The new commoditiy system is screwed.
- Thread starter Dan Sho
- Start date
There's always been exploits, sure, but nothing that could turn credits like mining / today's massacre stacking could.
- seeking luxuries? Would get you a whole ~1m credits per loop.
- stacking massacres pre- nerf? Massacres then only earned you about 1-2m, so 20 identical stacked missions would earn you what a single massacre or two would get you today.
- stacking power generator missions? Sure, whip 20 missions with a single missile, but again that'd only get you about 20m, and the stacking took time. Mission boards generated half as many missions as they do today.
- Robigo? Again, roughly 1m per mission, for around 20m per run, for what actually held risk of losing everything and copping big fines.
- rockforth? Those people actually got punished.
This is why people who were around for all these exploits are so bewildered by mining... FD took every measure to stamp out quick money spinners. They were slow to it, but they did. Then along came mining which spun significantly more than any exploit to-date, and that was peachy. It was a completely counter-intuitive move.
So whether or not rollbacks happened is irrelevant due to the enormity of impact mining/ massacre stacking has had on player wealth today.
Even with those exploits, an A rate Anaconda took months, not days, to earn.
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Yes, I remember that. I didn't have an Anaconda, the only large ship in the game then, until at least eight months into the game as I recall. Heck, it took me six months to get to the Clipper and soon after the Python.
Now days, if motivated to do so, that's all done in an evening or maybe weekend if you're learning.
Now days, if motivated to do so, that's all done in an evening or maybe weekend if you're learning.
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I remember being one of the first in Wolves of Jonai to get an anaconda and that was ~8 months after I started. Kept calling those in Pythons Peasants
Didnt go down very well
I mean that's the entire point and the pointlessness of complaining and asking for fixes, there is no economic system in Elite Dangerous at the moment, and changes are purely driven by the developers and the programming, so any changes aren't going to be dynamically adjusting themselves, it's going to be programmatic and essentially fixed.
the assumption is wrong.
yesterday i sold 1t of painite at 0200 servertime (11 hours after the tick) at a station with with 1100 demand. this morning it is back to 1100 demand.
i think what you are seeing is an effect of people using 3rd party apps of best sell stations, selling as you did "nevertheless".
demand regeneration of painite is really slow - even slower after the upped galactic avergae; something like 3 days now. at max demand of 1100 that should be around 12t per hour. if you want to read into it, here is Ian D.s excellent thread: https://eddb.io/station/market/13940
in that regard nothing has changed by the "new commodity system". painite, as LTD before, might have been patched out the bug of instant demand regeneration during states each 10 minutes.
prices are bound to state, and states go live at tick. if you are not around those hours when new prices are updated via third party apps your option would be a) to scout high sell prices yourself instead of using 3rd partysources or b) use a different mineral/metal. yesterday i sold alexandrite for over 900k cr/t or c) wait until the tick happens at a time more favourably to your timezone. it moves around over the year.
for similar concerns on tick time generally, i would love fdev to schedule the tick at a 25 hours cycle - but as sometimes things go bad with a tick, i totally understand as a uk company they want to have the tick happen during uk office hours.
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Bad news for you, then: it won't recover at the tick either...
There are two issues working to keep the demand low:
1) Demand can be negative if a station is over-sold to. It shows as zero on the market display in that case, but could actually be -300
Here's the graph from a little market experiment earlier - you can see the demand sticks at zero for a while, in one case about 12 hours - before starting to creep back up, as the team piled in considerably more Pesticides than were immediately needed. Demand recovers continuously and isn't tied to the tick.
History of Pesticides at Vitto Orbital
cdb.sotl.org.uk
2) The more expensive a good is, the slower its demand regenerates ... on average, anyway. There's not been enough time to measure how the new Painite regenerates demand ... but before it got an infinite regeneration bug in the 3.7 release, it took multiple months [1] to regenerate from empty to full, so it's probably similar now ... and some of these stations will be super-empty and therefore take longer. If someone's piled in a few thousand tonnes when it was already at demand zero, it might be months before it recovers to 1t.
