Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[sovapid]

It does seem like the Assassination missions have really gotten nerfed in terms of them appearing.

So with a crime stat, there really arent that many space ship missions in the space ship game.

hmmmmm

Wouldnt be too much of a problem if my parts that i bought in game didnt keep disappearing with each patch.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

No they don't. That's not how software development actually works. There's this thing called “abstraction” that has been around since, oh, the 50s or so (and I'll leave it to you to guess which century). It's an essential tool to avoid exactly the kind of unsolvable mutual interdependence you're describing, and which allows for complex prototyping (another essential tool) to go ahead without just being stuck in the same spot forever.

Heh, even I and my friends did that step in 90's when we did smallish menu driven text adventure game for MS-DOS. About first idea we did was to make certain design model, and on it was based games engine (kind of skeleton with "room modules" fitted to main procedure). After that was ready it was easy to give meat to bones, aka write the text, and various menu options. Beauty in that aproach was that it was pretty to add more "rooms" to game. Plus one could test things before fitting them to main game.

 

[MTBFritz]

I couldn't put it better. It's amazing how you need to rub common sense into people's faces and they still wont see it.

I made some lengthy posts about this phenomenon ^^

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They must have more tools than B&Q by now.

Don't just do it! CIG it!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Someday,

"Someday" - the eternal dream of the SC backer.

That's exactly what i'm referring to with magical moment. The dream that someday CIG will have everything they need.

 

[sovapid]

trying to make money in game, missions are not working, but getting to meet plenty of player bounty hunters.

really should get paid for killing them.

 

[metatheurgist]

Waaait...weren't they supposed to be "building a studio" to do all that crap? Why do they need to outsource now? Did the studio burn down?

 

[sovapid]

damn pad campers!

although he/she might not have had their shields up? who knows, wouldnt be the first time the UI messed up.

and $120 ship vs $290 ship

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-NezdX_bsE

 

[Mole HD]

ARE YOU KIDDING? These monstrosities are right on par with his devil cows. I m not sure Mole is operating a "normal" farm out there at all!!!

Made Oi laff that did

 

[TiberiusDuval]

If I were any of these dogs, I'd be hoping one of the other idiots would be the one stupid enough to go chase a cat that isn't even slightly perturbed

I've had to cover a couple of vet bills for people with dogs stupid enough to go barking at my cats or Ming the Merciless...being farm cats, they're not the running away type...Unlike those 2 monsters though, the other one, Bonsai, will tolerate strange dogs as long as they remain civil.

Spoiler: Cute cat pics

...and Ming the Merciless

Those cat pics reminds me about my family's farmcat. Smallish female but she truly surprised me once, when she brought back a rat. A very big fat rat. About same size as the cat herself. (Those rats could feast on grain storage and some got very big...)

 

[Tippis]

Waaait...weren't they supposed to be "building a studio" to do all that crap? Why do they need to outsource now? Did the studio burn down?

They were supposed to build a mocap studio to do all kinds of crap. So they did, four times. Then they outsourced it. Then the studio burned down went into administration due to insolvency. Then the mocap turned out to be pretty crap.

But that's a different story (that has been replicated a few times over by now to almost be a company tradition).

 

[Firkrayt]

What obligations does SC have? That are contractual, like the paying of royalties?

Whatever, Chris just absolves himself. Because he can.

Waaait...weren't they supposed to be "building a studio" to do all that crap? Why do they need to outsource now? Did the studio burn down?

They did, but it was not up to their standards, so they have to restart from scratch. Please pledge, restarting the development wouldn't pay for itself, Chris needs more of your money.
Also, the backers are totally fine with it:

Time is exactly what's important here. Couldn't it maybe be a good idea to take a time consuming task like system creation and give it to an independent studio that has probably agreed to certain standards, while also being a little out from under CIG? No issues with CIG taking their time, everything looks amazing

Last year we brought a cat from our vet into our house as it needed a home. Within a couple of days it had ripped our dog apart

In Soviet Russia!

Fuel saving tips in SC physics, from an MSR owner.
I wouldn't buy quantanium when refueling. I can fly 8 rounds (with an XL1 drive) between PO and MT before needing quantanium. I'm almost certain I'll lose the MSR to a 30K long before I run out - so I'll get free fuel on the claim.

In Star Citizen, bugs refuel you!!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Turbulent's SC web page.

Turbulent – Star Citizen

Crafting universes of unprecedented magnitude

www.turbulent.ca

Makes it look like they are totally responsible for delivering on a load of stuff.

So... what are the 400-600 CIG people doing?

With upwards of 2.5 million players, in a galaxy of 91 star systems and 900+ planets and stations, the world of Star Citizen is an ever-expanding feat of audience engagement.

What a crock of shiite!

That's totally misleading and downright false advertising. There are not 2.5 million players, that's accounts, which they themselves acknowledged years ago that accounts != players.

