A Call For Frontier To Put VR Legs On The Upcoming Road Map

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CMDR JENCK

CMDR JENCK
[VR] DDM_Reaper20 said:
I absolutely disagree. I am an adult, 49 years old. I can decide what is best for me, and I decide what my kids are allowed to play -- and how. I positively resent being patronised by others, particularly when those are not even physicians -- and even then, it is MY life.

(If we start down that road, where does it stop? Heck, you could make a point of abolishing alcohol, smokes, dangerous sports . . . the list is endless, all for the "improvement of QOL." Problem is, by taking that away, you whittle away at freedom of choice. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't take any drugs . . . but I love to play Elite Dangerous VR. That's my vice, my choice.

One thing is that they cannot realise it in OD; another entirely is that they try to patronise their players. The first one I understand, the second option would earn a ginormous middle finger (and the instant closing of my wallet) from me.

Sorry, I get anxious about such things. The way to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that...)
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Absolutely right.
Im 46 and a Just VR User , i dont even have a monitor , my tv is using just for backup.
If someone say that VR is not so important then try it for at least a couple of hours , and if you feel comfortable then you never go back ,why should do that ? , if for somebody VR its not a point then or just get sick and didnt allow enough time to accomodate, or its not a hardcore simmer,or else :D
For sure my biggest annoyance was the huge stutters what i had , even in horizon on ultra everithing was smooth, i coudnt notice so much graphical difference to cause these stutters.
If thats the EDO , and thay could not fix it in the future then its not worth the whole thing a hat with crap.
No VR for me in EDO from frontier it looks like an intentional kickass for VR users .
The future is in VR for sure .no matter how some people are against , just like today everyone has a smartphone .
So as i refunded ,i dont know if there will be more wallet opening from my side to frontier , heck that once i was so helpfull and wanted to help devs realy with my soul also , and preordered the creppy EDO , and thats what i got ... :(
I could understand the stutters , ok it was too early release thay apologise for , ok ,may devs will fix in time , but the thing that i get angry is that Frontier Crap off the VR support and dont even take in account in the future roadmap.
Ok . Again i cryed my eyes so its enough . :)

...................\...|.../
...\_O_m...---..F..---
.......|.........../..RONTI€R
..../ ...\_
 
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VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Franc Kaos said:
Fdev to English: fuggedaboutit!
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Pretty much what I've just said to Sally...
CMDR JENCK said:
Absolutely right.
Im 46 and a Just VR User , i dont even have a monitor , my tv is using just for backup.
If someone say that VR is not so important then try it for at least a couple of hours , and if you feel comfortable then you never go back ,why should do that ? , if for somebody VR its not a point then or just get sick and didnt allow enough time to accomodate, or its not a hardcore simmer,or else :D
For sure my biggest annoyance was the huge stutters what i had , even in horizon on ultra everithing was smooth, i coudnt notice so much graphical difference to cause these stutters.
If thats the EDO , and thay could not fix it in the future then its not worth the whole thing a hat with crap.
No VR for me in EDO from frontier it looks like an intentional kickass for VR users .
The future is in VR for sure .no matter how some people are against , just like today everyone has a smartphone .
So as i refunded ,i dont know if there will be more wallet opening from my side to frontier , heck that once i was so helpfull and wanted to help devs realy with my soul also , and preordered the creppy EDO , and thats what i got ... :(
I could understand the stutters , ok it was too early release thay apologise for , ok ,may devs will fix in time , but the thing that i get angry is that Frontier Crap off the VR support and dont even take in account in the future roadmap.
Ok . Again i cryed my eyes so its enough . :)

...................\...|.../
...\_O_m...---..F..---
.......|.........../..RONTI€R
..../ ...\_
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Picking up on the sentence I've highlighted, I often think of people who DO NOT think VR is the future of gaming as being like those who in the nineties were telling us "this intanet malarky will never catch on, not when I can just fax something or look up a catalogue without having to boot up a computer." Or like someone in the early eighties insisting that having any more than 1 colour on a computer display was a waste of time, and everyone should just get a display that has their favourite colour in it, cyan, green, white, red or amber...

In other VR campaign news, I've just chimed in on the roadmap thread with something that might warrant popcorn:

ANNOUNCEMENT - Elite Dangerous | Odyssey: Roadmap

You know what? Despite the whole 'Odyssey launch is (still) a bit of a dumpster fire / community is in uproar' thing - I'd just like to thank the CM's for sticking with it - you've been stars in the face of some quite strong negativity, well done. I'd also like to commend the whole community for...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
VR Jay Le Chardon said:
Pretty much what I've just said to Sally...

