The Timescale for 'Walking Around Your Spacecraft & Landing on Planets' Was 2-3 Years

[VR Golgot]

Really? "We're inserting another season but we can't take money for that, its not on the roadmap!! Money only comes from the roadmap!!" Unlikely.

If you look at some of the reasoning behind their business model, you can see why they might stick with it:

There has also been some discussion about pricing; if you buy the game as soon as it comes out, we expect it to cost $60/€50/£40 for your first season, then $45/€37.5/£30 for each subsequent season, including all expansions, ships, vehicles, and features through the season in that price, with just vanity items and clothing etc sold on top of that. It is much less than other multiplayer annually-updated AAA games, and works better than subscriptions, paying for each expansion separately, because these would be more expensive overall, and would not keep the player base together in the same way. The season model also enables us to discount the original game over time, to bring more players to the world. What we are doing is unique in having forwards and backwards compatibility, and our model enables us to do that while moving the game forwards in terms of hardware spec, and keeping the central servers running. I am strongly against pay-to-win by charging for ships or in-game money, so this seems to be a good solution.

Did Beyond merit a £40 price tag? Hell no. Did it slot into the apparent model of enticing people to the latest DLC, but retaining only one main divide: Between Core & latest DLC holder? Nope.

Are the above ideals that they're pursuing an intriguing way to keep a game in development, without becoming P2W. I think so

 

[VR Golgot]

There hasn't been a second dlc though, has there?

Nah, that's the point. I'm just poking the entrails of what's gone before, and curtain-raising Winter 2020 somewhat

Thread title:
The Timescale for 'Walking Around Your Spacecraft & Landing on Planets' Was 2-3 Years

The approximation is pretty clear from the '2-3 years' no? The fuzziness seems pretty evident to me.

But those in doubt can always read the post, where it's made crystal. You should try it

 

[Good Whiskey]

There is simply nothing neat and tidy about Elite's growth as a game. Most mmos that follow the time-honored tradition of releasing carefully packaged expansions don't serve as a model, because Elite relies exclusively on adding new features as it gets older; it isn't as easy as adding a new land with a new story and associated quests to go along with a new core gameplay feature. That said, Frontier painted themselves into this corner by planning to expand Elite in extremely ambitious ways that don't leverage incremental increases in total content.

 

[babelfisch]

That aside, and on a personal thought, I am of the opinion that things didn't go as planned for Elite.

It could definitely be better if no mistakes would've been made. However, mistakes happen everywhere, all the time. Just ask Bob Ross...

On the other hand the game is still being actively developed and remains successful 6 years after release, so I'd say it pretty much did go as planned in that regard.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

It could definitely be better if no mistakes would've been made. However, mistakes happen everywhere, all the time. Just ask Bob Ross...

On the other hand the game is still being actively developed and remains successful 6 years after release, so I'd say it pretty much did go as planned in that regard.

I wouldn't say it was necessarily mistakes as such. Things just might not have worked out as planned. To say either way though, we would have to know Frontier's original roadmap, which is something we don't have. Although the quotes at the start of this thread might give some insight into that.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

It's amazing how deep people will dig and stretch a few words in what they perceive as a full legal document with all the subtext to confirm whatever it is they want it to.

Not really sure what you are taking issue with. OP seemed to raise a somewhat interesting point that they originally intended DLCs to take about 2-3 years. No real salt until your post.

The approximation is pretty clear from the '2-3 years' no? The fuzziness seems pretty evident to me.

I agree, the fuzziness in inherent. I will say that the OP does seem to highlight the fact that PDLC 1 would be planetary landings, and PDLC 2 would be legs-related

If anything, this is more fuel for my theory that Q4 2020 update is legs.

 

[VR Golgot]

Just as an addendum to the OP:

I'm not suggesting they were aiming to get all the proposed Legs gameplay done inside 3 years.

At the time they had the Legs PDLCs split into two separate DLCs. IE:

• Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
• Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports

And going by old LEP newsletters, walking around inside ships looked like a good candidate for the first release of a Seasonal deployment. IE:

Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.

Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.

So possibly this is what was floating around Brabes' mind at the time. Plandings out within a year after launch. That the Horizons run would complete to something close to an annual cycle. Then the first offering of a Legs Season would arrive as the next PDLC.

