Why the animals aren't the stars of the game - and what needs to be done about it

[sleepy_sloth]

Every time I try to play Planet Zoo I get Westworld-Vibes. It's all very pretty and polished, but also very dead. I honestly went back to Zoo Tycoon 2 (without mods, by the way) because it is just more fun overall . Some things that I would like to add to your list:

- Give animals chemistry between each other. Some individuals just dislike each other no matter what, while others get along great, even if it looked unlikely at first. They also need group dynamics. Social animals usually move in groups. They eat together, they sleep together, they hang out...

- Make breeding animals more difficult. In the moment you just drop a male and a female in an enclosure and in the next minute you have offspring. There is no sense of achievement when a panda cub is born in this game.

- Let them interact with the ground and water in a way that makes sense. Why are my ostriches constantly swimming? I'm aware that they are able to, but mine seem to have been raised by a duck. Why is no animal digging holes in the ground? Why are they not taking mud baths next to a pond?

-The lack of excitement from the guests is making everything worse. Not only are the sheer amounts of guests game breaking on lower end PC's, they are also more interested in buying a burger than seeing the white lion, the panda cub, or the 50 beautiful flamingos. They just stand three meters away from the animals and think " I guess the view on the animal is okay."

 

[paul78]

Well I will say this from what I’m hearing YouTubers and the people who are playing this game are saying we need new dlc at the moment. I played zt2 from 2006-2018 and I’m sorry I just don’t see it. In terms of being a better game or animals acting more realistic. Even in modded form. Easier to play? Sure zt2 is very easy to play in comparison when it comes to path layout and building sets. But planet zoo wasn’t supposed to be easy which is why there’s options. To me the difference in behavior is nursing but you probably won’t ever see that in a game again. However I do agree their needs to be more animal interactions and some more distinct personality based on individual. I think this may be the reason personally the game seemed rushed which all games nowadays are. That’s the problem with the shareholder system tho. When you take that into account they now are doing bug fixes consistently plus probably planned dlc plus everything else you could possibly have to deal with so your already playing catch up at this point. Just a opinion what’s going on here could be could not. Like I said I think when devs have more time maybe we do have some added behaviors. If I’ve learned anything from life tho is people are always going to find something to complain about something tho so you can’t please them all. Also speaking as a former member of the zt2 community this always happens people will say what this community needs is new game then the new game comes out and then the comparisons start. I’m sorry but zt2 is not the holy grail. Animals cant climb now I know it can be coded but there’s only 10-20 people working on this game. Interactions are the same as occasionally two tigers will rub against each other like on this game. And animations for the most part are terrible. Zt2 was a great game but even with all the mods they were pumping out it just felt like playing the same game over and over. Sure they’re will come a day when this game has run its course too unless the modders take over but for right now this is the zoo game I always wished zt2 was more like.

 

[paul78]

Just to make a point on flamingos for example the first photo is zt2 and that’s a lot of flamingos with no interactions. Planet zoo same. Sure occasionally interactions for both games. The point is not to bash either game but simply prove one is no better than the other.

Once again the same. The truth is the animals act exactly the same. Beavers do make nests on zt2 but with planet zoo currently not having beavers it’s impossible to compare. Birds do make nests on zt2 some anyway but once again hard to compare at this point. But nothing frontier couldn’t do themselves.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

- Give animals chemistry between each other. Some individuals just dislike each other no matter what, while others get along great, even if it looked unlikely at first. They also need group dynamics. Social animals usually move in groups. They eat together, they sleep together, they hang out...

All your ideas are great, but this one definately stood out to me. I had the same idea with the chemistry between a couple, but you put it way better and easier for the Devs to understand, so thank you very much for that! I agree that breeding is way to easy in the game. The only challenge the game has is about money, but there are almost none concerning the animals, once you have a habitat that meets their needs and sell animals when the maximum of a group is reached. But real life zoos face way more challenges when it comes to breeding and having a stable group.

I must say, with group animals it is especially visible how lifeless the animals are, because they don't really interact with each other or notice when there is a new animal in the habitat. They just start to immediately fight if it has the wrong gender but that's about it.

@paul78 I know lots of YouTubers are asking for a DLC to get the game fresh again. But as much as I want a DLC as well and can't wait for new content, I don't think this will change anything for the game in the long run. Lets face it, we are only 3 month away from the last DLC. If it weren't something with the core that was off, absolutely no gamer that usually is a long-term gamer would get bored after that short amount of time. (Again, I'm a builder and the Planet System is new to me, so that's why I'm not bored, but if it weren't for me being a builder, I might get grumpy by now as well).

