Thank You FDEV!!!

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Frillop Freyraum said:
But his statement was basically: Both aspects (SP/MP) would most likely stand much better on their own. Which means much less ugly compromises. And that is something I can hardly deny. In any case, the game would have to be worked out much more thoroughly, without hiding behind its hybrid nature as a global excuse for any shortcomings. It is also the idea that all development resources could be put into one single aspect and thus - at least in theory - lead to a much better result.

I said in theory, because in that case the user base would be about half as large as it is now and - again in theory - the development team would also shrink. Ultimately, they have to be paid by something. That's why I said that without this compromise, our niche game would most likely have died long ago.
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But the whole concept of "It would be a better SP game if it was just an SP game" is silly. Taken to extreme, you could say that ED would be a much better Football Management game if there were fewer spaceships and more football management and it would be just as true as the SP/MP statement.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
B1rdy said:
We have had this discussion before. For you she sheer presence of a choice and option is (as it seems to me) good enough. Game design basics dictate a choice needs to have an impact otherwise, it can be perceived boring or even frustrating. An option means Devs have to account for all of them. Giving all an equal value is an immense effort or compromise. Example would be the support of input devices: If FDev supported only gamepads, the whole options menu would be a lot simpler and there would be not advantage for using relative mouse input.

I did not say you can't like it, I said it is a compromize for all players (even those, who don't realize necessarily).

Edit:
You are missing the point.
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If the game didn't support joystick I wouldn't be here, that's my pre-purchase reading again.

Frillop Freyraum said:
But his statement was basically: Both aspects (SP/MP) would most likely stand much better on their own. Which means much less ugly compromises. And that is something I can hardly deny. In any case, the game would have to be worked out much more thoroughly, without hiding behind its hybrid nature as a global excuse for any shortcomings. It is also the idea that all development resources could be put into one single aspect and thus - at least in theory - lead to a much better result.

I said in theory, because in that case the user base would be about half as large as it is now and - again in theory - the development team would also shrink. Ultimately, they have to be paid by something. That's why I said that without this compromise, our niche game would most likely have died long ago.
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Yep I get that, that's exactly what they were selling us though so the anyone overly concerned about it shouldn't have bought in 🤷‍♀️. I genuinely have no sympathy at all for people who buy games with features they dislike, I dislike 3rd person games so I opt out of buying them problem solved.

My take is that for the sake of inclusivity in one of my favourite genres that had been effectively dead for twenty years I was willing to put up with the MP aspects and the impact it would have on the SP aspects despite my personal preference being purely for SP. I read up on it and went into it with my eye's open.

It turns out I like the MP and SP aspects of the game and the two combined via a shared BGS makes for one the best games I ever played if not the best. I think it's an inspired bit of design, the game is all things to all people. It only falls down when people start resenting other peoples choices at the menu through not understanding how to work the BGS, which again I have no sympathy for at all.

The TLDR is choice is good, I'd expect more games to go this way in the future.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
I think Bob is a secret FD employee, sent here for the sole reason to aggravate the OP and anyone who thinks contrary to Bob.

Or that could just be rubbish. Disagreeing with someone isn't reason to go for the "it's all about you" angle - it didn't work in junior school, so unlikely to work here!?!
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Bottom Hat said:
I think Bob is a secret FD employee, sent here for the sole reason to aggravate the OP and anyone who thinks contrary to Bob.

Or that could just be rubbish. Disagreeing with someone isn't reason to go for the "it's all about you" angle - it didn't work in junior school, so unlikely to work here!?!
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DrewCarnegie said:
@Stigbob is David Braben and he's posting from Raxxla. FACT!

(I said 'FACT', so now nobody can argue. Internet rule #35. FACT!)
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I'm actually Chris Roberts here to deliberately sabotage the competition by posting sensible advice in a reasonable way about the importance of pre-purchase reading.
 

askavir

askavir
DrewCarnegie said:
But the whole concept of "It would be a better SP game if it was just an SP game" is silly. Taken to extreme, you could say that ED would be a much better Football Management game if there were fewer spaceships and more football management and it would be just as true as the SP/MP statement.
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Not exactly. Being a multiplayer game, you suddenly get a ton of constraints that you wouldn't have on a single-player only game.

You can't have stuff like for instance:

  • time dilation (due to shared universe)
  • difficulty / other adjustment sliders / player-tailored experience (due to shared universe)
  • many moving objects on screen (due to networking sync issues)
  • saves (due to persistent universe)
  • truly meaningful actions / choices that impact the game world (due to shared universe)
... and many other things.

For instance, X4 Foundations is pretty poor as a spaceship flying game or as a space exploration game, but in terms of gameplay depth and gameworld richness, is many miles ahead of ED. There's tons of stuff always going on, while on ED you can't even drop cargo unless is small amounts or it breaks networking.

Of course being multiplayer also has some advantages, for instance you can't have things like Distant Worlds on a single player game, but in pure gameplay / gameworld terms, being multiplayer is a big fat chunk of ballast.
 
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