General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Patrick_68000]

So when you say you don't want it what you really mean is you might want it but are not currently eligible to have it.

Not quite, but I'm not an anti vaxxer.

My personal situation, my environment mean that there is no emergency for me at the moment.

Maybe someday I'll take it or maybe never..

You cannot compare a person who lives in the center of a city like London or Paris and a person who lives in a village surrounded by nature.

In addition, each person is different in terms of health, commorbidities, resistance and behaviors in the daily life.

If the vaccine was available to me now, I will not take it because there is no need.

It is for this reason that the vaccine in my country is not compulsory and that we just receive an invitation, not a convocation.

 

[Stigbob]

Not quite, but I'm not an anti vaxxer.

My personal situation, my environment mean that there is no emergency for me at the moment.

Maybe someday I'll take it or maybe never..

You cannot compare a person who lives in the center of a city like London or Paris and a person who lives in a village surrounded by nature.

In addition, each person is different in terms of health, commorbidities, resistance and behaviors in the daily life.

If the vaccine was available to me now, I will not take it because there is no need.

It is for this reason that the vaccine in my country is not compulsory and that we just receive an invitation, not a convocation.

So you don't currently feel personally threatened enough to need it. You should bear in mind the virus moves at the same speed people do and the infection takes around two weeks to get serious once you have it (variable) whereas the vaccine takes three weeks to be effective.

You also need to take into account you may have no option to delay once you are eligible and if you try you'll just be removed from the list, in an automated system where getting through to a human isn't easy and you'll have a lot of competition. The European side of my family have told me the phone booking system has collapsed under the weight of calls.

Vaccines are used to help prevent serious illness, not treat an existing one. The whole point of them is preventative.

 

[Patrick_68000]

So you don't currently feel personally threatened enough to need it. You should bear in mind the virus moves at the same speed people do and the infection takes around two weeks to get serious once you have it (variable) whereas the vaccine takes three weeks to be effective.

You also need to take into account you may have no option to delay once you are eligible and if you try you'll just be removed from the list, in an automated system where getting through to a human isn't easy and you'll have a lot of competition. The European side of my family have told me the phone booking system has collapsed under the weight of calls.

Vaccines are used to help prevent serious illness, not treat an existing one. The whole point of them is preventative.

Of course i know all this.

But I'm waiting to have more hindsight on the vaccine.

In addition I expect the collective immunity in small, medium and large cities. Where the main contamination is.

In my small village I am much less exposed. And when there is the collective immunity in the cities, I will be even less.

 

[Stigbob]

Of course i know all this.

But I'm waiting to have more hindsight on the vaccine.

In addition I expect the collective immunity in small, medium and large cities. Where the main contamination is.

In my small village I am much less exposed. And when there is the collective immunity in the cities, I will be even less.

Vaccination hindsight tends to be "if they had been vaccinated they might have survived" and "wow that conspiracy theory really got some some traction with gullible types, we need to get better at educating the public and fact checking this anti-vax rubbish faster".

 

[Patrick_68000]

Vaccination hindsight tends to be "if they had been vaccinated they might have survived" and "wow that conspiracy theory really got some some traction with gullible types, we need to get better at educating the public and fact checking this anti-vax rubbish faster".

Everyone has their personal definition of hindsight.

I would like to know the medium and long term effects and of course there is only the time to have the answer.

And also with the future variants, the uncertainty remains.

 

[Stigbob]

Everyone has their personal definition of hindsight.

I would like to know the medium and long term effects and of course there is only the time to have the answer.

And also with the future variants, the uncertainty remains.

I regard hindsight as how you learn from the mistakes of history.

With vaccines that would be that the "it'll turn you into a cow" scare of 1802 was not a historic aberration but just how some of us are and that mocking anti-vaxxers is one of our proudest traditions.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I regard hindsight as how you learn from the mistakes of history.

It's quite dangerous as a method

 

[Stigbob]

It's quite dangerous as a method

Are you suggesting not learning from the mistakes of history is somehow safer ?.

 

[ianw]

Of course i know all this.

But I'm waiting to have more hindsight on the vaccine.

In addition I expect the collective immunity in small, medium and large cities. Where the main contamination is.

In my small village I am much less exposed. And when there is the collective immunity in the cities, I will be even less.

Surely though the problem is that once you feel the need to take it it may already be too late.

