Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

[LanceLord]

There aren't 2 million backers.

That was an upper estimate cap based on the number of accounts I've seen around the web to date. But even if it's half at 1M (which I suspect is closer to real number), then that's still $220 per backer. But it's most likely a significant number of the fan base will likely have exceeded that average in upgrading from their starter ships.

Regardless, that is still an affordable amount i.e. relative to gifting Zenimax FIVE years of DLC updates for playing ESO on their broken and buggy servers.

Or paying Bethesda $40 - $60 for bare bones, MVP base game Fallout 76. Where one time, rip off notorious marketing for the likes of Nuka Dark Rum, the infamous canvas bag debacle & $300+ Collector editions not considered). Besides those one time capital cost, paying Bethesda an additional $13/mo for their P2W Fallout 1st subscription. Just to access their even more broken and buggier private servers.

Paying CI a one time average $110 - $220 then waiting for game release (regardless of whether you're alpha testing the game or not in process) seems to be the CHEAPER and far more practical investment IMO

 

[ECity]

"Other games are worse" is not a defense of predatory and anti-consumer behavior.

 

[StuartGT]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg/come_on_ea/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg/_/fuyu9bm

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg/come_on_ea/fuyu9bm/

 

[Cotic]

Or paying Bethesda $40 - $60 for bare bones, MVP base game Fallout 76. Where one time, rip off notorious marketing for the likes of Nuka Dark Rum, the infamous canvas bag debacle & $300+ Collector editions not considered). Besides those one time capital cost, paying Bethesda an additional $13/mo for their P2W Fallout 1st subscription. Just to access their even more broken and buggier private servers.

And CIG's lack of delivery for the physical items in some of their kickstarter tiers that people paid for 7 years ago?

Paying CI a one time average $110 - $220 then waiting for game release (regardless of whether you're alpha testing the game or not in process) seems to be the CHEAPER and far more practical investment IMO

People that pay for these other games are paying as they become available. It's not some downpayment and they are not waiting years to get what they paid for.

I've seen this sort of comparison brought up before, notably by Joe Blobers, comparing the amount a World of Warcraft fan would have spent over 13 years of playing the game day in, day out to what some Star Citizen fans are dumping on preorder DLC years in advance. It is a most silly comparison.

 

[sovapid]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg/_/fuyu9bm

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/h9r8vg/come_on_ea/fuyu9bm/

CIG needs to sue over the possible name confusion.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

EDIT: Bongo stepped in... no ED talk!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm not talking about performance per se, just his experience as he described it. The 17 minute loading times, the delay in texture drawing in, the game music playing in fits and starts...that's all HDD issues and doesn't happen with an SSD regardless of crappy frame rates.

Decent...or acceptable... performance in SC is specifically RAM, CPU and SSD dependent...not GPU. I still remember what it was like loading from HDD, even though my particular Star Citizen drive at the time was a 2Tb Hybrid. Moving it over to a 2Tb m.2 SSD once I had got rid of that old Samsung hybrid kinda shocked me that I hadn't even tried up until then, it's not like I was short on SSD space or anything....I just didn't reckon SC had earned a place on my proper gaming SSD...

I remember the first time I booted SC up from the SSD and was surprised it loaded up in around a minute from clicking on the launcher...then I didn't have to wait for 5 minutes once in the game for the textures to draw in properly. A complete chalk and cheese experience...crappy frame rates happen in SC on any type of gaming rig, but that's not what Mr Jingles was describing.

My loading times during the recent clusterfarce...twice as long to load with some noticeable stuttering when moving about than pre 3.9.1 had, but I kinda expected it during the event. There also isn't any texture draw in and I'm running about as soon as it's loaded in. That's due to the SSD and not my kinda average gaming rig.

Wasn't exactly commenting on his video per se. He might very well have it installed on a regular drive. It was more about how not having it installed on a SSD is the cause of so many problems.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Seems to me akin to the crane loading in Snowrunner and a quick and fast example.
Part of the fun is planning what trailers are needed and how to load them.

