Will, in Your wisdom, enlighten us? We humbly accept we know nothin', o' the wise one.
Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.
- Thread starter NisseNeutron
- Start date
I think Paul Smith III's answer was quite good. Care to engage that one?
I got ninja'ed with that one, but he didint write anything about technical issues wih pve open.
And apparently frillop has some broad knowledge about elite network engine.
As for post u are refering to - it was said multiple times, what is point of open etc. But it dont contain reason why addong extra mode is bad thing!
Believe me, it was said so many times in past few pages. Over and over. Despite me asking why it hurt to have pvp and pve modes next to each other. I mean in menu where u have modes.
Well...
Just in these past couple of messages, both Frillop and Paul seemed to have covered your question.
I'm not saying those answers are definite or true, just pointing out that your question which in your words you asked "over and over" wasn't ignored at all.
Yes please tell me more how implementation of damage model influence network code.With such an assertion, which compares ED to "a large number of mmos that have pve /pvp splits", I wouldn't even know where to start. And then it would be a long reading, which is usually skipped after the 3rd line anyway. As a start, I suggest you think about what a "brokered peer-to-peer" network means for an MMO of the scale of ED. And then filter out all MMOs that are either not really twitched-based or are divided into relatively small zones. Just a friendly hint before you embarrass yourself with comparisons to any of the currently popular MMOs.
U know there are PG and solo modes right now? There woulsnt be any additional advantage to current solo/pg. Just consolidated pg.
@EDIT: Additional thoguht: I think i was not clear on my first remark - obviously hangling damage is quite crucial as is shared among nodes/clients but in our case it does not mean anything as there is simply no damage handling since its pve. Or rather pvemode woulsnt have extra problems, when compared to current open
Last edited:
To me, fragments quoted by You, refers to fact that pve open would have its limitations. Never said that it would connect everyone. Ofc it will have tech limitations, just like current open and pg. I fail to see how it would be argument against having consolidated mode. Only reasoning i can thing of would be that u end up wih small amount of instanced players, but thats obviously not true as game manage to put in same instance multiple players.
You know that pg does not prevent you from being shot at, it's just a whitelist?
Also Solo players would want to have a word with you, they don't want to see anybody. What about the people who only want to play with there friends and not others? You excluded them also. So your proposal is no different than open-only proposals.
Who is going to administrate your open-PvE mode? It's not just turning of collisions to make the PvE mode from ganking. The salt in the forums will be greater than any "bad-ganker" or fleet carrier threat could generate.
Ive read that post earlier, but after seeing "armchair developers" attitude i thoguht u gonna laugh/ignore any arguments for it so just passed on that.I never claimed I'm an expert but back in the days were we had some hot disputing about OOPP, I've read a bit about that. I also wrote some posts about it, but all apparently too long to be understood by most of the players (according to the comments that clearly proved they have understood nothing), so I gave up. It's definitely not as trivial as it seem to exist in your head and also nothing that can be quickly explained in twitter format. I'm sorry if that sounds a bit pretentious, but some things can't be just simplified and still make sense.
I already told you I'm no expert and I'm not giving lectures. Google for it if you want to learn something.
The +1 was a misclick.
PG (Mobius is just that) only works because the group admin takes applications, needs to look out for notorious griefers to filter them out. But even then there is an open hole in Mobius that allows griefers to infiltrate this group. This already has happened.
Why do you ignore what I already have written?
Or read the lower part of my post #1730:
Also, what no one seems to take into account: An Open PvE server would require no friendly fire, otherwise it wouldn't be much more than just an 'official' Mobius version that still would have to be administered by someone, which in this case would have to be someone from FDev. They are certainly eager to offer such a service - on top of additional server costs. Brilliant idea.
On the other hand, for a server w/o friendly fire the 'carebear argument' would actually have some reason now. Because they only would benefit of wing combat without the potential risk of accidentally shooting each other. And that on top of the required changes to the combat code. Of course that's all quite trivial to our armchair developers...
So, if you want to go on with this conversation, just tell me what kind of Open PVE model do you have in mind: With or without friendly fire? Without knowing that we are just blowing out hot air.
Ive edited my post regaring damage model and network code, u may want read it.
U can un-like.
As i repliet to paul post - pvp fire off. I thought its obvious. But better be clear as crystal, lesson learned.
Id never dare to ask for removing solo. As consolidating i meant that quite few ppl would migrate to new mode. Im here to advocate for more liberty so it wouldnt be silly to take modes from ppl.
I see where we have misunderstanding. I think i do. When i was asking for pve open I automatically asssumed no pvp damage. So ots not just making official mobius. But also disabling damage. As being programmer (albeit no gamedev) I believe its muuuuuuuuuuuuuch simpler than single feature/fragment of fc.
So u know. No administration.
Last edited:
Open PvE would just turn off weapon and impact damage from hollow squares and triangles. Yes, there will be ways to grief other players still. There are always ways to grief other players. Open PvE would just reduce a lot of it. Reporting and blocking will still be there anyway, to handle the rest.