One station near me which doesn't get enough Painite sales to be permanently stuck to zero seems to be regenerating about a tonne a day - it went up from 806t to 807t just a couple of hours ago, having sat at 806t since a big sale about 24 hours ago. It's probably not that slow across the board - previously, before the demand bug, this station regenerated Painite demand considerably slower than a lot of other nearby stations - but I wouldn't hang around either.
So what you get is a very complex combination of factors affecting the price
- the combination of BGS states sets a baseline price
- how much demand is left modifies that price, potentially significantly, and that's all down to the activity of many thousands of players mining
A smart or lucky player can get a really good price by finding a top BGS combination before anyone else does ... but equally, a top BGS combination that's been oversold to is likely to be outdone by a much more common BGS combination that's merely "good", and someone skipping around dropping off a couple of hundred tonnes each at tens of those might make more money in the long run. Equally, switching between Painite, Platinium, Osmium, LTDs and core Gems as fashions fluctuate ... and hoping that everyone else just mines Painite because FamousYoutuber said "mine Painite for big money" six months ago ... could give much higher profits.
[1] The exact speed is station-specific, but it'll be slow regardless.
All commodities behave like this - except that before this week's changes, there was a bug meaning that Painite and some core gems didn't - their demand regenerated infinitely fast. This has now been fixed.
Most commodities, however, regenerate sufficiently fast and are traded sufficiently infrequently in any one place, that it's very rare for them to spend much time below the cap on total positive demand, and so this effect isn't really noticed. Even something moderately popular and fairly slow to regenerate like Performance Enhancers spends most of its time at the cap at most stations
History of Performance Enhancers at Dove Enigma
cdb.sotl.org.uk
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It cpuld be going into negative while still displaying 0 demand. It used to still put up price when at 0 demand.
So? Pre balance average was 56k, and current peak looks to be around 350k.
900k wasn't the average, that was peak condition sales.
lol, 800k WAS the average sometimes, peak was 1.092.000 dude !
I spent a day or two trading with Carriers the other day.
A good experience and highly recommended.
Also the markets are not effected by anything FD can do.,
Rubbish. The average was ~56k. EDDB even still lists that.
800k relied on a set of state combinations and was not "the norm". And yes, 1m was peak, when public holiday landed.
The rest of the galaxy? ~56k.
Rubbish ?... you have no clue dude, was near 1,1 millions, funny how you round down , and by average I mean you could pick DOZENS of stations to sell with near 800k, and if you just waited a couple of days you easily could find near 1 million. Your argument here have no value, fact is now you cannot find prices over 493k, and even those are a lottery, because you can hit the lowest at 160k... fact is the promised 600k The HIGHEST price never show up , a detail you need to open your eyes before arguing.
The nerf was not 40% but between 60-75%, the date on INARA since the update are the clear proof.
And you talk about EDDB ?! lol, look again - max price is listed 355k RIGHT NOW, almost HALF from the one trumpeted by devs !
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I'm glad that some of these commodities are taking the nerf bat.
It's silly that from a starter mining sidey you can mine 4 units of something valuable and basically invalidate the cheapest 10 ships.
It's silly that from a starter mining sidey you can mine 4 units of something valuable and basically invalidate the cheapest 10 ships.
You can still do that with other minerals, so your point is empty. Do you realize that, right ?
The normal thing they should have done was to fix first the damn PWA and only AFTER to nerf the laser mining, and in the mid time, to fix the credits for combat.
Was worth the wait !
Once again the voice of clarity in an insane galaxy.
All hail Ian for he knoweth the mystical dark arts of BGS economy.. we are not worthy, we are not worthy ....
Edit: Could you start signing your posts, like this one, with:- "BOOM" Mic drop... exits stage right.
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