However, there is one thing I guess we should all stop: Comparing Planet Zoo with any ZooTycoon game. This is not and was never meant to be a bew Zoo Tycoon installment and I guess the constant comparison is kind of disheartening for the Devs. It is like asking Van Gough constantly why he doesn't draw like Picasso. We need to concentrate on what THIS game needs.

However, there is one thing that the comparison should tell us all: That there is no lack of interest in Zoo games, like some people think. The need for a good zoo game is still here and Planet Zoo can build on that and be successful.

 

[NZFanatic]

Well I will say this from what I’m hearing YouTubers and the people who are playing this game are saying we need new dlc at the moment. I played zt2 from 2006-2018 and I’m sorry I just don’t see it.

You don't see it because it's not at all comparable.

Zoo Tycoon didn't have DLC. It had expansion packs. These expansion packs added not just new animals and set pieces, but entirely new gameplay (safari rides, marine parks, extinct animals with fossil collecting and minigames, elevated walkways, all that kind of thing), and because they were spaced so far apart the new animals that arrived were always fresh and new and in huge quantities (20 per expansion plus new gameplay, compared to four per DLC with some extra scenery).

I don't want PZ to do big expansions. I prefer the smaller DLC packs. I think adding new gameplay features will be what eventually brings new life to the game.

 

[paul78]

I think I’m fine with the small dlc packs also. I’d rather have something to look forward to then two big expansions and your done.

 

[paul78]

@Swjosdotschka I too would like more distinct personality and interactions and to be honest it should be doable. I think if frontier hears enough response they’ll see what they can do. I do know this tho (not accusing you btw) getting mad about it is not the answer. It took 15 yrs to get a successor to zt2 and if this game bombs or frontier gets sick of it and gives up on this who knows when will get another. I do also know this tho in a game with as much ai as pz has you probably have to pick your own battles. This game has to play for a wide variety of specs, offer content, and try to please most members without sacrificing playability. No zoo game at least in these days with current pc setups will never be able to fully mimic real life. So for example if you got fifty flamingos and expect to see group interactions like in real life I think people are simply expecting too much. Heck I’m just having fun with the game for what it is I mean frontier didn’t have to make a zoo game then where would we all be? My message to frontier is simple your doing a good job despite some people saying otherwise and if at all possible could you investigate the interactions and behaviors for us and maybe improve some of possible? Chante and Bo have always been very helpful and I’m sure if their aware of it they’ll see what they can come up with.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Well, honestly, I think Flamingos are not a good example when it comes to group activity They aren't really individual in real life ether. For Flamingos though, especially in large groups, adding 5 color shades would already make a huuuuge difference when it comes to realism.
And of course we can never mimic real life and no one is asking for that. But if you take a look at the Sims, even the worst installments of the game, you see that it's totally doable to add more social life and interaction between species, without killing a decent computer. It really doesn't need much. At the end, in every pc game interactions controlled by the computer are more or less loops. It is the variation in this loops and the numbre of different loops that makes you notice less and let pixels feel more life like.

 

[Mkau]

@Swjosdotschka I too would like more distinct personality and interactions and to be honest it should be doable. I think if frontier hears enough response they’ll see what they can do. I do know this tho (not accusing you btw) getting mad about it is not the answer. It took 15 yrs to get a successor to zt2 and if this game bombs or frontier gets sick of it and gives up on this who knows when will get another. I do also know this tho in a game with as much ai as pz has you probably have to pick your own battles. This game has to play for a wide variety of specs, offer content, and try to please most members without sacrificing playability. No zoo game at least in these days with current pc setups will never be able to fully mimic real life. So for example if you got fifty flamingos and expect to see group interactions like in real life I think people are simply expecting too much. Heck I’m just having fun with the game for what it is I mean frontier didn’t have to make a zoo game then where would we all be? My message to frontier is simple your doing a good job despite some people saying otherwise and if at all possible could you investigate the interactions and behaviors for us and maybe improve some of possible? Chante and Bo have always been very helpful and I’m sure if their aware of it they’ll see what they can come up with.

First of regarding the flamingo picture you posted:
The flamingos in the first picture have 3 colour variants,which already makes them feel more alive/more immersive representing a flamboyance with different shades,thus somewhat unique and more pleasant to look at.The flamingo picture from PZ shows that all flamingos look the same and are literally clones - regarding the visual aspect,because we can't see the stats.

