at least while so many other full genera go unrepresented). The arctic wolf has not been well received. I still think that the Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is the most disappointing and bizarre inclusion in the whole game.

I agree with you on the wolf issue of the name timber wolf.. If they want to get it correct it should be grey wolf.. But at the same time Grey wolf is in reference to a lot of subspecies..

"Gray wolf, (Canis lupus), also called timber wolf, largest wild member of the dog family (Canidae). It inhabits vast areas of the Northern Hemisphere. Between 5 and 24 subspecies of gray wolves are recognized in North America and 7 to 12 are recognized in Eurasia, with 1 in Africa. " https://www.britannica.com/animal/gray-wolf.

And I am also going to correct your labels..

"According to recent genomic research, eastern wolves, previously considered a subspecies of gray wolf, Canis lupus lycaon, actually represent a separate species (Canis lycaon)." https://nywolf.org/learn/eastern-wolf/.

Nothwestern Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis)

Northwestern Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) – (Richardson 1829) Common Names: Mackenzie Valley wolf, Alaskan timber wolf, Canadian timber wolf, or northern timber wolf, Overall population: P…

thewolfintelligencer.com

In every article i have pulled up for the names you are proposing to give this animal.. the all refer to the exact same area ,"Northwestern wolf". Timber being names as one of them, yet they are all grey wolves.. all three scientific names you are talking about refer to the exact same wolf.. So here is the problem.. We have three completely different names for the same animals. That might be why there classifying them as Canis lupus... Canis lupus is the oldest scientific name for the wolf.

You have facts coming from multiple sources where each are calling them by different names.. WWF (one of the worlds leading conservation groups) calls them Canis lupus.. I don't agree on changing the "Canis Lupus" tag for the timber wolf in the game..

Even WWF has recognized the arctic wolf label as being right.. Canus lupus arctos : https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/arctic-wolf

So in my opinion, it should not be changed because players don't understand it.. maybe the players should actually learn something from what the game is wiling to actually teach us.. Not everyone is correct.. and i may be wrong on a few things.. but considering on how many different articles I have looked up this morning.. I don't think the designers of our game got that much wrong..

 

[Kiwolf]

Oh and just so you know, I have friends that work in Zoology.. Basically one of them told me.. knowing the correct names is basically what will get you an A in that class or have you failing.

 

[Mkau]

I agree with you on the wolf issue of the name timber wolf.. If they want to get it correct it should be grey wolf.. But at the same time Grey wolf is in reference to a lot of subspecies..

Wrong.The Gray Wolf Canis lupus is not a reference to a lot of subspecies,ALL subspecies are part of that species.

Gray wolf, (Canis lupus), also called timber wolf,

Wrong.The Gray wolf has no other name,the Timber Wolf is a subspecies.Either Canis lupus occidentalis or Canis lupus lycaon.

In every article i have pulled up for the names you are proposing to give this animal.. the all refer to the exact same area ,"Northwestern wolf". Timber being names as one of them, yet they are all grey wolves.. all three scientific names you are talking about refer to the exact same wolf.. So here is the problem.. We have three completely different names for the same animals. That might be why there classifying them as Canis lupus... Canis lupus is the oldest scientific name for the wolf.

Wrong.The Northwestern Gray Wolf (This includes the so called Timber Wolves) were believed to be a seperate species,just like the Red Wolf,but nowadays they are all considered to be subspecies of thr Gray Wolf Canis lupus.
The Family is Canidae,the Genus is Canis and the whole wolf species is Canis lupus.

Oh and just so you know, I have friends that work in Zoology.. Basically one of them told me.. knowing the correct names is basically what will get you an A in that class or have you failing.

You should really try to understand the difference between a whole species and a subspecies,because that's the point where you are mixing things up.
I am an ethologist and zoologist,specialized in mammals and now further specializing into the whole Canidae Family,in which the Canis lupus plays a huge role.I'm currently even slowly preparing to write my own book and might dedicate a special part of the book to the Ethiopian Wolf Canis simensis if I can manage to stay a bit longer and study them in Ethiopia.

 

[marcnesiumHH]

I am wondering if and when Frontier gonna adjust the Zoopedia. They seem to be very confident about it.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...y-released-into-the-game.533452/#post-8203196