Seems you are just surprise someone would prefer something different to how you would want to play....

I'm not exactly surprised. Some backers got all excited at the idea of having to load every crate manually when it was first discussed. I'm pretty sure they love the idea of it more than the reality though.

Same goes with many other things. I'm sure many love the idea of "Death of a Spaceman", but we will see how much they love that idea should CIG ever actually implement it.

 

[Arcondes]

CIG needs to sue over the possible name confusion.

I bet I bucket of popcorn CR see the Star Wars trailer and advises his „team“ SQ42 trailer has to look like this i want that Idris coming out of the Crusader clouds (cloudtech )

 

[Skizomeuh]

Every video game publishers, studios, movie producers, novelists, comics authors and mangakas and so on... should stop from releasing anything for at least 3 years if we want to have a chance to see SQ42 and SC to to come out before our Sun collapses.

 

[Mole HD]

"Other games are worse" is not a defense of predatory and anti-consumer behavior.

But nobody is trying to defend it....not as far as I can see.

 

[Tippis]

Every video game publishers, studios, movie producers, novelists, comics authors and mangakas and so on... should stop from releasing anything for at least 3 years if we want to have a chance to see SQ42 and SC to to come out before our Sun collapses.

But if they did that, Chris would have no more ideas for new features that will be made priority #1 to include and abandon a year later.

 

[StuartGT]

CIG needs to sue over the possible name confusion.

Disney Burns to CIG Ortwin Hutz: "have you met my lawyers?"

 

[Agony_Aunt]

 

[MTBFritz]

But nobody is trying to defend it....not as far as I can see.

Debatable.

If you list the issue at hand then start talking about other games who are equally bad or even worse and even sprinkle in stuff like "then its not so bad" then it very much is a justification for allowing or accepting such predatory or shady business practices. That others do it too isnt the question. Sometimes giving a different perspective helps. And when I cry about 60 bucks being a lot of money then showing me how much I dumped into other games 14bucks/month over 10 years certainly does that trick.

The amount of money oftentimes isnt the issue either but the return value for it. Other games having a similar investment prize do provide more in return and if its only a released game. But usually playtime and options. People have excessive expectations based on the prize, the development time, the total funding sum and of course all the glorious made-up reports about non-existing or unsupported gameplay. When you claim that your pre-alpha of choice already offers more content and entertainment then already released AAA games thats a really tall bar to pass. And the fact that only certain individuals with a rather unique combination of preferences and personailty quirks will endorse Star Citizen is a pretty plain answer for the amount of criticism SC receives.

Oh and its also great for salt miners ^^

 

[Asp Explorer]

But if they did that, Chris would have no more ideas for new features that will be made priority #1 to include and abandon a year later.

I don't know my dear Tippis - maybe Genuine Roberts will see the light and be inspired to level up Sandwurmie to Asteroidwurmie! The next stage in the lifecycle!

Never been done before!

 

[hairychris]

Can't speak for others, but had my eyes on the Star Citizen piece back in '13, when I was set to retire from the Army. For years, I'd wanted an online version of Wing Commander Privateer and an updated Wing Commander game, and that seemed to fit the bill, since the cat who produced both was in charge of the kick-starter. At the time, I put no money in to the project and just kept it in mind, thinking it would be cool if it came into being.

I played WC or WC2 (can't remember which) back at the time. Didn't like the flight model and the story was massively derivative but the cinematic approach was something very new. I found out about SC via ED as I'd also played the original on 8-bit back in the day (ZX Spectrum 48k posse!). SC seemed potentially interesting but I couldn't get round the 'macrotransaction' business model. For clarity I backed ED at beta, and bought the all DLC level at 100 quid which was about as much as you could throw in, and wasn't the pay-to-win model that SC promoted.

EDIT: By "as much as you could throw in" I mean as gameplay-only related, not including things like NPC naming and physical rewards. You could definitely go higher, but again none of these would affect your experience in-game. Ditto cosmetics. I don't particularly like the whole buying cosmetics for games with real money but ED's seem a bit more reasonable then most and other players don't seem to care what your ship looks like unlike Fortnite, etc.