Certainly a feasible plan on the face of it. But also one where you could see that challenges might have accrued...

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I think ED has always been a victim of FDs growth and restructuring- pre KS FD and post KS FD are (or seem to me) very different. ED seemed to wobble while FD itself surged. I suppose only looking at the financial reports of that era would tell.

This is the most interesting point raised so far IMO. I currently work at a company that has grown rapidly (~60 employees to over 200 in the past 4 years). That type of expansion means a lot of growing pains in terms of things getting lost in the shuffle, and time spent on managing people vs time spent solely on developing/creating

 

[Ezren]

The approximation is pretty clear from the '2-3 years' no? The fuzziness seems pretty evident to me.

But those in doubt can always read the post, where it's made crystal. You should try it

Except that giving yourself wiggle room by including "approx" once is meaningless when you continue to talk like that timeframe was specifically promised. Removing the "approx" wouldn't change anything about your posts. It's just padding to soften the edges, but ultimately meaningless.

 

[babelfisch]

I wouldn't say it was necessarily mistakes as such. Things just might not have worked out as planned. To say either way though, we would have to know Frontier's original roadmap, which is something we don't have. Although the quotes at the start of this thread might give some insight into that.

Personally I believe Beyond wasn't planned originally. But that's just guessing. Neither was the delay in Horizons (obviously...). Some stuff probably turned out to be more complicated than imagined. I'd say Beyond was no mistake because it addressed some important issues. If they made mistakes it's that Horizons had too many announced features, but that's just my opinion.

 

[pippo]

I think Frontier underestimated the Multiplayer/PvP aspect of the game, and the crowd coming along with it.

Had Elite Dangerous been a single player game, we would have had those features within the time frame. But instead we've had countless balance passes for ships and weapons, later with engineering and power play while some folks would still like to see more balance passes (not talking about bug fixes here).

 

[[PS5] sound-fx]

My very simple overview. I think the timescale for a while now may have resorted to, when do next generation consoles arrive and what can we do with them.

 

[Triptych]

You folks need to realize that Frontier is a business. Promises or eluding to timescales from what DB said two or three years ago did not take into account what Frontier's future acquisitions of new IP's or future business expenses would be.

So business reason make it ok to be unreliable? I don't think so......

 

[Good Whiskey]

So business reason make it ok to be unreliable?

Well, if Frontier's business model involves creating elaborate development plans for a flagship title and then abandoning them because a new acquisition strong-armed them into doing so, then this is a savagely poorly-run company.

 

[VR Golgot]

when you continue to talk like that timeframe was specifically promised.

Um, I don't. At any point. This is the third time you've repeated this comprehension fail of yours.

I suggest it was the rough time frame that they were looking at. Because that's what Braben says. I don't suggest it's a promise to players. I don't state it's a concrete roadmap. I quote Braben, and note some other facts from the time that fall in line with what he said.

And then I note that we're now at double that rough timeframe, and that that suggests the rough plan got roughed up. And speculate about why.

I honestly have no idea why this is triggering you to the extent that it is. But carry on tilting at windmills if it keeps you happy

 

[VR Golgot]

You folks need to realize that Frontier is a business. Promises or eluding to timescales from what DB said two or three years ago did not take into account what Frontier's future acquisitions of new IP's or future business expenses would be. A week or so ago, Frontier just announced the new acquisition of Formula 1 racing IP and license. As a result, Frontier now has to spend money and developer resources on this to meet the anticipated 2022 released dates for their new product line. This will in turn pull development resources away from current product offerings, as Frontier will want to use the folks with the most experience in all areas of software development, marketing, advertising and cloud server assets on this new line of product offerings. Acquiring the IP rights for any product line is a corporate expenditure, as is development funding and payroll for any new product line and represents an investment of capital now for which a return on investment in the future will be expected.

The bottom line is that Elite is six years old now and has given Frontier a handsom return on their investment. Frontier will now reinvest in this newly aquired IP and license, pulling both resources and development assets from their current gaming portfolio. Although DB had planned for those enhancements to Elite two or three years ago, Frontier may have to forgo the planned feature updates to Elite in favor of development expertise on new IP acquisitions to meet future release dates. It is not uncommon to scale back project expectations and resources originally planned for older projects to be used on currently acquired future projects.