Picking up on the sentence I've highlighted, I often think of people who DO NOT think VR is the future of gaming as being like those who in the nineties were telling us "this intanet malarky will never catch on, not when I can just fax something or look up a catalogue without having to boot up a computer." Or like someone in the early eighties insisting that having any more than 1 colour on a computer display was a waste of time, and everyone should just get a display that has their favourite colour in it, cyan, green, white, red or amber...

In other VR campaign news, I've just chimed in on the roadmap thread with something that might warrant popcorn:

ANNOUNCEMENT - Elite Dangerous | Odyssey: Roadmap

You know what? Despite the whole 'Odyssey launch is (still) a bit of a dumpster fire / community is in uproar' thing - I'd just like to thank the CM's for sticking with it - you've been stars in the face of some quite strong negativity, well done. I'd also like to commend the whole community for...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
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I'd really be genuinely surprised if VR ever takes the place of gaming on a monitor simply because VR requires you to wear a device over your face and have reduced situational awareness of your environment. It's not in any way analogous to the examples you cited (and I lived through them as a gamer so I'm talking from experience). That's not to say it won't become more popular and widespread but I don't ever see it as being the default.

That's not a point about Elite or any of the drama around it, just to be clear. It's a point about VR.
 
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VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Red Anders said:
I'd really be genuinely surprised if VR ever takes the place of gaming on a monitor simply because VR requires you to wear a device over your face and have reduced situational awareness of your environment. It's not in any way analogous to the examples you cited (and I lived through them as a gamer so I'm talking from experience). That's not to say it won't become more popular and widespread but I don't ever see it as being the default.

That's not a point about Elite or any of the drama around it, just to be clear. It's a point about VR.
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Fair enough Anders, it may not become the ipso facto mode of gaming, but I think we both agree, that outside the little space opera bout VR in Odyssey that is playing out on the forums just now, that VR will be a significant part of the future of gaming?

I mean, generation on generation graphics quality and or screen size has gotten better and gotten bigger combining to make a more immersive gaming experience. To me, VR is the ultimate expression of that, with high res headsets offering a gaming experience unimaginable a decade ago.

Why do I think that? I remember as a kid playing on a commodore 64 with a 14" CRT television as the screen. That then became an amiga 500 which was capable of displaying onto the same TV, which later got accompanied by an old DOS PC* on a proper monitor, albeit relatively low resolution - but better than the TV. That very quickly paved the way for a Pentium PC, that justified a larger higher resolution 15" 1024x768 monitor and consequently was oh so much more realistic graphics than the a500. The original pentium box was replaced by a pentium 2, which got a matrox G400max giving graphics a MAHOOSIVE jump. As the card could handle more I bought it a 17" 1600*1200 res monitor which brings about one of my most scary gaming experiences....

...I was playing late at night, with the lights off, in a darkened room, with monitor so close to my face as to make opticians wink so I was really "in the game"... I was playing the original "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" shooting some end of level boss in a graveyard, using grave stones as cover. This monster thingumy was lobbing screaming skulls at me, and i'm shooting the heck out of it with everything I had, grenades, machine gun etc, and it's going to the wire, both our "health" bars were dropping perilously low, just a few more shots, when I got snagged by this screaming skull demon the monster had lobbed at me, my field of vision is full of screaming skull, then silent blackness! I froze, the silence eerie, the darkness engulfing, "OH MY GOD! - I'm dead!! but it's dark, no gates, fiery or pearly? Dang - I'm in Purgatory!" raced across my mind. But as my eyes started to adjust to the new darkness, I could see familiar things in the room faintly illuminated by the smallest amount of orange street lighting peaking through a gap in the curtains.... Then it dawned on me, I wasn't in purgatory having been killed by that end of level boss in a graveyard near Castle Wolfenstein, but my dodgy electric fan heater had tripped the circuit breaker again..... 20 years later, nearly every gaming experience in VR is that immersive.

[super geeky vintage computer stuff] The old dos box PC I refer to was a curious little thing - it was an almost proprietary computer, called an RM Nimbus, designed for the academic market, that was just about by the skin of its teeth PC compatible. It was slightly more advanced than some PC's having an 80186 processor, whereas the PC standards went 8086 and straight to the 80286 skipping the '186 entirely. But as it was an 86 chip, it could run most dos applications, including windows 1.0. Because it was such a curious little thing I kept it for safekeeping, and in 2018 arrangements were made for it's new home in a computing history museum.
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
A 'significant part of the future of gaming'? Yeah sure, I wouldn't even seek to argue that it's not significant today, let alone in the future. I was only taking issue with the idea that it would one day replace gaming on a 2D screen as the standard offering - I just don't see that happening.

