ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing
I'm not sure exactly, and if it's noted somewhere upthread I'm not seeing what - specifically - was done to payouts for cargo missions. But I can offer this from personal experience; pre-balancing it was fairly common to be able to build rep with a faction and get single-run cargo missions (120-180 tons) that regularly paid out between 4 -10 million CR per mission. I think the highest single-run trading mission reward I ever got was somewhere around 11.5 million. That's a LOT of credits for shuttling a load from one station to another a single hyperjump away. Frequently these missions triggered a NPC interdiction - BFD. With a dedicated trading platform (Python) it was a trading mechanic almost as ridiculously lucrative as mining - 100M CR per hour being typical, with bursts up to about 250M CR per hour occurring with a little luck.
Coincidentally, I got into mining - and more recently into combat - right about the same time as the recent rebalancing, and my efforts in trade have lately been more to the purpose of pushing influence rather than making money for myself; still, what I see coming up on the mission board seems to reflect a dampening of those stratospheric payouts for trade missions into the 1,2,3 mil CR range. Still not bad money for very little effort/risk compared to other available game mechanics.
Nobody has ever been excited about anything related to cargo missions.
There was a time when a cargo mission of 180t palladium gave rewards of 10M. Then, before this nerf, we could find these types of missions giving rewards of 20M. Now it pays 2M.
It's this bad. Don't they know how to moderate? It would be fine around 6-8M for 180t palladium, if they increased the risk and sent several elite guys after us.
But worse than that, it's commodities market. Commodity values are so average now, that it simply doesn't pay off to make any trade.
They could have lowered the value of mineable commodities and leave the rest as it was.
It's this bad. Don't they know how to moderate? It would be fine around 6-8M for 180t palladium, if they increased the risk and sent several elite guys after us.
But worse than that, it's commodities market. Commodity values are so average now, that it simply doesn't pay off to make any trade.
They could have lowered the value of mineable commodities and leave the rest as it was.
I still get up to 7 interdictions within one SC run carrying around 5M in total cargo. That's why I've started playing other games again more than ED.
The old 180t palladium cargo mission now are 196t and give around 5.8million each. 196t gold missions give around 5,1million and silver give around 4,5 million.
Also now there are not 120t missions or 96t. they have been changed to 108t and 132t, although these were also before but not so common.
there are still 48t and 72t.
the thing is not only they have changed the reward, they have changed the tonnage of big missions. so is double combo nerf
could we, at least, have the old tonnage back, even with the new rewards?
Also now there are not 120t missions or 96t. they have been changed to 108t and 132t, although these were also before but not so common.
there are still 48t and 72t.
the thing is not only they have changed the reward, they have changed the tonnage of big missions. so is double combo nerf
could we, at least, have the old tonnage back, even with the new rewards?
The problem is that these hauling missions are based on the type of commodity being hauled AT ALL.
Why should a truck driver get paid more for hauling a more expensive package? If I ship a bar of gold via postal service, does the mailman get paid more? Of course not, don't be ridiculous.
The increase in payment should be based on the fact pirates want to interdict you more with a more valuable cargo, not the value of the cargo itself. If you ask me to move 200 tons of biowaste vs 200 tons of gold, I should get paid very nearly the same amount. Heck, given the recent increases to bounty payouts, you could argue that the more dangerous mission should pay LESS; if I get interdicted by an anaconda, that's 1m+ of bounty for killing them.
What I'd like to see is a bonus objective of 'never fail interdiction minigame', or even harder, 'don't get interdicted at all', showing the enemy faction they're utterly unable to stop the movement of goods.
Why should a truck driver get paid more for hauling a more expensive package? If I ship a bar of gold via postal service, does the mailman get paid more? Of course not, don't be ridiculous.
The increase in payment should be based on the fact pirates want to interdict you more with a more valuable cargo, not the value of the cargo itself. If you ask me to move 200 tons of biowaste vs 200 tons of gold, I should get paid very nearly the same amount. Heck, given the recent increases to bounty payouts, you could argue that the more dangerous mission should pay LESS; if I get interdicted by an anaconda, that's 1m+ of bounty for killing them.
What I'd like to see is a bonus objective of 'never fail interdiction minigame', or even harder, 'don't get interdicted at all', showing the enemy faction they're utterly unable to stop the movement of goods.