Other games have a variety of PVE PVP solutions. Split servers where one group of servers is full pvp, other servers are pve (pvp damage is off) (Star Wars the Old Republic is set up this way). The pve servers fill up first in that model. Some use partitioning, where certain instances are full pvp on, main instances are pvp off (Guild Wars 1&2 Use this). Some have a flagging / dueling mechanic (Elder Scrolls online has this plus pvp instances), where you invite others to fight. Some have hybrid servers where pvp is on for certain server hours (Conan Exiles has a server option like this).
I haven't been interdicted in more than a year in Open. There is quite a bit you can do in supercruise to identify potential threats, the squad they belong to, their posting behavior on the forums, whether or not they are wanted, looking at their ship modules to see if they are set up for snare, cripple and burst with Power Play modules dedicated to those functions. You can do defensive flying in supercuise, and if they are persistent, you can low wake stop, Block them, restart the game. It's an abuse of the Block function, but FDEV doesn't give you many options if you want to meet people that want to have a PVE experience.
If I want to fight, I leave crimes off and enjoy.
Have you played many other PVE PVP partitioned mmos?
So what is PvP damage? Weapon and impact only? There are so many other ways to do make somebody explode, the only thing it would change is the amount of salt generation per incident. Fdev did the math and if they think it's not worth to implement, then it's either to costly, time consuming, or both. They couldn't even hire a writer or 2 for galnet stories.
I'm surprised that you say something like that as a programmer. I'm always amazed how users can break or use software and/or it's features in a way never intended or though off. I'm saying that as a developer (happily no gamedev either). I learned if something looks easy, it will be a pain to do right.
But does any of them is mainly adverse gameplay like Elite? There is no common goal, not even a small one for the whole community to reach. All goals are individual or for groups and usually are interfering with goals of other players or groups. Also does any of them use P2P for connecting players, or needs to track at the speed as ED? I'm curious if there is something that has the same requirements.
Just have this:
We will never know what is happening behind frontier's doors. They invested in carriers.
You are exaggerating. Surely, bugs happens, thats why we have testers and betas and peer reviews and PROCESS. Also - here we have elite dangerous. In face of working game and recent update you are saying that disabling hit registering will be a problem? Come on. Hell, they can even use in-game mechanics.Just boost everyone player-toplayer damage modifier. I bet PvE and PvP have diffrent modifiers. Thats easiest way to balance PvE (boost/nerf NPCs) i can think of.
Oh come on. Here you have Big fat ship wit lot of inertia that gives you all time u need to fix lost packets.
Just look arena FPS games.
Here is first video I found from example arena fps game (can be much more intense)
Considering the near total lack of enforcement that Frontier has executed concerning combat logging and hacking, the amount of faith that some here have that they will vigilantly enforce PvE open in the face of exploiters is, well... astounding.
Last edited:
They came out and said open-pve is not going to happen for ED. So they did the math, or it would go against their vision for ED, or any other reason for them to not do it, pick your poison.
Not intensity, keeping track of positions, you know going 500+m/s and all. Did you ever watch PvP ring fights? Not much inertia there. There are already enough issues with shadow rams and desync.
I wouldn't call them bugs, they are unintended features
. I have yet to come across some software over a certain complexity which is bug free, even with all the testing and processes. It's just the nature of the beast.I don't think there is a difference between player damage and npc damage, for the game they are one and the same in regards to damage and c&p. I think that was also a deliberate decision by FDev as they wanted a player to be no different than an npc. At least that's what they said.
The only thing different between an npc and a player is the difficulty to escape the situation without an rebuy. Then I started out the security Anacondas blew my Sidewinder out of space as fast as any CMDR would, 2 hits and I'm looking at a rebuy. And all because I tickled them with my size 1 pulse lasers. But I payed and learned. If an npc or an CMDR blows up my ship doesn't matter, I see the same rebuy screen. Well I would be embarrassed to get blown up by an npc now.
Yes. Individual gameplay. Pursue your own personal story. It is the theme of those games. They offer cooperative events, and competitive pvp events.
Good point about p2p. They do use central servers, NOT p2p.
But that was 'only' combat logging, and hacking obviously doesn't happen in Elite.
Surely they will do better defending all the PvE players, right? Right?
According to a select few, Frontier has done a poor job of protecting PvEers from their own choices indeed!
Oh come on...
This thread is still going?
All those carebears should just grow a pair and play in open despite the PvP aspect.
If you don't wanna die, learn to evade or learn to fight back.
Stop expecting someone else to hold your damn hand for every single thing that gets in your way.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that Open isn't as dangerous as it used to be (if it ever really was...) since a good number of PvPers have moved on, as well as a good number of griefers/gankers or whatever you may call them.
This thread is still going?
All those carebears should just grow a pair and play in open despite the PvP aspect.
If you don't wanna die, learn to evade or learn to fight back.
Stop expecting someone else to hold your damn hand for every single thing that gets in your way.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that Open isn't as dangerous as it used to be (if it ever really was...) since a good number of PvPers have moved on, as well as a good number of griefers/gankers or whatever you may call them.
