Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Nikephorus Phocas

Nikephorus Phocas
Riverside said:
I'm not seeing a citation.

It doesn't matter what the ratio is, it only takes one nutter to show up at your door to get in the news headlines. I haven't a clue what repercussions you guys have in mind btw, but by all means imagine worst case if you like. The way I play, hopefully I will be able to justify whatever action caused someone's anger with more than just 'but it's just a game, it was only a bit of fun!'.

Mostly what I have in mind is that if a player acts a bit cocky & arrogant in game, someone will probably want to 'teach them a lesson'. We've discussed this earlier in the thread, I provided examples already so maybe just go read those again.
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citation for what? The vast majority that possess common sense? That the majority are not unhinged? How many people play video games each moment and how many are accosted or killed? I don't know either but I assure it's low and not common place. I don't even know what you're arguing for/against at this point. Perhaps a nice calm game of chutes and ladders is more to your liking.

There's a thing where gamers call the cops or a swat team on other players I think
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And a number of them get Swatted by their own fanbase while the individual streams for the lulz.
 

Riverside

Riverside
In case you missed it:
Riverside said:
A story I have shared on this forum before is that I used to run an online racing league. I once had a driver, unhappy with a ruling I had made over an incident, come to my house for a full & frank discussion. I am aware that this is something that can happen.
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Danquememe

Danquememe
Idiot_Savant said:
I'm thinking it's more likely a case of paranoia.
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I've said it before, and I genuinely believe it - forcing PVP and PVE / co-op -focused players into the same game mode is a terrible design choice. This thread has only deepened that feeling and impression.

If I had my way, I would play on a PVP-only server, where even if there were PVE activities possible, it was understood that PVP was the default mode and should be expected. All players would understand that when signing into it, and wouldn't be angry when it happened, because it would be "the game." Like playing a game a of chess, or checkers, or whatever.

To be clear, that's what I sincerely thought I was signing up for when I picked up Elite, but apparently - as this thread has shown me - I was mistaken. Deeply mistaken.

As it turns out, there are a number of players who actively hate the notion of being involved in PVP, and yet, they insist on playing in Open - because FDev gives them no choice if they want emergent co-op opportunities. Sure they could play in Solo or PG - but that does take away their satisfaction, in ways that have been documented here by their many responses.

What a toxic mess and breeding ground for the horrible kind of actions taken by the worst elements of the gaming community - doxxing, swatting and the like.

The worst part of all is that I am beginning to suspect there are some out there who get off on these types of revenge fantasies. It's more than a little chilling, especially when someone starts bandying around talk of "consequences" and doxxing and whatnot. Should I be swatted for taking your queen in a game of chess? Really? That's a real thing I need to be worried about in my leisure activity?

Someone out there is reading these words, and something deep inside them is rubbing its hands and chuckling with glee.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Phisto Sobanii said:
Cause I ain't here for people dictating what I do, what I say, and how I live my life. You wanna live under that? Be my guest.
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That would be the play how you like bit yes :) You are an out of control player, acting without any consideration for the consequences to your friends, your faction, any responsibilities & you don't give a damn about anyone or anything, because nobody's gonna tell you what to do :)

I consider my moves carefully & try to plan several moves ahead. Sometimes I overlook things or make mistakes. Then win or lose, I deal with that & adapt my plan, with branching contingencies. I enjoy it, probably not for everyone though.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Danquememe said:
I've said it before, and I genuinely believe it - forcing PVP and PVE / co-op -focused players into the same game mode is a terrible design choice. This thread has only deepened that feeling and impression.

If I had my way, I would play on a PVP-only server, where even if there were PVE activities possible, it was understood that PVP was the default mode and should be expected. All players would understand that when signing into it, and wouldn't be angry when it happened, because it would be "the game." Like playing a game a of chess, or checkers, or whatever.

To be clear, that's what I sincerely thought I was signing up for when I picked up Elite, but apparently - as this thread has shown me - I was mistaken. Deeply mistaken.

As it turns out, there are a number of players who actively hate the notion of being involved in PVP, and yet, they insist on playing in Open - because FDev gives them no choice if they want emergent co-op opportunities. Sure they could play in Solo or PG - but that does take away their satisfaction, in ways that have been documented here by their many responses.

What a toxic mess and breeding ground for the horrible kind of actions taken by the worst elements of the gaming community - doxxing, swatting and the like.