91 star systems? Erm... 1. But maybe they are doing a CIG and talking about the future in present tense? Still wrong, because backers plegded for 110!

"feat of audience engagement" - kind of says it all. Most companies would say "game" but they are not making a game, they are making a marketing platform to bring in more money.

And this gave me a laugh at the end:

Remarkable media reception
“Shared passion between players and creators has maintained engagement through seven years of active development with no end in sight.” – Newsweek
“Star Citizen shows no signs of slowing down” - Polygon

No end in sight! Truer words have never been spoken.
No signs of slowing down? Would be pretty hard to get any slower!

 

[Skizomeuh]

Waaait...weren't they supposed to be "building a studio" to do all that crap? Why do they need to outsource now? Did the studio burn down?

They built 3 studios actually, US, UK, Germany...

But fret not, the "SQ42 is the priority, that's why" excuse coming any time soon.

 

[Tippis]

They built 3 studios actually, US, UK, Germany...

But fret not, the "SQ42 is the priority, that's why" excuse coming any time soon.

…also, LA (since they started out in Austin before someone needed to be closer to Hollywood for no relevant reason… or maybe it was sometwo).

 

[Thargon]

Star Citizen development passes 9 years in 2020!
View attachment 196499

Well it's definately progress! I forsee one extra block on the plan in the forthcoming two months!

Nobody told me Thargoids were playing Star Citizen!

Really?

Also, I caught up with the thread thanks to MBFritz's excellent writeups (as always). Amazing what you can achieve with one post (just jesting). I really am curious though, what progress has actually been made?

Is there an avocado there that can shed some light on the situation? I'm just too lazy to go looking for the information myself, when it's usually all in this thread. I stay away from reddit on principle.

 

[kilvenny]

Turbulent is an interesting move. It's in a different country and a separate entity, so no liabilities from the last 8 years. If I remember correctly they also do the website. Is this the building blocks of an exit strategy, the IP has already been handled. At some point CIG folds (likely after the launch of SQ42) and the website becomes Turbulent. Pure speculation of course.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Turbulent is an interesting move. It's in a different country and a separate entity, so no liabilities from the last 8 years. If I remember correctly they also do the website. Is this the building blocks of an exit strategy, the IP has already been handled. At some point CIG folds (likely after the launch of SQ42) and the website becomes Turbulent. Pure speculation of course.

Its possible. Like i mentioned a few pages back, Disney have argued you can transfer rights without transferring obligations. Would be a way for Turbulent to pick it up (with CR, a shareholder in Turbulent, to continue leading it) without being obliged to deliver on those pestky things like kickstarter and CIG stretch goals.

Like its interesting how Turbulent wrote 90 systems instead of 110.... a mistake? Or are they cutting back on what backers paid for?

 

[VR Golgot]

Turbulent is an interesting move. It's in a different country and a separate entity, so no liabilities from the last 8 years. If I remember correctly they also do the website. Is this the building blocks of an exit strategy, the IP has already been handled. At some point CIG folds (likely after the launch of SQ42) and the website becomes Turbulent. Pure speculation of course.

It could simply be that they're an ambitious company that has wiggled themselves into a gap. And that the tax breaks don't hurt.

TheAgent's leak juice suggests there may be a Calders angle to it all though:

October 5th

• recent "big ask" for another round of investments
• this will include another round of monies for advertising
• this ask also includes a large amount directly to Turbulent
• Turbulent currently handles some networking, level design, gameplay design and more for SC
• "We are not working on anything related to Squadron 42. That is all being handled by Wilmslow."
• more and more of SC proper to be turned over to Turbulent
• it has been a "rough transition" and still in process
• starting this quarter, expect "a more detailed, polished and presentable roadmap" from Turbulent
• unknown if this transition will be announced
• "We don't know how are fans are going to react, but Chris is still heavily involved in the project."
• Turbulent "only adding help" not "taking away development" from CI
• "We are the same company, the same people, the same ones that have been working [on SC] this whole time."
• some Turbulent employees feel sad about only being referred to as "the website guys"
• "Loads of us play the game, love the game, fixed bugs, [and] have helped make gameplay decisions."
• the stalled progress this year has made some management nervous about new deadlines
• internally, SC is considered a live game and released [again, heard this years ago]
• SQ42 "proper" is at least another 24 to 36 months out
• as more and more new hires are brought in to replace devs, the code base gets more and more unstable.
• "Almost no one is documenting. Almost no one talks to each other. We nod like bobbleheads, mute like carps."

