General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Turns out partisan propaganda might potentially have some legal drawbacks when it gets people killed. Oops. Prepare for years of finger-pointing and blame-shifting between corps and governments.

Fox News Is Preparing to Be Sued Over Coronavirus Misinformation

Polls show that Trish Regan, Sean Hannity, and others successfully bamboozled viewers about coronavirus. Now, Fox is reportedly lawyering up for a potential legal backlash.

www.vanityfair.com

They have actually already been sued over this matter.
It seems a difficult case to prove in court, though.

 

[Patrick_68000]

It does attack everyone, but statistically it's the old and/or ill that die. I places where healthcare is practically non existent and antibiotics are not available, they may not even notice a few extra pneumonia deaths. The sad truth is that many people live with this risk level, every day of their life.

If the Covid seriously attacks Africa, it would be interesting to know the "normal" number of deaths before the Covid and during to compare.

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[Patrick_68000]

Exactly. Beyond this crisis I wouldn't call myself a particular fan of Boris Johnson, but it is too easy to put all the blame on him. He did listen to expert input (although, in hindsight, maybe the wrong experts) and he did change his mind when confronted with new predictions and information. He then instituted measures that go against his central ideology of 'no big government, no taking away individual freedom'.

Could they reasonably have been expected to act sooner? Maybe, yes. Was it a trivially easy decision that anyone else would have easily done perfectly? No. Should all decision making be analyzed after the crisis is over so we can improve our readiness for the next virus? Absolutely. Is it okay to point & laugh at a man in critical care? Not so much...

I always liked Boris Johnson.

He is a subtle and very intelligent man. He is the man of Brexit, of the independence and courage.

I don't blame him, especially since I don't live in the UK.

I just point out that he could avoid making the buffoon, like Trump and Bolsonaro, the two morons who pretend to be Superman, and stronger than the climate and the viruses.

I wish our friend Boris the most speedy and complete recovery, of course.

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[Morbad]

At the age of 55, the British Prime Minister did not hesitate at the beginning of March, when the pandemic was already raging, to taunt the virus by claiming to continue to "shake hands with everyone, even the sick".

And that's the irony, more so than his policies. Even after a belated acknowledgement of the issue, he failed to set a good example.

The sad truth is that many people live with this risk level, every day of their life.

COVID-19 should be a reminder to not take the relative rarity of communicable disease in the modern developed world overly for granted...just a little taste of how it is in the rest of the world, how it was everywhere until relatively recently, and a reminder that it could be a lot worse if we continue to ignore problems until they are unavoidable.

At the rate we're going, COVID-19 isn't even going to look like a speed bump compared to what happens when antibiotics start to become broadly ineffective.

If the Covid seriously attacks Africa, it would be interesting to know the "normal" number of deaths before the Covid and during to compare.

Crude death rate estimates are readily available, and while they can't account for everything or everyone, they should be precise enough to see if COVID-19 was statistically significant or not, once this pandemic has passed.

 

[jasonbarron]

And that's the irony, more so than his policies. Even after a belated acknowledgement of the issue, he failed to set a good example.



COVID-19 should be a reminder to not take the relative rarity of communicable disease in the modern developed world overly for granted...just a little taste of how it is in the rest of the world, how it was everywhere until relatively recently, and a reminder that it could be a lot worse if we continue to ignore problems until they are unavoidable.

At the rate we're going, COVID-19 isn't even going to look like a speed bump compared to what happens when antibiotics start to become broadly ineffective.



Crude death rate estimates are readily available, and while they can't account for everything or everyone, they should be precise enough to see if COVID-19 was statistically significant or not, once this pandemic has passed.

Advocates for an increase in embracing the pharmaceutical industry and pumping our bodies full of chemicals both good and not necessarily so good while in the same post recognizes that soon antibiotics will no longer be effective...fails to see the irony.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

.
8 deaths.
106 cases.
1 new case today.

The sample size is small but the CFR is terrible.

Contrast this model with the US where the opposite holds: a well developed health care system holds the CFR down, but political failure and public health inaction in time lets it spread.

At 6 deaths/million we are doing OK with mortality at this stage of the game, but early days. Our case count is dropping per day. ( that can change, let us be cautious)


386,000 cases
12000 deaths
19,000 new cases today
Larger numbers from a much larger population.

The CFR is good.
And at 37/million pop it is still one of the best mortality rates in the world.
Their case count is going up overall, but areas are showing declines. It is hopeful.

If only we had that service, and they had our leadership, both places would be better off. Arguably, we have much more to offer in that exchange, though.

Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan all have good profiles. South Korea too. Germany has very good fatality rates.

 

[Patrick_68000]

607 dead in hospital in 24 hours + 820 dead in retirement homes in 24 hours also.

1427 Covid 19 deaths in France in 24 hours.

Since March 1, 10,328 dead in France.

And how many deaths at home ?

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[AkenBosch]

Containment measures (read: vaccines) have little to do with antibiotics, that have been largely overused in recent decades: also, antibiotics treat bacteriums, not viruses. There's actually no irony to be found in that.

 

[jasonbarron]

Containment measures (read: vaccines) have little to do with antibiotics, that have been largely overused in recent decades: also, antibiotics treat bacteriums, not viruses. There's actually no irony to be found in that.

My post goes to the irony of a population and attitude that dramatically over relies on chemicals and pharmaceuticals as a crutch. Antibiotics will soon no longer be effective because of this mentality.