Look at what happens in New Zealand - famously "covid free" until it isn't. They have excellent controls and there's still no guarantee - that's why until they're vaccine protected everytime even one single infection is detected the country poops itself - the sirens go off, the shutters come down and everyone stays in. It works there but the chances of getting to their levels anytime soon in France/mainland Europe (or the UK for that matter) are so slim as to be non existent.

It only takes one infected person (possibly asymptomatic) to spark off a local outbreak and by the the time it starts showing up it's too late to contain it because by then you have at least 2 weeks worth of community spread already in the pipeline - unless where you live there are no deliveries/visits to/from outside and there is no interaction whatsoever between the people that live there.

I get that you want more "data" but if the way you feel is common where you are then you're all at greater risk if you delay the vaccine when it's available.

 

[EdzUp]

Also take into account some have been infected by touching something that has been infected by someone else. So unless you grow your own food etc there is always a negligible chance that somewhere something may pass it to you. The small village is only good id your a self contained commune with no contact with the outside world, the outside world who delivers to the local stores are the bridge to the infectious zones.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Are you suggesting not learning from the mistakes of history is somehow safer ?.

Not at all.

Regarding a new product, I am not basing myself on the past but on the future.

On something new, the hindsight is obtained by the future on concrete facts, not on the past on human behaviors and beliefs.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Also take into account some have been infected by touching something that has been infected by someone else. So unless you grow your own food etc there is always a negligible chance that somewhere something may pass it to you. The small village is only good id your a self contained commune with no contact with the outside world, the outside world who delivers to the local stores are the bridge to the infectious zones.

The virus does not survive long on surfaces.

After shopping at the supermarket, always put the goods on a table for several hours and wash your hands.

 

[Arry]

The virus does not survive long on surfaces.

After shopping at the supermarket, always put the goods on a table for several hours and wash your hands.

24 hours, is the norm, on hard surfaces.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Surely though the problem is that once you feel the need to take it it may already be too late.

Look at what happens in New Zealand - famously "covid free" until it isn't. They have excellent controls and there's still no guarantee - that's why until they're vaccine protected everytime even one single infection is detected the country poops itself - the sirens go off, the shutters come down and everyone stays in. It works there but the chances of getting to their levels anytime soon in France/mainland Europe (or the UK for that matter) are so slim as to be non existent.

It only takes one infected person (possibly asymptomatic) to spark off a local outbreak and by the the time it starts showing up it's too late to contain it because by then you have at least 2 weeks worth of community spread already in the pipeline - unless where you live there are no deliveries/visits to/from outside and there is no interaction whatsoever between the people that live there.

I get that you want more "data" but if the way you feel is common where you are then you're all at greater risk if you delay the vaccine when it's available.

There is definitely much less risk in rural areas than in cities.

And if you rigorously apply barrier gestures and avoid close social contact, you very strongly limit the risk.

 

[Patrick_68000]

24 hours, is the norm, on hard surfaces.

Yes and when I buy in the morning, if I have to touch in the evening, I wash my hands immediately after.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Not at all.

Regarding a new product, I am not basing myself on the past but on the future.

On something new, the hindsight is obtained by the future on concrete facts, not on the past on human behaviors and beliefs.

how does one base their action in the present on actions that will take place in the future

 

[Patrick_68000]

how does one base their action in the present on actions that will take place in the future

It is a personal choice in conscience

What interests me is not what the people believed two hundred years ago, but what I think in relation to my personal situation today.

 

[Arry]

Yes and when I buy in the morning, if I have to touch in the evening, I wash my hands immediately after.

The basic issue, is the same with most other things; the other people! Driving. You can be the best driver on the planet and drive all of the time, with extreme care. But it dose not stop a drunk, crushing you with a truck. It IS the other idiots.

There is one thing, that I believe, has not been mentioned here. Those that commit, deliberate acts, intending to harm others. It is a thing. Humans have been known to infect others, deliberately. The HIV history shows us, this to be a fact. In this world, where the crazies seem to be running the show, it has to be a threat and one hard to avoid, if you have a determined attacker.

 

[Arry]

how does one base their action in the present on actions that will take place in the future

Errr... I think that comes under the heading of, gambling. Which is a risky business.

 

[EdzUp]

24 hours, is the norm, on hard surfaces.

It's hotly debated from 24 hours to a month on some plastics. Banknotes are one of the worst surfaces for transmission as they are rarely cleaned