Oh and for what it's worth, I usually play late at night in a room with the lights off now :D
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
We agree that in the future it is a significant part of gaming, that is a given, we aren't arguing over that one, we agree on it.

Closer to home, I don' know if you'd agree with me when I say it would be foolish for Frontier to deprecate VR now, as it would put them really behind the 8 ball when they need to reinstate it later on? And that is me looking holistically at the bigger picture, not just spouting off "coz my toazees hav been troddun on". It's as flawed a decision, and equally detrimental to the games longer term health as the decision to limit Odyssey to last gen consoles not have any plans to port Odyssey to PS5 and XBX platforms.

As for VR being significant now? I think it is already a significant part of gaming. The reasons I think that is that there are tens of millions of headsets out there already in customers hands, with a buoyant market meaning millions more are finding their way into players hands year on year. Sure in the steam stats VR is only 2.31% - but that still a couple of million headsets. And that couple of million is only steam VR on PC, and doesn't include any headsets that are purely on Oculus' ecosystem, like my rift used to be from 2016 through 2019. That steam stat doesn't include any of the PSVR headsets out there, or any of the millions of standalone headsets that can be pressganged into PC usage as well as running games entirely independently. To me, anything that can be counted in the millions is inherently significant, ergo VR is already significant.
 

valbarr

V
VR Jay Le Chardon said:
Pretty much what I've just said to Sally...

Picking up on the sentence I've highlighted, I often think of people who DO NOT think VR is the future of gaming as being like those who in the nineties were telling us "this intanet malarky will never catch on, not when I can just fax something or look up a catalogue without having to boot up a computer." Or like someone in the early eighties insisting that having any more than 1 colour on a computer display was a waste of time, and everyone should just get a display that has their favourite colour in it, cyan, green, white, red or amber...

In other VR campaign news, I've just chimed in on the roadmap thread with something that might warrant popcorn:

ANNOUNCEMENT - Elite Dangerous | Odyssey: Roadmap

You know what? Despite the whole 'Odyssey launch is (still) a bit of a dumpster fire / community is in uproar' thing - I'd just like to thank the CM's for sticking with it - you've been stars in the face of some quite strong negativity, well done. I'd also like to commend the whole community for...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
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its always been the same, when games were all 2d, and 3d games started coming out, people were feeling motion sickness and saying 3d games were not proper games.
all thru history apparently when the printing presses first started and books became affordable, people used to complain that everyone was getting addicted to reading.
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Reems said:
I believe the number to be closer to 30%.
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I concur with that, for numerous reasons, but the 2.31% steam stats keeps getting brought up. However, the sources I often cite are:

A reddit poll of 1627 participants found the following:
  • ~40% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least sometimes.
  • ~28% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least equally as in 2D.
  • ~16% of the respondents stated that they play ED exclusively in VR.
A survey of ~17,800 participants originally dug up by @[VR] DDasterdly & @VR Golgot that the flight sim community more broadly sits at around 17% HMD ownership.
1624567531308.png


A poll by Obsidian Ant ~8 months ago that suggests 36% have a VR headset, and 17% intend to get one:
1624567376532.png


A similar poll by Exigeous which shows 24% of players use VR:

1624568561602.png

And I've kept this Washington Post article up my sleeve, which states that while VR is on the ascendancy, despite 73% of american gamers own a console, only 29% own a VR headset:

So yeah, ~30% seems to be about right given it is approximately the mean across all those sources.
 

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Erei

Erei
VR Jay Le Chardon said:
I concur with that, for numerous reasons, but the 2.31% steam stats keeps getting brought up. However, the sources I often cite are:

A reddit poll of 1627 participants found the following:
  • ~40% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least sometimes.
  • ~28% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least equally as in 2D.
  • ~16% of the respondents stated that they play ED exclusively in VR.
A survey of ~17,800 participants originally dug up by @[VR] DDasterdly & @VR Golgot that the flight sim community more broadly sits at around 17% HMD ownership.
View attachment 244000

A poll by Obsidian Ant ~8 months ago that suggests 36% have a VR headset, and 17% intend to get one:
View attachment 243998

A similar poll by Exigeous which shows 24% of players use VR:

View attachment 244005
And I've kept this Washington Post article up my sleeve, which states that while VR is on the ascendancy, despite 73% of american gamers own a console, only 29% own a VR headset:

So yeah, ~30% seems to be about right given it is approximately the mean across all those sources.
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While I support VR in Elite, even though I don't own one, those polls are entirely biased. They are not neutral in their target. I don't post in Reddit for example, do'nt even have an account. Didn't participate in Exigeous poll and so on.

