Community Event / Creation Turning the Wheel

Cryptography

C
I am prepared to admit that Tritium TRADE may have an effect, but not mined trit.

Your assertion about the high end mined materials is self evidently completely wrong however.

We have had over a year of the Borann gold rush to prove it. Those stations with high end LTD prices were hit with billions in sales, and thousands of commanders per day, yet barely wavered in influence levels. The owners of these stations were not always the controlling faction in the system, particularly for smaller orbital platforms. If mined minerals had any noticeable effect there would have been a massive increase in wars for control. This simply did not happen.
 

KKomrade Sylas

KKomrade Sylas
It did affect the influence though, trade is just one lever, and it is also one of the levers that is hit the hardest with diminishing returns, like exploration data. Selling a billion credits worth of exploration data in one day is probably as effective as selling 40 million over 10 days, this is why you don't see these extremely wild influence shifts in the influence levels of an LTD perfect storm system.

With how high these profits were, I wager a single load of LTD's of a single commander already made the diminishing returns graph on the trade lever go completely flat.

If mined minerals had any noticeable effect there would have been a massive increase in wars for control.
Click to expand...

I don't think I am aware of how this makes any sense. LTD perfect storm systems were not many, max I have ever seen were 3 in a single day, usually 1 or 2, and more often than not there would be no systems buying at 1.7 million!

I am also not sure of what you mean with "massive increase", massive increase compared to what? Normal ammounts of wars? I assume you are talking about a comparisson between the number of wars for control before and after mining became as popular as it did, and Borann is not where it ends, least we remember the egg (RIP egg, TY egg) and thus I should assume you have the data for it.

I'm not here to throw jabs or pretend I know everything about BGS though because I certainly don't, but that particular bit doesn't make much sense to me at all from multiple perspectives.

Commanders are not going to these systems to sell their data, drop bounty vouchers, fight wars or pick up missions, they're just selling their mined goods. Using trade profit as your only lever is not the greatest idea if you want big swings in influence.

And there is no difference between mined tritium or tritium bought from a station, at least the game makes no distinction of it. The only exception is that because you didn't buy the tritium, the total profit from the sale is equal to the total sell price, that is to say, however much money you make from selling the tritium is the total profit, as if you bought it for 0 credits.
 
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Cryptography

C
Taken from the Standing orders on the Elite Week Discord https://discord.gg/Wtgnsbq

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Orders 22 - 23 Aug 3306

Sorry to sound like a one-track record on repeat again.. More work in HR 4979 today.

We have successfully avoided the main threat to our plans, and have diverted another expansion away from our targets.
Now we are in the final stages of fine tuning our target systems. Plan A is pretty much perfect, Plan B needs a bit more love still.
Getting very close to the pointy end now!

Expansion due ~27th aug.

Please do not do any of the following as they help the enemy:
Do NOT work for other factions in our systems, unless requested in the orders.
Do NOT hand in bounties for any faction other than The Dark Wheel in our systems.
Do NOT hand in trade goods or cartography data to stations that we do not own.

Tasks for today:

Bounty Hunting & Combat:
  • Bounty Hunting in LFT 926, Anyanwu or HR 4979. Hand in to HR 4979 or Shinrarta
  • Bounty hunting at the compromised Nav beacon in Anyanwu is also good.

Commodity Trading
  • Profitable trades into Iqbal Hub in HR 4979
  • Profitable trades into TDW owned ground stations in Shinrarta

Missions & Passengers
  • Missions for TDW in HR 4979
  • Missions for TDW in Shinrarta

Exploration Data:
  • Hand in to Iqbal Hub in HR 4979
  • Hand in TDW ground stations in Shinrarta

Please continue to use EDMC or similar tools to keep local data up to date.

Keep Spinning The Wheel, Hamsters!
 

Cryptography

C
Regarding Mined materials and their supposed trade effect:


The high end mined materials Painite, Low Temperature Diamonds, Void Opals, Benitoite, Serendibite and Musgravite, almost certainly have ZERO effect on influence. Not minimal, but Zero.

