Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Screemonster]

Honestly, with the right tactics - the kind Sir Ganksalot teaches, for example - and just enough engineering to keep your shields from absolutely collapsing in a strong breeze - it's not that hard to get away from a gank.

But most people fly directly away from us, allowing us to easily line up our shots and rams.

Without meaning to sound like a jerk, this is a skill-based videogame, and there are skills that anyone can master to give them the confidence to survive and thrive in Open.

Another thing I've found is that some people just aren't prepared for dealing with plain, simple, good old aggression.
I've sent people packing that strictly speaking should have been more than a match for me just by being horribly, relentlessly, aggressive. People don't seem to expect the little PvE build to boost directly at their face and empty their entire WEP capacitor at them, detarget them when they pop chaff, and keep hounding them. Inexperienced gankers/PvPers get caught off guard when their target fights back - one guy actually apologised in chat as he charged his drives without even firing a shot: I was in my shieldless DBS in Sol going to check out the voyager probes and tourist beacons when he pulled me, and was not ready for me to immediately turn around and unload my cytos in his face.

If nothing else, unless you're looking to gain distance for a low-wake, sticking as close to their engines as you can will make it a pain for them to shoot you while you wait for your FSD to cool down.

 

[Just Paul]

There is in nutshell reason why I strongle detest gankers. I treat game as RPG, they treat it as arena shooter. Yeah you could play RPG's in way where you kill everyone coming on your sights, but well that tends to lead serious consequences on your game experience. Mostly turning out whole Npc communities hostile towards you and seriously hampering your possibilities in game. And I think Elite should take that direction. So you take criminal playstyle, well thats fine and dandy, though that should lead to situation where you are denied services in systems with security ratings, perhaps anonymous access in low secs should be possible, or bribe officials mechanism for limited services. And murderhobo playstyle even in anarchies should lead to problems unless done in name of whatever is local ruling gang. Even criminals do not like maniacs, they are bad for business afterall.

Let player decisions have consequences, that would be a dream come true. But there will be an outcry why somebody can't be anymore allied with all the factions in 1 system.

And yes I truly think "arenashooter" is wrong way to play this game. There is CQC mode for that.

CQC is a gimmick at best. I mean no offense to the people who enjoy it.
Having something similar with no arcade upgrades, being able to use your own ships, chose your team, aso would be a much better way to do that.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Let player decisions have consequences, that would be a dream come true. But there will be an outcry why somebody can't be anymore allied with all the factions in 1 system.

In fact I would support players choosing superpower wide allegiance. No Imperial Dukes with Fed Rear Admiral ranks. With some caveats, namely removing system permit requirements on some systems. And also you should be able to be demoted in rank. Say you are Imperial duke and commit crimes against Empire, well sooner or later you can say good by for that rank and its privileges.

 

[DemiserofD]

Sure, but there is no distinction for many people between griefing and ganking. Any "surprise" player versus player combat is some form of griefing, in their mind.

And of course I understand and appreciate the distinction between (competitive) PVP and ganking as you've outlined here.

That's in large part due to a lack of structure in the game. For example, if there are defined areas where pvp is and is not possible, then getting attacked in a pvp-enabled area ceases being a surprise.

But we don't have that. Instead, we get pvp happening in high security systems where it really shouldn't be happening, and not happening in the low-sec or anarchy systems where it should be happening.

Of course, that's largely because there's no system to gather players together in this game, so there's no way for pirates to actually find players in low-sec systems, so the only way to actually engage in pvp in the first place is to go where players go, which is in high-sec systems.

I've said it before, but this game really needs better ways to gather players together for combat activities.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I'd be against hard limit of "pvp is not possible here", it is kind of system where you try to shoot with gun in someplae and it would not work. Better way is to make consequences of shooting in wrong place pretty odious for would be shooter.

 

[BL1P]

I'd be against hard limit of "pvp is not possible here", it is kind of system where you try to shoot with gun in someplae and it would not work. Better way is to make consequences of shooting in wrong place pretty odious for would be shooter.

Another good way would be if the Pilots Fed stopped rebuy coverage for persistent offenders.
So if your ship is destroyed you loose it, unless as shown below.
You could get rebuy coverage in anarchy systems from an Anarchy Faction or from the Anarchy PowerPlay aslong as you dont have pilots fed coverage. ( you cant have both)
And that would cover your rebuy if your ship gets destroyed in an Anarchy Government system only.
Loosing your ship in anything but an Anarchy Government system would mean loosing the ship.
A system that is classed as anarchy but has no government would not cover rebuy. (systems in the black)
To be fair though I would suggest that Anarchy Systems should loose rebuy coverage for players who dont have the Anarchy Faction or PP rebuy coverage.
And that that all coverage out in the black should stop.