They are specific in their audience, making it biased. Fdev have the number, and they are accurate. We don't.
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Flimley said:
It would be excellent. But i hold no hope whatsoever. Odyssey is the beginning of the end.

Flimley
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This is bad, I've quoted that post in the roadmap thread, stating:

This is Flimely for jings crivens sakes, the forumite behind the old trope of "Hooray for Flimely!" Pity he's now saying we're doomed...

What will be said or done to give Flimely some hope again?
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CMDR Scholesy

C
Red Anders said:
I'd really be genuinely surprised if VR ever takes the place of gaming on a monitor simply because VR requires you to wear a device over your face and have reduced situational awareness of your environment. It's not in any way analogous to the examples you cited (and I lived through them as a gamer so I'm talking from experience). That's not to say it won't become more popular and widespread but I don't ever see it as being the default.

That's not a point about Elite or any of the drama around it, just to be clear. It's a point about VR.
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Totally disagree, as a VR player I keep on top of the tech and if you could see some of the new designs coming you'd realise they will be no bigger than sun glasses in the near future. VR now is like a huge CRT monitor back in the day, but it didn't take that long for super slim high res lcd screens to become the norm. Unless you still play on a CRT then you can't deny it. You really think wearable tech isn't the future, we will all look back and laugh at those old fashioned monitors that everyone used to use LOL.
 

CMDR Scholesy

C
Erei said:
While I support VR in Elite, even though I don't own one, those polls are entirely biased. They are not neutral in their target. I don't post in Reddit for example, do'nt even have an account. Didn't participate in Exigeous poll and so on.

They are specific in their audience, making it biased. Fdev have the number, and they are accurate. We don't.
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Really, because you don't post on reddit it's biased?? I'm exclusively VR in all games but I don't post on reddit so is it biased towards pancake?
 

Erei

Erei
CMDR Scholesy said:
Really, because you don't post on reddit it's biased?? I'm exclusively VR in all games but I don't post on reddit so is it biased towards pancake?
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So what, do you really think that 83% of ed players are owning and using a VR heasdset ?

This post was made on Reddit, a specific place, with absolutely no regard for the context. For all we know, it was linked in VR subrreddit and whatnot, increasing the bias toward VR.

I'm sorry, but if we had 80% of player playing ED with VR, you'd have more than a bunch of posts on the main forum. 4/5player is not something small.

Yet, there we are.

Throwing random graphs and hyperbole is not helping your argument. Fdev have the numbers. We don't. The end.
 

Cmdr Bracher

Cmdr Bracher
Erei said:
So what, do you really think that 83% of ed players are owning and using a VR heasdset ?

This post was made on Reddit, a specific place, with absolutely no regard for the context. For all we know, it was linked in VR subrreddit and whatnot, increasing the bias toward VR.

I'm sorry, but if we had 80% of player playing ED with VR, you'd have more than a bunch of posts on the main forum. 4/5player is not something small.

Yet, there we are.

Throwing random graphs and hyperbole is not helping your argument. Fdev have the numbers. We don't. The end.
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Ha ha Read the info properly first might help. It says 83 percent don't own a VR headset.... Not do. 😂
 

Franc Kaos

Franc Kaos
VR Jay Le Chardon said:
the decision to limit Odyssey to last gen consoles not have any plans to port Odyssey to PS5 and XBX platforms.
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This to me says more than the half <redacted> VR attempt because it means they're not looking at the future of ED as moving onward onto more powerful platforms, whereas with VR they already had the cockpit stuff knocked up in two days by some dude who no longer works there (and I'm guessing he wasn't replaced by another VR developer), so the on foot stuff would have to reach a certain professional level with controllers etc to maintain the VR label and was probably the first thing kicked to the kerb...
I'm kind'a hoping they left in the kludgey hacky camera VR bits for us* to knock something together.
Flimley said:
It would be excellent. But i hold no hope whatsoever. Odyssey is the beginning of the end.

Flimley
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DOOOOOM!!!!! :alien: and o7

* and when I say us I mean those far cleverer than me
 
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