Odyssey space has "too much contrast" - breaking down the rendering of a frame

He is talking about the stars, not the darkness in which they are embedded.

That's important because it means the spacecraft is far from major sources of light contamination that make it impossible to detect any tiny light signal from the universe itself. Around Earth and the inner solar system, for example, space is filled with dust particles that get lit up by the sun, creating a diffuse glow over the entire sky. But that dust isn't a problem out where New Horizons is. Plus, out there, the sunlight is much weaker.

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If space is dark, why in game you can see this!
one.jpg


because why would you.

because end of fiscal year is near. ~30 of may?
 
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because end of fiscal year is near. ~30 of may?

...but Fdev is the beloved studio that has such a long story with the community including narrowly dodging insolvency due to successful kickstarter... they would NEVER compromise that relation just to have a good annual report for shareholders indicating increased profit!

We all must be just spoiled, entitled, cynical children to see that. We should all defend them and make appreciation posts so they won't feel bad for releasing the game at this time due to a sheer coincidence.
 
...but Fdev is the beloved studio that has such a long story with the community including narrowly dodging insolvency due to successful kickstarter... they would NEVER compromise that relation just to have a good annual report for shareholders indicating increased profit!

We all must be just spoiled, entitled, cynical children to see that. We should all defend them and make appreciation posts so they won't feel bad for releasing the game at this time due to a sheer coincidence.
If they would not do so, shareholders would be mad, and would switch elite off potentially.
 
If they would not do so, shareholders would be mad, and would switch elite off potentially.
In all honesty if this expansion will be as "fixed" as Multicrew and Power Play (which I expect it will be, damage to the engine is extensive and not financially feasible to re-do) then it would be better if the story would end with Horizons. At least we could count that the code would be open to the modders and we would get offline client.
 
Dark does not mean pitch black.

IF they will not fix it, they should rather do not merge Horizons with Odyssey.
Damn. Even in the darkest night is not so dark like in EDO.
 
there is so much more wrong with what Odyssey is doing each render frame than just mismatching image types.

another post, maybe by the op, not sure. i guess we know efficiency isn't on anyone's checklist. like at all.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/nj1f5x/odyssey_renderer_is_broken_details/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=6f061b21f1084c46bcdb9efc52d35149&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=nj1f5x
 
Regarding the original poster: no 3d professional would argue like that. Nor post something like that.
Really? And you know this, HOW? Please by all means enlighten us as to why "no 3d professional would argue like that." What do you know that the rest of do not?

Enjoy the game and wait until it gets ironed out. It's just a matter of time.
Seriously? Graphics issues are among the most annoying problems a game can have for some if not most gamers. Enjoyment just isn't in the cards for those people.

apologist2.jpg
Well - actually - bracing one's self would be pointless considering the number of them already here.
 
I just started playing it a bit in the past couple of days. When it had me adjust the gamma slider so that the image is barely visible, I could not make it barely visible after turning it all the way down, which is how I left it. Then later, I saw the interface was too dark so turned the gamma slider back to the middle.

If there are three different main products, from three teams, perhaps they might allow us to have three steps in the gamma setup so that we can adjust them all. It seems like that would not be the best idea though. What values do the three products need to synchronize, if that is how it works?

Also, the stars seem a have a little too much sparkle, though some twinkling would seem normal to an Earth dweller, but the starlight probably seems constant in space. I have an older GTX 770 so I am below spec until I can steal...I mean upgrade my card.
 
Fascinating. And hats off for the research. Does this boil down to one of the graphics passes being in the wrong colour space?
 
I've just seen this thread and the bit about the 'what pass' and the funny thing is when I was experimenting with Linux Proton a while back I was having issues with Volumetric Effects being taxing on Proton specifically. Here's what the creator of DXVK said about Frontier's "Inefficient" code:

Capture.PNG


I'm no coder myself, however this and the dodgy 'what pass' the OP describes sounds like the coding equivalent of trying to go to the corner shop by booking a flight to Mongolia and back. If the majority of the update is coded similar to this then no wonder a little bit of terrain brings GPU's to their knees.
 