What I have discovered about Chris over these years is he's a notorious micromanager, likely holding back progress by getting too far into the weeds and listening to the Good Idea Fairy ("Wouldn't it be cool if we added ...") - in effect becoming his own worst enemy. I've seen no evidence that he's a good manager or leader, and the haphazard development of CIG over time shows it in spades. Honestly believe he wants to see the vision of his game come to fruition, but don't believe he has the management skills necessary to keep out of his own way.

Enter Clive Calder. Chris made a deal with him, and Calder bought into the project. Unlike CR, Calder is a proven manager and accomplished investor, and he knows how to drive his investments to success, as evidenced by his billions. Once Chris made that deal, he more or less let the devil in the door, and Calder is expecting results. For that reason, I believe CIG is working fulll-speed on Squadron 42, which is what Calder backed, and that is why we are seeing so little movement on the PU proper. Chris announced to the world that Squadron 42 would go into beta within the next few months a while back, and my guess is that Calder is not letting that transform into merely lip service. Calder is bringing to the fight was was before lacking - purpose, direction, and motivation toward the achievement of a goal.

Yeah, the next year or so is going to be interesting. I assume that the Calders want results and at the moment all that CIG have to offer is technical debt. They haven't provided an actual retail product yet, and the traditional 1st day adopters have already put their money into the product. I have genuine curiosity as to where the market is that will provide CIG with profit outside the existing pool of users.

Firmly believe Star Citizen and Squadron 42 will be published, though unlikely to the extent of CR's vision ... even if only after CIG is bought out by a major publisher.

This seems to be the story of Roberts' business life cough Freelancer cough. I hope that a decent product does come out of the other end of this if only for the sake of the backers.

I doubt, however, that any external publisher will touch CIG's output with a barge-pole. Chris Roberts has burned a lot of bridges in his career... I can't see another Microsoft coming to the rescue by throwing him off the project after all the money is gone again cough Freelancer cough!

Even with the buggy and glitchy builds, the alpha builds can be fun and immersive as heck, and I believe what they've achieved will force a quantum leap in how future games are designed.

And that's a good thing.

Glad that you're enjoying it! From the outside I'm not sure it'd be worth 4 or 5 USD figure sums but maybe that's just me.

Hard disagree with the future development idea, though. I'd be unsurprised if SC kills the chances of any AAA-equivalent game from being crowdfunded in the future - too much money, not enough accountability.

 

[killminster]

Yeah, the next year or so is going to be interesting. I assume that the Calders want results and at the moment all that CIG have to offer is technical debt. They haven't provided an actual retail product yet, and the traditional 1st day adopters have already put their money into the product. I have genuine curiosity as to where the market is that will provide CIG with profit outside the existing pool of users.

By results, isn't it reasonable to assume that results for the Calders means money rather than a game?

I would have thought that they'd have made sure whatever money comes in (and it is still a lot) they get their cut first, then the lights are kept on and whatever is left over goes on "making the game".

 

[Skizomeuh]

By results, isn't it reasonable to assume that results for the Calders means money rather than a game?

I would have thought that they'd have made sure whatever money comes in (and it is still a lot) they get their cut first, then the lights are kept on and whatever is left over goes on "making the game".

My guess.

#ChrisLiveMatters #CaldersLivesMatter #SandisHandbagsMatter

 

[Tippis]

By results, isn't it reasonable to assume that results for the Calders means money rather than a game?

I would have thought that they'd have made sure whatever money comes in (and it is still a lot) they get their cut first, then the lights are kept on and whatever is left over goes on "making the game".

Quite. When (not if) Calders wants results, what will happen is a massive shift towards massive sales — whatever brings in the most money the quickest — so that the investors get what they're owed and CI¬G isn't shut down over a Tuesday lunch break. Whether that leaves CI¬G in a position to be able to continue creating art assets after that cash outflow is largely irrelevant, and they've amply demonstrated that they're not particularly capable of creating a game even with all the funds in the world so that outcome isn't high on the list either way.