The evidence for this is as previously mentioned, the lack of damage to monitored systems even when affected by gold rush pricing and the thousands of commanders who made use of it. KKomrade Sylas is correct that trade is only one of the levers used to move BGS but even this alone would have caused complications. Further, several of the systems monitored by BGS groups I work for were on several occasions the highest paying LTD or Void Opal systems and we saw no movement at all. Caused quite a panic the first time! This was long before the Carrier patch but this is unlikely to have changed.

Tritium is also unlikely to have a BGS effect. The huge profits and relative ease of transport via carrier mean that this should have had significant effects that again seem not to have happened. TDW made use of Trit trading in the early days after the patch and did not get the effect we hoped for. Some of the other BGS groups I work with also tried it but did not get results. These tests were not particularly clean so it is possible trit may work. I consider it unlikely.

TDW have made use of Agronomic Treatment in recent trade by carrier. We did get significant movement in the systems but we were also doing other trade and pushing all available levers as hard as possible. This is in no way a clean test but I suspect that Ag treatment is not particularly effective. It was also introduced to the game as part of a community goal and is supposed to be useful for removing the blight BGS state.

These can all be tested relatively easily by dumping a few python loads of the relevant goods into a station in some backwoods part of the bubble and watching to see if the owning faction rises at the next tick.
 

Deareim

Deareim
Cryptography said:
Regarding Mined materials and their supposed trade effect:


The high end mined materials Painite, Low Temperature Diamonds, Void Opals, Benitoite, Serendibite and Musgravite, almost certainly have ZERO effect on influence. Not minimal, but Zero.

The evidence for this is as previously mentioned, the lack of damage to monitored systems even when affected by gold rush pricing and the thousands of commanders who made use of it. KKomrade Sylas is correct that trade is only one of the levers used to move BGS but even this alone would have caused complications. Further, several of the systems monitored by BGS groups I work for were on several occasions the highest paying LTD or Void Opal systems and we saw no movement at all. Caused quite a panic the first time! This was long before the Carrier patch but this is unlikely to have changed.

Tritium is also unlikely to have a BGS effect. The huge profits and relative ease of transport via carrier mean that this should have had significant effects that again seem not to have happened. TDW made use of Trit trading in the early days after the patch and did not get the effect we hoped for. Some of the other BGS groups I work with also tried it but did not get results. These tests were not particularly clean so it is possible trit may work. I consider it unlikely.

TDW have made use of Agronomic Treatment in recent trade by carrier. We did get significant movement in the systems but we were also doing other trade and pushing all available levers as hard as possible. This is in no way a clean test but I suspect that Ag treatment is not particularly effective. It was also introduced to the game as part of a community goal and is supposed to be useful for removing the blight BGS state.

These can all be tested relatively easily by dumping a few python loads of the relevant goods into a station in some backwoods part of the bubble and watching to see if the owning faction rises at the next tick.
Click to expand...

It does have effect, both positive (based on demand) and negative.
 

Cryptography

C
Taken from the Standing orders on the Elite Week Discord https://discord.gg/Wtgnsbq
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Orders 23 - 24 Aug 3306

Another day to work in HR 4979.
We also have some combat and elections to play with.
All else is progressing well.

Expansion due ~27th aug.

Please do not do any of the following as they help the enemy:
Do NOT work for other factions in our systems, unless requested in the orders.
Do NOT hand in bounties for any faction other than The Dark Wheel in our systems.
Do NOT hand in trade goods or cartography data to stations that we do not own.

Tasks for today:

Bounty Hunting & Combat:
  • Bounty Hunting in LFT 926, Anyanwu or HR 4979. Hand in to HR 4979 or Shinrarta
  • Bounty hunting at the compromised Nav beacon in Anyanwu is also good.
  • WAR - Conflict zones in LFT 926 supporting CIA against the goat suckers. (Los Chupacabras)

Commodity Trading
  • Profitable trades into Iqbal Hub in HR 4979 or Bunsen in Anyanwu (for Dems)
  • Profitable trades into TDW owned ground stations in Shinrarta

Missions & Passengers
  • Missions for TDW in HR 4979
  • Missions for TDW in Shinrarta
  • Combat related missions for CIA in LFT 926
  • Missions for LHS 346 Democrats. Non-combat ones only. (in Anyanwu).