I've just seen this thread and the bit about the 'what pass' and the funny thing is when I was experimenting with Linux Proton a while back I was having issues with Volumetric Effects being taxing on Proton specifically. Here's what the creator of DXVK said about Frontier's "Inefficient" code:
(...)
Such posts make me wonder if there is come court procedure to stultify FD and make them transfer all ED rights, development data, source codes etc to some entity capable of continuing this project without degrading it to unfixable mess in the process.
 
Step 17: Finally, this is where the trouble begins, as the skybox and the
stars are rendered into the same image that also holds the cockpit
geometry view. From this moment on, the values in those pixels are doomed:
No amount of clever tone mapping can bring them into comparable contrast
ranges, after they have been baked together.

View attachment 229939

Also it seems and if the skybox might already have its tones gamma mapped,
but I'm not sure about that. But if the skybox is pre gamma mapped, this
would be a mistake.

Still at this point the image still looks okayish. Barnards Loop is
clearly discernible and also the Milky Way is faintly visible. We can blow
up the tone ranges, and also bypass to see how this look with and without
gamma and different contrast.

View attachment 229940
View attachment 229941

Step 18: In this step the HUD is drawin in, element by element. Here
I only show the final result. *Of particular note is, that the HUD
elements look as they do in "normal" screenshots if gamma bypass is
enabled for the debug display.*
This means that all the HUD elements are
rendered in with the basic gamma ramp already pre applied. So if we
presume that the render target so far is supposed to be in linear RGB,
then the HUD elements will inevitably get gamma transformed to a higher
power, which is not correct; the result will be a far larger contrast on
the HUD elements with things being either really bright, or really dark.

View attachment 229942
and here with an additional subsequent gamma transform
View attachment 229943

After this the final tonemapping pass is applied. And this is where the
digestive end product hits the rotary air impeller
. In the pixelshader for
this tonemapping step is applied what could be understood as a gamma
transform. The resulting image, in linear RGB already looks as the
presumably desired end result. It still looks okay, the HUD is readable,
albeit a little bit overcontrast and oversaturated, we can still clearly
see Barnards Loop and a hint of the Milky Way. I'd not deem this
"perfect", but perfectly acceptable within the constraints of a product
release.
View attachment 229944
However, because the image is untyped, the graphic system will
apply a gamma transform of its own, with the familiar, unpleasant result.
View attachment 229946
One thing that stands out about this tonemapping step is a constant found
within the pixel shader: 64500. That value is awefully close to 65535,
i.e. 2\*\*16-1. My guess is that a (junior?) developer had trouble with
the value ranges, dumped an image, took its maximum value x, punched 1/x
into their calculator and rounded to the next multiple of 100 (why 100 and
not 128?).
View attachment 229947
Now remember back to the first step, the cubemap: That thing looks good.
And it's aligned with the ship, so clearly this cubemap is not
prerendered, but rendered somwhere else. So these frame captures don't
tell the whole story, there are even more renderers involved there,
operating independently.


Among "experienced" grey beard developers it's common knowledge, that the
code structure of a program reflects the organizational structure of the
entity that developed it. These frame command dumps are a reflection of
the code structure that produce them. So by second order indirection this
allows me to take a few guesses. The whole thing reeks of a communications
problem. Within the generation of a frame there seem to be (at least)
three different "teams" working on the same thing: The people who develop
the astronomical renderer, the people who develop the ship's cockpit
renderer and the UI renderer (which produces that HUD) team, and I got the
impression, that there's a severe lack of communication between them. It's
at the interface between them, where the mishaps occur.
They need to hire you.
 
Doesn't look like they fixed this with the patch, but they did adjust the lighting in some places so I guess this is just working as intended.
 
Well I say that because what would be the point of making small lighting tweaks when the renderer is just fundamentally doing it wrong? Fixing it so the frame is actually rendered correctly needs to be done first otherwise any changes you make will be based on an incorrect final image and will have to be changed again once the renderer is fixed.
 
Well I say that because what would be the point of making small lighting tweaks when the renderer is just fundamentally doing it wrong? Fixing it so the frame is actually rendered correctly needs to be done first otherwise any changes you make will be based on an incorrect final image and will have to be changed again once the renderer is fixed.
Your reasoning is plausible.
And I would admit you are probably right in normal circumstances.

But this is FD, so I don't think so :)))
 
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