The worst part of all is that I am beginning to suspect there are some out there who get off on these types of revenge fantasies. It's more than a little chilling, especially when someone starts bandying around talk of "consequences" and doxxing and whatnot. Should I be swatted for taking your queen in a game of chess? Really? That's a real thing I need to be worried about in my leisure activity?

Someone out there is reading these words, and something deep inside them is rubbing its hands and chuckling with glee.
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You're not very good at this devil's advocate thing, are you?

Take whatever you are going to say and reverse the logic. If it doesn't work, maybe don't say that :)
 

Nikephorus Phocas

Nikephorus Phocas
Danquememe said:
What a toxic mess and breeding ground for the horrible kind of actions taken by the worst elements of the gaming community - doxxing, swatting and the like.
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This comes with every bit of competitive behavior in one form or another. Tanya Harding ring a bell? I don't think out of all the games played at any given time that there are these extreme cases of nonstop doxxing or even physical altercations. One person citing their own personal anecdote or even digging up over the interwebs for confirmation bias few and far betwen instances doesn't make a sweeping indictment on this game or the gaming community in general.


The thread we are in is a written record of the discussion, you can go back & have a look.
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Ok, you're not making sense. Obviously it has been talked about in this thread. How it got to that point is a vast deviation from the original intent and might revolve more around phisto. It's an observable tension towards him. Perhaps you don't like his candor.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Riverside said:
That would be the play how you like bit yes :) You are an out of control player, acting without any consideration for the consequences to your friends, your faction, any responsibilities & you don't give a damn about anyone or anything, because nobody's gonna tell you what to do :)
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You're the one suggesting we should all be careful in case we get dox'd or worse.

And I'm the one out of control?
 

Riverside

Riverside
Phisto Sobanii said:
You're the one suggesting we should all be careful in case we get dox'd or worse.

And I'm the one out of control?
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No I'm not, play how you like :)

If you aren't concerned about the consequences that's not something I can make you do, and I'm not trying to.

But no actions are consequence free. So I consider them.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Please discuss the topic and not the participants. When responding to participants, if a name must be used, use their username - not a name associated with a meme. Failure to comply will result in advisories, warnings, reply bans and may result in thread closure.
 

thistle

T
...
Danquememe said:
So wait - what he actually said was "you're making things go wrong for other people... in the way in which you do, within Elite."

He was emphasizing not only that these were part of the "traditional things" in Elite, but that these were the very kinds of things they at FDev are going to pains - 3 years' worth, apparently - to transpose into Odyssey's surface-based, FPS gameplay.

Because they are part of the richness of the game. His words.

And if there's anything I've learned from this thread, it's that you can absolutely be a massive jerk to another person - and really make things go wrong for them - in a wide variety of ways within Elite. Ganking is just but one of them. It's really opened my eyes in that regard.

Can you please tell us what you mean by "rationalisation" vis-a-vis this thread? In a game where its creator supports and in fact enables these activities - be they PVP, BGS PMFs, PowerPlay, ganking, bounty hunting and more - explain to me what you think that I, or anyone else, needs to have rationalized?

Because I'm not seeing it.

To be clear, so there is no ambiguity in my position:
None of the above means that people are wrong to be upset when someone "makes things go wrong for them" in-game.
But in a game where "making things go wrong for other people" is a stated feature, I'd suggest it's best to accept it's likely to happen again, as it's part of the game.
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He's talking about "making things go wrong for other people", so PVP (your preference), Powerplay, BGS player factions etc. That seems reasonable, I genuinely think we agree on what he meant.

What I'm disagreeing with is the idea that the company CEO and joint creator of the entire Elite franchise wants his player base to be "jerks", and to gank new players, sealclubbing. I mean gankers can do it, as we've all agreed, the game allows it.

I'm arguing rationalising sealclubbing by suggesting the CEO approves is silly.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
thistle said:
...

He's talking about "making things go wrong for other people", so PVP (your preference), Powerplay, BGS player factions etc. That seems reasonable, I genuinely think we agree on what he meant.

What I'm disagreeing with is the idea that the company CEO and joint creator of the entire Elite franchise wants his player base to be "jerks", and to gank new players, sealclubbing. I mean gankers can do it, as we've all agreed, the game allows it.

I'm arguing rationalising sealclubbing by suggesting the CEO approves is silly.
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In the early days DB would be about in a T-9 and get whacked a lot.

Maybe he Got Gud and turned the tables?

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