Generally foreshadowed by stuff like this. (Turbulent in bold, but the discussion of missed internal deadlines & presentations an interesting backdrop too):

July 8th

• work from home has been a "huge hurdle" to overcome, per half a dozen different people
• problems with security and remote access to work stations continue to be an issue
• "There's days when (VPN/servers) are down two, three, four hours."
• some feel the initial response to CV19 was poor due to crunch-like mentality
• "You come in. You're sick, it's what you do, not a big deal."
• "People were still coming in to work, sick, or knowing someone that was ill."
• some communication from upper management/executives now almost non-existent
• guidance on tasks and workflow left up to non-management, depending on department
• several German/UK employees have left to positions elsewhere, outside of gaming
• Turbulent helping with Theaters of War/SQ42, additional coding help with SC in-game events and cinematics
• new investor buy in Q2 this year, NOT Calders supposedly
• "Nothing runs like we have all this money."
• Invictus Launch Week was supposed to coincide with the release of Theaters of War and 4.0
• variables that determine new flight mechanics have to be adjusted on a per ship basis
• "We are moving away from that system in the near future, thankfully."
• Yet another next-gen console rumor: "Expect the announcement for multiple platforms." (this is the Nth ing time I've heard this lol)
• quarterly updates to investors re: SQ42 have stalled, last update was early Q1
• these are supposed to include gameplay, cutscene and progress updates for the 2020 launch
• "soft-launch" or SQ42 prelude contains three to four hours of linear gameplay with an additional two hours of cutscenes, with some repeatable content across "open-world" planets
• this was meant to test the console waters at a lower price point ($39.99) with additional chapters and the full game offered at a discount after the first buy-in (when released)
• target is one million sold in first 48 hours, additional four million sold within 30 days, digital sales only

July 29th

[Re: Roadmap] We have to continue to hold out until we find an honest way to placate our investors. The oversight leveled against us was fine in the beginning, but after the first [SQ42 gameplay "monthlies"] deadline was missed, they started paying more and more attention. If we put a roadmap out for the backers, the investors are going to use that to penalize the project: not only monetarily, but with cuts to our workforce and with additional oversight. Those will only slow down our already somewhat stalled progress this year. Management understands this and is doing a sword-dance around the issues...for the record, we are not holding things back for [backers]. It is much more complicated than that.

quote:

I feel everyone is slacking off right now. The computer issues don't help. The lack of forward momentum doesn't help. We're running around in circles and the people giving us the directions are telling us to keep doing what we are doing. Everyone digitally clocks in and then mentally clocks out.

quote:

The last time we demoed the game, it was heavily scripted. [QA] had been playing it for hours and hours, getting the right route [and content]. The investors wanted it live, so nothing pre-recorded like we are used to sending. Everyone got really quiet when [they] asked if they could play it themselves and not follow the script at all. Almost immediately after the controller was handed over, they crashed. [Someone in the meeting] nervously laughed. I think that was the day we lost a lot of confidence with our investors and they started really looking at our progress.

quote:

We keep saying "a console port is easy, everything is set up for it already, the engine handles almost all the work out of the box" and we repeat it and repeat it until I think even we believe it. There is no console port or attempt for [SQ42], even though we told them it [could be complete] the week before Thanksgiving.

quote:

I can say this about Cloud Imperium and Foundry 42: they are trying very, very hard to keep people on during the pandemic. I can't say the same about the investors. Turbulent is taking over more and more development responsibilities, because they can plan and hit target dates and the investors like that. [Turbulent] mentioned that they could do the game for a tenth of what [Roberts] promised. I'm scared they might wrestle away more and more control and let our studio close.

September 24th

• CIG has been given another 12 months to release the SQ42 first strike/prelude
• a reminder that this is NOT the full game or "Episode 1" but more of a "demo" in media res
• this new date is "absolutely immovable" by new oversight committee (lol: we'll see)
• this is a combination of covid19 and other development woes
• hearing (again) that UE4 is being utilized for cutscenes
• "We're doing [in-game cinematics] twice. We create a simple preview using [UE4 Blueprint/Sequencer] for approval, since it's faster. After sign-off, we create them [into Lumberyard using Track View, a CryEngine tool]."
• supposedly this creates less work, as approval/rough cut cutscenes take "a very, very long time to sculpt" in LY/CE
• post-approval cutscenes were constantly changed, even after sign-off
• these highly-detailed, complex and polished final cuts went back to planning, sometimes being completely rewritten as other chapters of the game changed
• "thousands and thousands of man-hours" continue to be lost to this, according to 3rd party animator
• final cut in "immediate lockdown" starting Q4 2020
• this means no more changes to the initial story, animations or voice acting
• number of employees at CIG proper now less than 350
• many 3rd party contractors bring this total up higher
• "This is the second time we have enlisted the major help of third party developers. Loads of us wonder about another waste of resources, since we brought everything back in-house [in 2017/2018] anyway. Are we going to look through their work and again say 'Not good enough?'"

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Waaait...weren't they supposed to be "building a studio" to do all that crap? Why do they need to outsource now? Did the studio burn down?

Is maturing.