Then still I seriously don't know how this thread slowly went into the direction of a debate about the comparison of Planet Zoo and ZT2.Nobody -neither the OP nor the other first posts - were comparing the two games.It doesn't really matter what ZT2 had or didn't have - we are talking about what Planet Zoo needs,what opinions people have regarding the whole animal aspects and how Planet Zoo can improve the aspect of having the biggest focus on the animals and being a top zoo simulation instead of only a top creative sandbox builder game.
Most things are rather easy to do (but still take time of course) e.g. colour/coat variants,increase the frequency and RNG of interactions etc.,change to group sizes reflecting the actual habitat size fo example etc.
Also nobody was being ungrateful or mad in this thread or demanding anything - this are just opinions and suggestions after all and it's up to Frontier to decide.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Also nobody was being ungrateful or mad in this thread or demanding anything - this are just opinions and suggestions after all and it's up to Frontier to decide.

This. And really, if we would think Frontier does not do a good job or if we were mad, we would just move on. I'm pretty sure everyone who takes the time to contribute to this thread, even with criticism, just wants to support the game and the devs. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the forums in the first place, spending their time commenting. And I myself wouldn't spend that much time here if I hadn't expierienced already that Frontier reacts incredibly well to feedback and listens A LOT to their player base.

(However, to be honest, it's a little bit too quiet lately.)

 

[paul78]

I agree way to quiet lately. Your definitely right about that my friend. I think communication is key here. I do know there was talk of variants for PZ and that also went quiet. Although they did say it would take time. I do have a feeling we should here something soon tho on a bigger update or content. I’ve been wrong before so it’s just a feeling.

 

[paul78]

Two amazing things frontier did do with this game is one the animal sizes. It’s awesome to have a male elephant with the 100% size gene. And two the fighting animations. The Komodo dragons have some very amazing animations for that. And I guess three and and the most overlooked sometimes the climbing animations. This is by no means a simple task.

 

[Dezessete]

Let them interact with the ground and water in a way that makes sense. Why are my ostriches constantly swimming? I'm aware that they are able to, but mine seem to have been raised by a duck. Why is no animal digging holes in the ground? Why are they not taking mud baths next to a pond?

This! I don't really understand why the mud bath needs to be a seperated enrichment item. Why can't animals just wallow in the dirt or the sand that you paintet with the terrain tools. Sand bathing isn't even a thing in the game, as far as I know.

 

[Firestar97]

This! I don't really understand why the mud bath needs to be a seperated enrichment item. Why can't animals just wallow in the dirt or the sand that you paintet with the terrain tools. Sand bathing isn't even a thing in the game, as far as I know.

I think I saw a Peacock once do this in the Game

 

[Dezessete]

I think I saw a Peacock once do this in the Game

Really? Was it specifically because you had sand in the habitat or was it just an animation that it does no matter on which terrain it is?

 

[Firestar97]

Really? Was it specifically because you had sand in the habitat or was it just an animation that it does no matter on which terrain it is?

I only saw it once and the Bird was on Sand at the Moment. I never saw it in my other Zoos. I think I should add some Sand to the Peafowl-Enclosure of my Main-Zoo
Edit : just noticed there is already Sand in the Enclosure, so I just need to wait

 

[Lea_G]

I have seen a peafowl bathe in the sand as well, I don't remember if it was on sand or soil or what terrain though. But they do it, just as elephants blow up sand with their trunks. The behaviour/interaction thing probably is the one thing I agree most with Swjosdotschka here, it would be cool if we saw these cute animations (which exist!) a lot more often and with some more variety. I certainly wouldn't mind more individual behaviour and traits.

On the other hand, for me, the animals still are the stars of the game, and I like watching them. I also spend a lot of time building, but everything I do is centered around the animals. My motivation to create different layouts or completely different zoos wouldn't be there without them. And there are so many things I love thinking about, like which ones could share a habitat, which ones could have habitats next to each other, how can I make their habitats beautiful and natural and how can I incorporate the guests - options are endless for me. I also think a lot about the animals thanks to the management system, e.g. what kind of animal I have to buy in order to continue breeding with my offspring, trying to always keep the rating high and so on.

