Piracy, bounty hunting, wars, powerplay and numerous other conflicts are a completely intended part of the game and any proposed flagging system that has a harmful impact upon them is a complete non-starter.
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
- Thread starter Syrtal
- Start date
This is why I advocate, when the idea of flagging comes up, for a flag that would still allow the victim to be disabled but not destroyed provided some other sensible conditions are met (not in an anarchy or other "hazardous" area, hardpoints stowed, not wanted, not powerplay enemies, etc). That way the worst any ganker would be able to accomplish is trash your modules, but pirates (who don't want to kill you) would be able to do their thing, especially if menu-logging on someone that was carrying hatchbreakers made you drop a small amount of cargo or something so that isn't a kick in the teeth for them either.Gankers think they are the heroes of the story, but I remember system chat in Borann being dominated by people disgusted by gankers and switching to Solo. As a PvP pirate (one who never kills his mark except in self-defense), I encouraged them to come back to Open (teaching them how to avoid gankers) so they could experience real piracy. Some did, and they loved it!
So yeah, this occasional PvP pirate is sad that gankers push so many people into Solo, thus why I preach the good news of the gospel of block
Job done, ganking effectively rendered impossible as the worst they'd be able to do before you just log out is give you a life support timer (and I don't know any gankers that operate anywhere that's more than five minutes from a station) and the impact on intended gameplay is minimised.
Not a terrible idea actually.
Arguably should have been in the game from the start for "traders" to allow piracy.
There's just a bazillion conditions you would need to meet to make it effective and to ensure its not exploited.
I keep having to stress this; they are being "harmed" now already by players like me who refuse to play in open. This idea doesn't change anything in that respect.
Forgive me, I've been in so many discussions with various people that I forget who I said what to. So here's my sales pitch in the very rare chance you haven't heard it yet - you can play in Open and enjoy things like real PvP piracy. The way I do it is simple - if I'm "murdered" by the stereotypical ganker (the guys who sit in Deciat in G5 FDLs and kill players in seconds for the lulz), then I'm dead to that person. I mean, they killed me, right? As soon as I'm dead, I block them, and they never see me again (I'm dead) and I never see them again (they are in jail for attempted murder).
Of course this means dying a few times to weed out these killjoys, but it really doesn't take long for Open to be transformed into an entirely different experience. And if you're not wanting to lose your most valuable ship during the early days of "dying for lulz", you can go in to places like the CG in a cheap scout ship, to purposefully flush out those who murder you for lulz (forgive my overuse of this term).
This allows you to have the best experiences of Open - meeting other nice, peaceful CMDRs, while avoiding the worst experiences. Eventually Open itself becomes mostly PvE and consensual, balanced PvP, though there is always a risk that a new ganker will show up on the scene, so "git gud" (terrible term just like lulz) is still recommended, but Open need not be the PvP-only zone that some people insist it be.
Me personally, I do like immersive PvP and the risk of actually dying, but only where it makes sense. So I don't block people who kill me in anarchy systems, and I usually don't block people who kill me in Shinrata because I've designated that as an official "den of villainy". And at least gankers in Shinrata are targeting Elite CMDRs instead of new players engineering their first FSD. And I definitely don't block people who kill me on opposing sides of a CZ. Anyway, the beauty is that you can define your own rules and really tailor your experience.
Of course you are welcome to stay in Solo, too. I like encountering other NICE pilots in the game, and that's why I encourage people to come into Open and block those who abuse the metas and kill for lulz, because for every nasty killjoy, there are ten nice players who are a joy to interact with (even if that interaction is PvP piracy).
Last edited:
I appreciate your suggestion but it does nothing to alleviate the constant anxiety and apprehension that no matter what activity I'm doing, it could be ruined by some ganker or "pirate". I don't want to give some "salt miner" the satisfaction of ruining my game experience, which is their prime motivation in life it seems.
When I feel like enjoying the risks of dying and competitive PVP, I play other games that do this MUCH better than Elite does which are dedicated to those things (Planetside 2, TF2 etc etc).
Elite even has CQC so Open PVP isn't about skill or role playing or anything of the sort. If it was, nobody would have an issue with PVE servers or PVE flags in Open as there exists organized arena PVP options. The hate this suggestion is getting is all about protecting the gank, period.
Okay well would you PM me your block list then? I mean I rather not have to "learn" who the bad apples are by dying to them first. Give me a shortcut lol.
No, sorry, I won't do that. Personal use of the block feature is one thing, but a universal shared "blacklist" is something totally different that I don't support.
Then nothing will change. If you all shared your block lists publicly eventually the gankers would have nothing to do. They would start crying about it, and FDEV would step in and finally make a change that would maybe offer us a compromise on this.
Because they sure don't listen to us.
No they aren't, and if you think this you haven't read any of the arguments. Timezones, different platforms, different instances and different networking capabilities in general mean that it's never going to be possible for opposing factions to perfectly counter each other mano-a-mano in Open. Many people think that playing in Open should be incentivised for competitive play, but that's a separate issue.
The issue here is, the few emergent encounters that can occur in open play, centred around the stakes that can exist, would be diluted and harmed by a flag system. This has been stated clearly... (checks notes) umpteen bazillion times in this thread alone.
Last edited:
Fake if you refuse to acknowledge that I've made a single good point, then we should just stop this so it stays civil.
I'm being told that a PVE flag would "harm" these activities by denying PVP combat. But I'm already denying them that, because I'm in Solo right now. So what is being changed?
If you could look me in the eye and tell me that I'm the only one who plays most of their time in PG's or Solo, okay sure make that case. But since I know you won't do that, nothing you are saying makes sense.