Many more good and bad consequences for the offenders and none offenders could be added to the game based around that system.
A small example:-
Access to ships that non offenders cant get for the Anarchy rebuy holders. Though you loose access to Federal and Imperial ships and ranks.
Access to the Smugglers Guild market board. Though you loose access to the Normal Market board.
Access to the Anarchy mission board. Though you loose access to the Normal Mission board.
Access to the Anarchy PP modules. Though you loose access to and have removed all of the other PP modules and visa versa.

Anyway wont happen .... sadly.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

So much could be avoided if people put forth the slightest effort. Whether that means playing in another mode, or learning what high waking is.

What's it called when people complain about problems despite there being obvious, known solutions? Is there a word for that?

 

[VirtueXOI]

So much could be avoided if people put forth the slightest effort. Whether that means playing in another mode, or learning what high waking is.

What's it called when people complain about problems despite there being obvious, known solutions? Is there a word for that?

Problem is elsewhere my dear , problem is gank are not punished =>

There is in nutshell reason why I strongle detest gankers. I treat game as RPG, they treat it as arena shooter. Yeah you could play RPG's in way where you kill everyone coming on your sights, but well that tends to lead serious consequences on your game experience. Mostly turning out whole Npc communities hostile towards you and seriously hampering your possibilities in game. And I think Elite should take that direction. So you take criminal playstyle, well thats fine and dandy, though that should lead to situation where you are denied services in systems with security ratings, perhaps anonymous access in low secs should be possible, or bribe officials mechanism for limited services. And murderhobo playstyle even in anarchies should lead to problems unless done in name of whatever is local ruling gang. Even criminals do not like maniacs, they are bad for business afterall.

And yes I truly think "arenashooter" is wrong way to play this game. There is CQC mode for that.

=> is one of the best explanation.

Also what you lose when being ganked is time. Only time . the time you put in the game. And sometimes avoiding ganker is longer than being ganked so big no.

Alot of player complain / have complained about geing ganked for no reason , in position of weakness (deciat for example) . In this case the ganker win only ego / some domination satisfaction ect .

After that people comlpain about open being empty. Just try to imagine the numbers of player that would have stayed in open with ganker being less present / punished ect.

Now it's like that , no more discussing , ganker will stay what they are . Tbh some have real RP/ fun manner (sir o/ ) but most just seek the weak to fool boredom.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

The only people who have ever been extremely vocal about open being empty are either new people who don’t understand how big the galaxy is— and people who don’t actually play in Open.

If you happen to play open, and claim it’s a desolate wasteland, you’re either in a low traffic area, or intentionally misleading the rest of the playerbase.

I’ve been playing for over four years now. The game has been out for six. Yet here I am, still in open, with plenty of people to meet, fly with, or shoot at.

 

[Red Anders]

Uhh, if one player is in, let's say, a Krait with five fully g5-ed frag cannons with double shot & screening shell, and the other player is in a shieldless Type-6, I can tell you from experience that one player is going to the rebuy screen in about 20 seconds or less.

And it won't be the player in the Krait.

Most players, including gankers, would consider that a gank.

Indeed. Ganking was originally a term used to describe multiple players ganging up on an individual but that's in large part because in a lot of games that's the only way that truly overpowering force can be brought to bear on a player.

In this game it's not the case at all. I've had exactly two pvp encounters in the time I've played the game because I primarily play in solo (not because I'm scared of losing muh pixels or space bux or anything; just because I bought the game intending to treat it as a single player game) but despite that, I can guarantee that if I decided to log into open in my engineered FDL and ran into some poor noob trying to do the Road to Riches in a crap-tier T6 or something, unless he'd watched Rinzler's helpful 'how to not die in open' videos, or attended Sir Ganksalot's gank survival academy, I'd have him on toast with a facefull of frags, just because his thinking time would probably be all that I needed.

Equally, if I ran into someone who was a good PVP player I would high wake because the five years experience I have in the game means I know that no matter what I was flying, I'd be getting a trip to the rebuy screen myself if I hung around.

 

[ubermick]

Sure, but there is no distinction for many people between griefing and ganking. Any "surprise" player versus player combat is some form of griefing, in their mind.

And of course I understand and appreciate the distinction between (competitive) PVP and ganking as you've outlined here.

Late to the party here, and it might have been explained somewhere else in this thread but... IS there a difference between ganking and griefing?