Exploration Data:
  • Hand in to Iqbal Hub in HR 4979
  • Hand in TDW ground stations in Shinrarta

Please continue to use EDMC or similar tools to keep local data up to date.

Keep Spinning The Wheel, Hamsters!
 
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Capt Bellinger

Capt Bellinger
Vetinari said:
I'm probably the only one that hopes this continues until release of EDO. In fact, the 50th system or Sol should be done by assaulting a moon base on foot, that would be the film version anyway.
Click to expand...
Considering how FDev appear to abandoned all in-game story lines and Lore development I have to admit that I'm not expecting too much from Odyssey. Walk about on planets and scan/shoot things? Cool, perhaps, but why do it?

As I said quite early on in this thread, I think TTW has provided engaging content far beyond anything that FDev can be bothered with, including the grossly flawed Fleet Carriers.

Long may The Wheel be Turned!
 

Treya

Treya
Back in 2017 forum user Goemon published some research on the BGS effects of trading. Their findings indicated that INF gains are capped at 700 Cr profit per ton and that single commodity trading is less effective compared to selling a variety of goods per docking, with demand having no noticable impact. Based on that my current MO is to ferry out Mission goods and to bring in 4+ different commodities on the return leg. Is this still a valid strategy or should i adapt something?
 

PeteACarter

P
Vetinari said:
Fdev have my belief/hopes/faith until and unless EDO comes out with zero lore or story attached. Will wait and see what actually happens first.

Until then, like I said, I hope this TTW continues, not least just because it feels like a community again. Not 'The Community', a community.
Click to expand...
Mine too and I feel 100% sure that this project will lead to in game content.... before Oddessy.
 

Esteban

E
Treya said:
Back in 2017 forum user Goemon published some research on the BGS effects of trading. Their findings indicated that INF gains are capped at 700 Cr profit per ton and that single commodity trading is less effective compared to selling a variety of goods per docking, with demand having no noticable impact. Based on that my current MO is to ferry out Mission goods and to bring in 4+ different commodities on the return leg. Is this still a valid strategy or should i adapt something?
Click to expand...

Without evidence to the contrary, I believe that this is still a solid strategy. There appear to be other observations that point to the same conclusion (even here in this thread). I recently breezed over numerous posts in the BGS thread on this forum and other players have drawn the similar conclusions from their experiences too.

There's an awful lot there...

Background Simulation

Discuss anything related to the games background simulation here.
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
 

Esteban

E
Capt Bellinger said:
Considering how FDev appear to abandoned all in-game story lines and Lore development I have to admit that I'm not expecting too much from Odyssey. Walk about on planets and scan/shoot things? Cool, perhaps, but why do it?

As I said quite early on in this thread, I think TTW has provided engaging content far beyond anything that FDev can be bothered with, including the grossly flawed Fleet Carriers.

Long may The Wheel be Turned!
Click to expand...

I have to say that I have similar reactions about Odyssey. That seems like it turns this into a different game, or perhaps will add an element that doesn't entirely fit or that fits in an odd way. That being said, I am entirely open-minded and could easily change my mind if the activity turns out to be interesting, enjoyable, and adds to the game. I will be very willing to give it a try.

Your comment on FCs is widely shared. Not owning one (yet), I must say that the possibilities for adding play-depth and play-variety to the game should be immense. I also must say that FCs have most definitely added a very neat element to the game as evidenced by this very initiative and our ability to find one and benefit from its presence while turning the wheel.
I really enjoy visiting an FC during operations for TDW. It's the difference between visiting a personal-devoid station and visiting a real CMDR's ship. I know it's not tanglble, but it does stir something in the soul. It's just cool.
It's kinda entertaining to see some of the FC names out there and have a chuckle while traveling too. There are some really creative ones out there.
 