Edit: that was quite a trip you laid on me on the other day old friend. I've listened to my better angels and tried to move past it, hopefully you have to.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Containment measures (read: vaccines) have little to do with antibiotics, that have been largely overused in recent decades: also, antibiotics treat bacteriums, not viruses. There's actually no irony to be found in that.

The antibiotic problem isn't understated by Morbad though.

In the long run we would need to fix the underlying thymic failure older humans develop in order to upgrade our immunity. More antibiotic substances are not the solution.

 

[ZeroAi]

Current USA COVID-19 numbers according to Google:

Confirmed: 379,224
Recovered: 20,027
Deaths: 11,835

(I think the first two numbers are grossly under-reported.)

So while COVID-19 will exceed the 12K deaths from Swine Flu back in 2009, there's still some hope it will not be as bad as the Flu this year.

The bigger problem is definitely going to be the economic impact :-(

Unless some companies come forward to produce billions of cheep anti-body tests, most will likely have to go back to work and risk infection, or risk poverty and an economic depression (I and many of my friends in manufacturing continue to work - unlike restaurants and bars there's no social distancing issues in most facilities.)

Personally, even though I'm in my 50's and always suffered from asthma, I would rather risk Covid-19 on a daily basis than go broke - I just can't imagine losing everything I've worked so long and hard for (home, car, etc), and spending my elderly years in a homeless shelter.

That's just my personal decision, everyone may have to make their own when the time comes.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Personally, even though I'm in my 50's and always suffered from asthma, I would rather risk Covid-19 on a daily basis than go broke - I just can't imagine losing everything I've worked so long and hard for (home, car, etc), and spending my elderly years in a homeless shelter.

That's just my personal decision, everyone may have to make their own when the time comes.

It's absolutely tragic if that were the choice you have to make.

 

[ZeroAi]

It's absolutely tragic if that were the choice you have to make.

I truly appreciate the sentiment, but I think most people will make the same choice?

Now if I was in my late 60's it would be a completely different matter! But asthma aside, I'm healthy and I've been working for over 35 years straight and honestly can't image ever not working - I go stir crazy when the wife drags me on vacation each year.

 

[Han_Zen]

According to the prime minister, we are officially over the top. They estimate R at 0.7, at the moment.
New cases, hospitalized, ICU and Ventilator cases are all down.
Deaths still go steady at 5+ a day. I guess they lag a week or two on the curve. We have reached 89. That's about half of what the Swedes get a day, so I guess we have been lucky.
When I say lucky, I mean it. Many countries have implemented similar or stricter measures, and fared far worse. Low population and plenty of area seem to help a lot.

Some restrictions will be lifted on the 20th and the 27th. Lets hope the suppression tactic continues to work.

This is not the end of the story, but so far so good.

 

[jasonbarron]

Current USA COVID-19 numbers according to Google:

Confirmed: 379,224
Recovered: 20,027
Deaths: 11,835

(I think the first two numbers are grossly under-reported.)

So while COVID-19 will exceed the 12K deaths from Swine Flu back in 2009, there's still some hope it will not be as bad as the Flu this year.

The bigger problem is definitely going to be the economic impact :-(

Unless some companies come forward to produce billions of cheep anti-body tests, most will likely have to go back to work and risk infection, or risk poverty and an economic depression (I and many of my friends in manufacturing continue to work - unlike restaurants and bars there's no social distancing issues in most facilities.)

Personally, even though I'm in my 50's and always suffered from asthma, I would rather risk Covid-19 on a daily basis than go broke - I just can't imagine losing everything I've worked so long and hard for (home, car, etc), and spending my elderly years in a homeless shelter.

That's just my personal decision, everyone may have to make their own when the time comes.

I don't see how it's even remotely possible that those first two numbers are anywhere in the neighborhood of correct. I've come around to thinking this pandemic is being co-opted to create exactly the situation you are worried about regarding a depression and poverty. Just know that, even though you'll never hear this in the media, there are tens of millions of people who feel exactly as you and will risk death to go back to work. Personally, I work in a field that courts severe injury and/or death on a nearly daily basis in the first place, so the mindset of going back to work no matter what comes very naturally to me. I make allowances to the virus in order to make sure I don't spread it, but beyond that I make no concessions to it whatsoever. I'm working until this passes or I'm kicking up daisies, period. That's how I keep the wolves away from my family.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I truly appreciate the sentiment, but I think most people will make the same choice?

Now if I was in my late 60's it would be a completely different matter! But asthma aside, I'm healthy and I've been working for over 35 years straight and honestly can't image ever not working - I go stir crazy when the wife drags me on vacation each year.

Oh, no doubt. I mean when the choice is between 'homeless' and [almost anything else] it is painful but understandable to go for the latter. But it is heart-breaking that those would be your options. The US isn't a third-world country, its arguably the richest country on the planet (discarding some freaky oil states). If everyone stands together there should be a better option available.

 

[jasonbarron]

Dude, this IS the better option.

 

[AkenBosch]

My post goes to the irony of a population and attitude that dramatically over relies on chemicals and pharmaceuticals as a crutch. Antibiotics will soon no longer be effective because of this mentality.

Yep, that is exactly the problem. It will be a major problem one day. But look how well we tacked this one knowing full well what was com-oh....

I don't have anything to move past, not interested in the slightest in that forum pvp of you lot.

The antibiotic problem isn't understated by Morbad though.

And I didn't understate it either indeed.
That's scary, very scary stuff.

 

[jasonbarron]

I don't have anything to move past, not interested in the slightest in that forum pvp of you lot.

Brother, I wasn't talking about forum PvP.

 

[AkenBosch]

But it's just that.