Ganking and pirate, I can see. Pirate is engaging with you because they want something you have. Either something in your cargo hold, or maybe even a bounty on your head. The few pirates I've encountered will actually specify a PORTION of your cargo, as opposed to having to drop everything. (And in fairness, having to pick up hundreds of canisters of LTDs or whatnot wouldn't be a fun way to spend an evening)

But have always thought that ganking is essentially the practice of going after players (often times going after them in groups, which I've heard is going on in Deciat) or going after newer/unequipped pilots just for kicks. Which I kinda thought was the same thing as griefing?

That said, I do think a trip to Sir Ganksalot University should be in order for me at some point, once I finish up the engineering grind.

 

[ubermick]

^ Quality avatar there from Leo, by the way.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

^ Quality avatar there from Leo, by the way.

Have you seen the Python dead parrot sketch dubbed version of the interview? Marvellous.

 

[DemiserofD]

Late to the party here, and it might have been explained somewhere else in this thread but... IS there a difference between ganking and griefing?

Ganking and pirate, I can see. Pirate is engaging with you because they want something you have. Either something in your cargo hold, or maybe even a bounty on your head. The few pirates I've encountered will actually specify a PORTION of your cargo, as opposed to having to drop everything. (And in fairness, having to pick up hundreds of canisters of LTDs or whatnot wouldn't be a fun way to spend an evening)

But have always thought that ganking is essentially the practice of going after players (often times going after them in groups, which I've heard is going on in Deciat) or going after newer/unequipped pilots just for kicks. Which I kinda thought was the same thing as griefing?

That said, I do think a trip to Sir Ganksalot University should be in order for me at some point, once I finish up the engineering grind.

The main difference is focus, I think. Get killed once, that's a gank. Get killed twice, it's iffy. Get killed thrice, that's definitely griefing. Ganking is killing anyone weak, griefing is specifically targeting one player and making them miserable.

 

[Red Anders]

Was I one of them where I shot at you and you didnt notice I was there and when you twigged I ran away?

Yep. In a haz res somewhere near sol if I recall correctly. I would post the screenie I grabbed of your brave Sir Robin manoever were it not on my other hard drive

God that was about four years ago now.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

The main difference is focus, I think. Get killed once, that's a gank. Get killed twice, it's iffy. Get killed thrice, that's definitely griefing. Ganking is killing anyone weak, griefing is specifically targeting one player and making them miserable.

I have to admit, back when Borran was the place to be, there were so many players, I never even paid attention to the names of who I was ganking so I'm sure I ganked the same player 3 times in a row, if not more, without even knowing.
One night I was there, I encountered something like 15 shieldless Adders in a row. I thought for sure I was ganking the same player or players over and over again but every one was a different player. It was very odd.
Needless to say, many of us gankers aren't even paying attention to who we're killing, nor do we care what ship you're flying. We just kill whoever happens to be in supercruise at the moment.

On your end it may seem like we're intentionally coming after you but in reality, you're probably just really unlucky.

 

[Scurvydog00]

One night I was there, I encountered something like 15 shieldless Adders in a row. I thought for sure I was ganking the same player

Couldn't find any shield less Haulers so felt you had to challenge yourself that day eh?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Couldn't find any shield less Haulers so felt you had to challenge yourself that day eh?

Zorgon Peterson is OP.

 

[Screemonster]

Indeed. Ganking was originally a term used to describe multiple players ganging up on an individual but that's in large part because in a lot of games that's the only way that truly overpowering force can be brought to bear on a player.

In this game it's not the case at all. I've had exactly two pvp encounters in the time I've played the game because I primarily play in solo (not because I'm scared of losing muh pixels or space bux or anything; just because I bought the game intending to treat it as a single player game) but despite that, I can guarantee that if I decided to log into open in my engineered FDL and ran into some poor noob trying to do the Road to Riches in a crap-tier T6 or something, unless he'd watched Rinzler's helpful 'how to not die in open' videos, or attended Sir Ganksalot's gank survival academy, I'd have him on toast with a facefull of frags, just because his thinking time would probably be all that I needed.

Equally, if I ran into someone who was a good PVP player I would high wake because the five years experience I have in the game means I know that no matter what I was flying, I'd be getting a trip to the rebuy screen myself if I hung around.

God, that happened in my very first fight that I started. I was in open in my cutter farming a CZ, not even my best ship for doing CZs (it had been mothballed for a while and I decided to give it a go) when a krait showed up and joined the opposing side. I decided not to waste any time and engaged them, and I was caught off-guard by just how quickly they evaporated.

I was like "wait, I'm a pve player in a sub-par pve build, there's no way that should have worked that fast, that dude was weaker than most of the NPCs I've been blowing up"

 

[Red Anders]

Edit 2: Don't even think of saying something snarky @Red Anders about changing the G to a W or I'll tell everyone what you asked a bloke in BSGO what he does with his dog.

Haha you'd get banned for even posting that And he was a tool anyway.