Gaeraew

G
Capt Bellinger said:
Considering how FDev appear to abandoned all in-game story lines and Lore development I have to admit that I'm not expecting too much from Odyssey. Walk about on planets and scan/shoot things? Cool, perhaps, but why do it?

As I said quite early on in this thread, I think TTW has provided engaging content far beyond anything that FDev can be bothered with, including the grossly flawed Fleet Carriers.

Long may The Wheel be Turned!
Click to expand...

The lack of lore of late has hit me as well. In fact, the complete lack of lore surrounding carriers is my biggest problem with them. Technical issues are to be expected. However, how is it they introduce something with such a massive effect on game-play and in-game socio-political dynamics without any sort of story???
 

Harrowdown

Harrowdown
There's a leak, there's a leak, in the boiler room...
Gaeraew said:
The lack of lore of late has hit me as well. In fact, the complete lack of lore surrounding carriers is my biggest problem with them. Technical issues are to be expected. However, how is it they introduce something with such a massive effect on game-play and in-game socio-political dynamics without any sort of story???
Click to expand...
One difference is that with carriers, they can throw it out of the park with ridiculous community goals. So if it's story you're after...

My best guess is things are going to get really busy with building all sorts of things on planets. Should be plenty opportunities for story there. Also, if they released carriers together with Odyssey, all of that would be in its infancy too. Now they have been patched a lot and there is a nice carrier support network ready to go as soon as the Odyssey community goals are announced.
 

Cryptography

C
Yes, in Anyanwu. Updated post for clarity. Kids were going nuts when I wrote it.


Trade for influence has changed since 2017. Now it is all about $$$ profit (not raw sales, the actual profit you make).

There is some debate ongoing about if having a non-zero demand matters. Plus people still arguing both sides about mining materials and other high profit stuff as per my earlier post.

Trading several different materials from different stations does not seem to matter any more. This is something we (the bgs groups I work with) have tested a bit, but not fully proven.

Best to cover all bases - trade millions of credits worth of the top selling products for which a demand exists.
 

Cryptography

C
Taken from the Standing orders on the Elite Week Discord https://discord.gg/Wtgnsbq
.
Orders 24 - 25 Aug 3306

Another good day for The Dark Wheel. Progress is being made in HR 4979. Elections and wars in Anyanwu and LFT 926 went the way we wanted.
A second hostile expansion has missed our target system, so we should have a clear run now. Although we are expecting it on the tick of the 27th, our expansion could happen a day or two earlier. All looking good so far.
Orders again the same as yesterday, hopefully a little clearer without my kids arguing in the background. RL hamster herding is hard!

Expansion due ~27th aug.

Please do not do any of the following as they help the enemy:
Do NOT work for other factions in our systems, unless requested in the orders.
Do NOT hand in bounties for any faction other than The Dark Wheel in our systems.
Do NOT hand in trade goods or cartography data to stations that we do not own.

Tasks for today:

Bounty Hunting & Combat:
  • Bounty Hunting in LFT 926, Anyanwu or HR 4979. Hand in to HR 4979 or Shinrarta
  • Bounty hunting at the compromised Nav beacon in Anyanwu is also good.
  • WAR - Conflict zones in LFT 926 supporting CIA against Los Chupacabras

Commodity Trading
  • Profitable trades into Iqbal Hub in HR 4979 or Bunsen in Anyanwu (for LHS 346 Democrats)
  • Profitable trades into TDW owned ground stations in Shinrarta

Missions & Passengers
  • Missions for TDW in HR 4979
  • Missions for TDW in Shinrarta
  • Combat related missions for CIA in LFT 926
  • Missions for LHS 346 Democrats in Anyanwu. Non-combat ones only.

Exploration Data:
  • Hand in to Iqbal Hub in HR 4979
  • Hand in TDW ground stations in Shinrarta

Please continue to use EDMC or similar tools to keep local data up to date.

Keep Spinning The Wheel, Hamsters!
 
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