I share all your hopes for the game, since I really want to support it - I'm excited for next DLCs and new encouragement to play. But even without it, I think the game can keep me engaged for a long time, and not only because of the endless building possibilities. Because everything (in my way of playing) is still referring to the animals. Maybe I'm different because I never liked ZT2 or any of the newer games. Only the original Zoo Tycoon with the 2D pixel graphics. So I'm still blown away by the detail of the animals in PZ and I still think the animals are beautifully made. And I clearly see how much Frontier wants to improve and fix the flaws which the game (quite naturally) has. And for the youtubers, I think it's normal that the hype goes down after a while, isn't it? I played endless hours around christmas, and I don't like the game any less, but I have to continue my everyday life. But the fact that I'm playing less doesn't indicate at all that I got bored with Planet Zoo.

I’ll continue to buy content for the game. I’m all in on this game. I imagine for behaviors and who not that could be something that comes later down the road as the games obviously going to add more. I think there’s a general lack of patience at the moment with frontier. I think support and kindness go along way and people have to let these guys do their jobs and see how it looks a year from now. This is quite a advanced game in a lot of ways and I know I couldn’t do better.

I sign this completely.

 

[Dezessete]

I have seen a peafowl bathe in the sand as well, I don't remember if it was on sand or soil or what terrain though. But they do it, just as elephants blow up sand with their trunks.

Then I take my previous statement gladly back.

 

[NZFanatic]

I get the feeling that some players are worried that if there's a lot of negative feedback then Frontier will give up on the game. It does not work that way.

While I'm sure it can be frustrating for the devs and community managers to see so much negative feedback, I'm sure they also understand that a core concept of running a business is negative feedback is always more prevalent than positive feedback. This is simply because the positive aspects of any product, whether it's this game, or a toaster, or a pair of shoes, are a given. People buy it with the expectation that it's going to be something they want, so typically people don't offer as much positive feedback. However, people typically share negative feedback because they want something fixed. You don't want something fixed if the product is working the way you wanted it, so there's not as much drive to offer feedback at all.

Every salesperson or product rep knows this (and in the end, the community managers are a form of product rep), so I don't think anyone needs to panic. If the community is offering negative feedback, then all that tells them is "this is a problem that needs fixing if we're going to keep making money on this product". Product recall, i.e. the cacellation of a product (like a game) only occurs if there are major issues that make it unusable to the consumer or unsafe to supply. The devs aren't going to throw their toys out of the cot and say "well I'm not doing it now".

We've already seen that they respond to feedback. Obviously providing positive feedback is a net positive in itself, because it doesn't hurt anyone and it offers encouragement, but negative feedback is more important, even if it seems inane, because that is what tells the producers how their product is tracking and how it can be improved (and keep in mind, every update is a new version of the game - we're almost lucky the updates are free, as with most products the best you can usually do is return the version you didn't like, and get the credit applied to the new version you actually want while paying the difference, since every update adds value to the base).

The tl;dr version is basically; for every one person that passes on a positive review, ten people will pass on a negative review. Alternatively, for every one person a consumer tells of a positive experience, they will also tell ten people of a negative experience. It's not an exact statistic, but it's a common allegory in business that everyone knows about so the last thing anyone here need concern themselves over is whether Frontier is going to quite Planet Zoo because there are (usually small) things they need to fix or update.

 

[Adarra]

As to the OP's post: I completely agree. I played Planet Zoo almost religiously the first few months and now? I haven't even started up the game for more than a month. For me it strikes a chord to see you describe how people essentially put a lot of time in designing stuff (be it habitats and/or buildings) and then 'lose interest' the moment the buildings are placed/the habitats are occupied. There's so many 'other stuff' going on besides having to care for your animals that at times I feel like I'm playing a management simulator instead of a zoo simulator. I can't for the life of me remember Zoo Tycoon having that much stuff going on that you had to take care of manually all the time. I just wish there was a way to automate certain processes or have my keepers at least act like real keepers without forcing me to have to deal with alpha fighting, dirty habitats, hungry/thirsty animals, etc.

I'd love to see animals be more meaningful than they are now. Have more interactions with their keepers/vets, with guests (being curious, coming to the glass, trying to 'make contact') and with their environment. Have them play in the water instead of just swimming, have them be able to interact with trees more (clawing, breaking branches) or see them hide in bushes (that actually ACT like bushes instead of 'flat 3d objects an animal can just walk through), see them lounging on stones, sleep in different poses (standing, sitting against a tree, on their back) and those are just a few improvements I've though of. Make the guests be less important than the animals instead of us having to focus on keeping them happy all the time.