They planned years in advance to scale up to having 3 new titles in development for FY2020.

It would appear that ED's overall staffing has not been drawn off significantly to other titles in the process, and actually stands out as the most resourced title:

According to Liberum's report last November, FDev's dev breakdown (total staff 500+) is as follows:

FDEV current developers 407
Liberum assumption headcount breakdown

• Elite Dangerous 120
• Planet Coaster 40
• JWE 40
• Planet Zoo 45
• Major licenced IP 60
• Total developers working on announced games 305
• Implied developers working on future games 102

Note that the above information was from before this official F1 licence announcement, so the "Major licenced IP" referenced in that table is a different game franchise:

+

• If FDev's claim of ~100 dedicated devs is correct, as the community visit seems to confirm nicely.
• And we assume of the 500+ staffing there are approx ~400 devs (I used CIG as a rough comparison here - IE 500+ staff, 410 devs)
• With 4 existing properties being maintained (ED, PC, JWE, PZ)
• And 3 more in in-house production

My amateur conclusions from that are:

• ED has roughly 25% of their total dev count on it, despite being only '14%' of their portfolio (1 of 7).
• It's got strong support for a maintained, existing, title. Likely stronger than the other published titles. (As if they all had ~100 devs allocated, that would be almost the entire dev team used up . Plus we know that JWE, for example, scaled up to 75-100 staff for launch, but was then set to scale back down post-launch.)

So as much as that would seem to be a reasonable supposition, it also seems to be wrong

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

when you continue to talk like that timeframe was specifically promised.

You are the only one banging on about this

 

[i0]

Dude these people don't want to hear about no facts... they have dug themselves in so deep into their fantasy that they can't except any part of reality...
I get the feeling some of these folks... if this game came on dvd they would have snapped it in half in a rage.

You it the nail spot on... Business! Full stop!

Not one post that I have read, and I have read a good many, has stated any willingness to fork over more cash to help get something going in the direction they want.

Not go fund me campaigns to have each player donate 2 US dollars to a pool that would help offset the cost of getting features that they are wanting...
all this doom and gloom.

Fair question here:

Would you put your money were your criticism is?

Would any of you Burn Elite to the ground folks be willing to pay a fair cost for not only DLC but extra money to support the thing you want?
Or are you just looking for consensus from other doom and gloom folks?

Talk is cheap.. action takes effort... development takes time.

Again this is not meant to be confrontational... if fact its to be more humorous than anything... so what write you?

You folks need to realize that Frontier is a business. Promises or eluding to timescales from what DB said two or three years ago did not take into account what Frontier's future acquisitions of new IP's or future business expenses would be. A week or so ago, Frontier just announced the new acquisition of Formula 1 racing IP and license. As a result, Frontier now has to spend money and developer resources on this to meet the anticipated 2022 released dates for their new product line. This will in turn pull development resources away from current product offerings, as Frontier will want to use the folks with the most experience in all areas of software development, marketing, advertising and cloud server assets on this new line of product offerings. Acquiring the IP rights for any product line is a corporate expenditure, as is development funding and payroll for any new product line and represents an investment of capital now for which a return on investment in the future will be expected.

The bottom line is that Elite is six years old now and has given Frontier a handsom return on their investment. Frontier will now reinvest in this newly aquired IP and license, pulling both resources and development assets from their current gaming portfolio. Although DB had planned for those enhancements to Elite two or three years ago, Frontier may have to forgo the planned feature updates to Elite in favor of development expertise on new IP acquisitions to meet future release dates. It is not uncommon to scale back project expectations and resources originally planned for older projects to be used on currently acquired future projects.

 

[VR Golgot]

Would any of you Burn Elite to the ground folks be willing to pay a far cost for not only DLC but extra money to support the thing you want?
Or are you just looking for consensus from other doom and gloom folks?

Which 'Burn Elite to the ground' folks? They don't seem to be here yet. I'm sure they'll be along later

PS, the closest to them is probably the guy you're agreeing with, who thinks the ED is bleeding out staffing

 

[i0]

That should be fair cost...

Which 'Burn Elite to the ground' folks? They don't seem to be here yet. I'm sure they'll be along later

PS, the closest to them is probably the guy you're agreeing with, who thinks the ED is bleeding out staffing