You make a good point, particularly considering the fine on failure is directly related to the cargo itself.
Data delivery missions are already (obviously) independent of cargo value; they have all the mission spawn pirate, rank & destination based criteria, cargo delivery missions could use that template for payment calculations instead.
Except of course, those data delivery missions don't actually reward very much
Does this drive us right back into mining, again?You make a good point, particularly considering the fine on failure is directly related to the cargo itself.
Data delivery missions are already (obviously) independent of cargo value; they have all the mission spawn pirate, rank & destination based criteria, cargo delivery missions could use that template for payment calculations instead.
Except of course, those data delivery missions don't actually reward very much
If I'm not an expert miner then I shouldn't play ED.
As someone who has been playing from launch, I've pretty much run through the existing gameplay loops. I have a fleet carrier, and the credits to sustain it.
I have a great mix of ships for any particular mission.
Elite has a greater problem. For many of us, the game may be played out.
I have a great mix of ships for any particular mission.
Elite has a greater problem. For many of us, the game may be played out.
Cargo missions should have some people after you if it's a high value cargo however there should always be some pirate in the system that you fly near who scans you and then trys ro interdict your ship.
As in most things these days there is always someone who wants what you have. Maybe having NPC hitmen for past kills etc would also love it up as well.
As in most things these days there is always someone who wants what you have. Maybe having NPC hitmen for past kills etc would also love it up as well.
Let's put the cargo missions this way:
If I trade 180t of palladium, I would get way more than 6M profit. The problem is- it's a valuable cargo- and one can't find 180t of palladium cheap selling anywhere. So, when someone wants me to haul 180t of palladium, they are asking me to transport a very valuable cargo and at a very high risk. I wouldn't do it for less than 6M, heck, I wouldn't do it for less than 8M. It would be MY profit. Yes. Mine. Not his. If he wanted to transport that cargo for cheaps, he would have to buy himself a ship and risk it. And I would snitch him to the police, because... in a station where there's no more than 2t of palladium selling, where does he get 180t?
The only way I see as immersive justification for these missions is that the cargo is invaluable, required to reach point B ASAP. And so they are willing to pay high for its delivery.
I WILL not play MAIL POST in space. That kind of cheap service can be made by low paid faction scum.
Elite traders require ELITE payment. XD
If I trade 180t of palladium, I would get way more than 6M profit. The problem is- it's a valuable cargo- and one can't find 180t of palladium cheap selling anywhere. So, when someone wants me to haul 180t of palladium, they are asking me to transport a very valuable cargo and at a very high risk. I wouldn't do it for less than 6M, heck, I wouldn't do it for less than 8M. It would be MY profit. Yes. Mine. Not his. If he wanted to transport that cargo for cheaps, he would have to buy himself a ship and risk it. And I would snitch him to the police, because... in a station where there's no more than 2t of palladium selling, where does he get 180t?
The only way I see as immersive justification for these missions is that the cargo is invaluable, required to reach point B ASAP. And so they are willing to pay high for its delivery.
I WILL not play MAIL POST in space. That kind of cheap service can be made by low paid faction scum.
Elite traders require ELITE payment. XD
And if we consider that a ship doing that mission for an outpost must be a medium ship, and thus a paper-thin probably shieldless crazy guy, the chances of risking a fight against those condas is- meh, better not.
And yet, I've been able to kill one of those condas on reverski with 2 L pulse lasers. Don't know why it kept pursuing. It should have run away like all others do. But it stayed until 0 hull. Weird.
Killing mission spawn pirates in one of my trader ships (usually a frag Python) is where I get the majority of my engineering mats. Most NPCs don't present much of a challenge to a player ship built for combat, it's more a matter of how many can be killed or possibly whether they can be killed before they escape than whether the player is likely to see the rebuy screen.
In a trader the challenge can be a bit more interesting
But I do agree that missions shouldn't have been affected by this balancing pass, they weren't the problem (ludicrous profit from mining, left in the game for nearly 2 years was imo).
And with that I agree too. The problem was mining profit. AS in- selling mineable goods. They just had to lower the value of these on the market.
Id say if someone wants me to ship that much high value cargo to a nearby high security system, then it shouldn't pay much. If it is to a nearby anarchy though it should carry a good premium or if it requires travelling a longer distance with no possibility to plot safe route.