This change would simply bring people out from the shadows into Open, but as they are sill not attack-able, nothing changes at all for those who seek PVP or ganking. Except maybe that as more and more people become comfortable, experienced, and familiar with Open - they turn their flags off sometimes and PVP. Did you ever consider that? Did you consider that this could be a positive change? Nope you haven't!
Please read my original posts, I'm experiencing a level of exhasperation that is medically unsafe.
People have acknowledged that it's possible to affect the BGS and powerplay from Solo and PG. We know that. It has long been the accepted norm of the game. What people are arguing against is specifically you doing that in a populated instance while invulnerable.
How can you still not understand the distinction?
I don't care that you play beyond my reach in solo/PG because it's functionally equivalent to us playing at different times of the day. I would care if you played beyond my reach in front of me in open, with no potential for interaction.
Please stop asking me to do that! We are having a conversation right here, right now. There's no need for you to demand I spend more time retreading your talking points from the past.
Oh and give me a break with the whiners about the BGS and PP. The only reason they do that, is they want to FORCE people into Open so they can gank them. The vast majority of players could give two craps about expanding systems or factions or any of that fluff. PP exists for the vast majority as a chore to get Prismatics and cool weapons, nothing more. Nobody cares what Princess Purple Hair's plans are. Maybe if there was a shred of character progression in this game, I would care more. But that's for another topic.
Oh and before someone jumps on this and tells me how wrong I am, why did they add the 4 week timer to PP???
So tired of hearing about "OMG MY BGS" from the few here that view Elite as a Real Time Strategy Sim to be honest. Even MORE tired of hearing about how evil guys like me are, in that we're "influencing" it while in solo.
You are making a distincition where no actual tangible and viable one exists. Why can't YOU understand that? Whether I'm doing Power Play in Solo, or in Open with PVP flag off, the effect is the same. Yes? Why won't you just answer that! What changes? Tell me please. What ACTUAL difference does that make?
The reason I keep asking you to "retread my talking points from the past" is because you keep saying the same things over and over without apparently understanding the points... I don't have new points to add to the discussion until you acknowledge and comprehend the points that were said in the first place, which you are consistently failing to do.
"We're having a conversation" immediately followed by "I don't care about the things you care about!" is a bit incongruous, and no, actually you're wrong here: I don't want to force anyone into open, that you would've know if you'd, y'know, actually read my original posts. And no, people playing the BGS and Powerplay don't 'just want to gank people'. That's in your imagination.
I'm so tired of you misunderstanding everything, and dismissing things you don't care about. So I guess we're even. Thousands upon thousands of people care about the BGS and Powerplay. Your experience is not the shared baseline for the entire playerbase, surprisingly enough.
OK I will tell you again, as I just did:
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
My proposal is to introduce a PVP / NoPVP FLAG in open play (with strong limitation of change to avoid exploiting). The reason behind this is that some player (like myself) play very small amounts of time due to personal matters and doesn't like to be blown-up by overpowered player pirates...
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
As it is those who don't wish to engage in this behavior with the "pirates", are just in solo or PG's already anyway. Assumption, again. You can't possibly know why everyone in SOLO or PG is playing in those modes. I'm really going to blow your mind in a minute. While those who enjoy it, as...
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
So you want to tell people how to play because you feel like gankers tell you how to play? Elite is a sandbox. Anything is a legitimate playstyle. If you want to mess up someone else's day, thats great. If they don't want their day messed up, there are ways to do so before you log in, and in...
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
By the way you would not BELIEVE how many PM's I get from other players who agree with me, but have literally been frightened into silence after being bullied by the pro-gank community on these forums. I will not be bullied. If I want to play in Open with a no-gank flag set, that's my...
PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.
So you want to tell people how to play because you feel like gankers tell you how to play? Elite is a sandbox. Anything is a legitimate playstyle. If you want to mess up someone else's day, thats great. If they don't want their day messed up, there are ways to do so before you log in, and in...
All of these posts and more have outlined the important distinction between moving the world from a private instance, and moving the world while invulnerable in a public instance. I don't know how many more ways I can say it.
I get you don't like the concept! But just stop trying to make and defend arguments where there's an actual material impact on the game. Because there's not. You just don't like the idea of ships in Open that can't be shot at, and I DO understand that. But get this: whether they are in solo not being shot at, or in open and not shootable, makes no material difference to any game outcomes.
If you can't at least give me that much, we're done here. The reason I have to keep repeating myself, is because YOU aren't acknowledging this simple obvious and logical fact.
And to be perfectly blunt, when it comes to my enjoyment of the Elite: I could care less about your "immersion" or ability to suspend disbelief. It's a flipping video game man.
It creates a tangible difference in the way the game is experienced, and would effectively kill the most enjoyable thing about the game for many people. So no, I can't "give you that much", actually. Your preferences and my preferences do not align - that's fine. You outright denying the validity or even existence of the preferences of vast swathes of the playerbase is less fine.
Yes, it is, so maybe just chill out and play in Mobius/block people you don't like, for the love of Braben.
Except I've already demonstrated that's a flat out lie. Just flat out, a lie. The fact that you refuse to address that fact, leaves me nowhere to go with you in having any meaningful debate on this topic. I cannot abide this intellectual dishonesty.
No, you haven't.
I guess I really have to dumb it down:
Me in solo delivering cargo: Not flagged for PVP.
Me in Open with PVP flag off: Not flagged for PVP.
What is being "ruined" for anyone in either of these scenarios? Nothing changes, period. And until you stop lying to me, and actually address this I will keep calling you out.
Please read my previous points.