Suggestion: Rework anarchies

Greetings CMDRs. o7

I know that many non anarchist pilots don't know, how hard is being as an anarchist. We must challenge constant attacks (BGS also) from other pilots and we even don't know, do we raise influence in case of BGS things due to it. Our situation are worsed, when mercenary missions payment was increased and farther worsening our situation was affected by odyssey add on. From now in a systems with landable planets we must face with constants bust state and civil unrests state. I'll not intent to stay quiet like many anarchists, while our systems are weakened every day. I see, that our systems needs changes... serious changes.

But before I get down to business, I've received messages from some of unhappy anarchists and chiefs. For their safety, I've not mention their faction:
  • "We must need changes. Any other governments get changes, which makes them stronger than before. Why we, anarchists have suffer from our oppressors? We must go with them, not pulling back!" - anarchist
  • "Our systems should be paradise for pirates, but for now, this looks bad, even if we're prosperous. Our black markets should help us, but we afraid use it." - anarchist from prosperous anarchy system
  • "Our systems is everyday attacked. We must still defend our systems before this greedy corporations. They wants erase our systems from galaxy. Help us before it will be too late!" - chief from a often attacked system.
  • "Archon Delaine don't accept our offer to becoming allies. We moved there, hoping that Delaine accept our presence. But we're still attacked by him and by his people. If nothing changes, then we won't have room to establish new anarchies and soon we must rise rebellion." - chief from system belonging to Delaine
  • "Greetings. We have under our control refinery and extraction outposts. We offer good payment missions, but we can't offer smuggle missions. We can't offer any illegal goods from those outposts, so we must relying on piracy missions only. Somebody, help us resolve this problem!" - chief, which have refinery and extraction outposts under his control

Those and other problems, which I heard, makes them that anarchies really needs changes or reworks. By changes I won't mean only few small changes. We need more serious changes, which helps them get up in their systems or those, which they want to control. After Odyssey released, some of the states in systems with landable planets is unreachable for anarchy factions.
And I know, that some of the changes, which I propose, may be probably corrected, but those changes should be necessary, before it will be too late and we're erased from galaxy.

About changes, which would be needed for anarchies:
- Missions: Add additional three new missions and one follow on mission to anarchies:
  • Illegal (salvage commodity) mission (Same as for illegal black box mission, but this can include more illegal salvage (including hostages and politician prisoners). BGS effect is same as for illegal black box mission.
  • Fence mission - Alternate version of delivery mission, which means transport stolen goods to target station (outposts included) - optional objectives is same as for smuggle missions (since we transport illegal (stolen) goods), time required to complete this mission: 1 day.
    BGS effect: Fence mission to anarchy faction (more often) - reputation and influence for both sides increase, economy or security also increase (depending of cargo).
    Fence mission to non-anarchy faction: Only anarchy faction gain positives, second side receive no reputation, and influence, economy or security states is decreased due to posed as an illegal action.
  • Heist ship mission (require Odyssey) - This mission requires you to steal properly ship from NPC. It's combat ranked mission, so the higher combat rank means stealing more advanced ships from NPC. First we must breach ship security before we can enter. In lower ranks, NPC will be often alone. In higher ranks however, will be often have guards. Since this action is highly illegal, so after entering to someone ship, you'll get bounty (bounty will be worth 1/20 value of stolen ship). After stealing a ship, you must return to station/planet port to mission giver with this ship undetected by security ships. BGS effect: Reputation, influence and economy increase for anarchy faction, reputation, influence and economy decreases for targeted faction.*
* This could be also added for normal activity for Odyssey add on. Medium and large ships will be have more advanced security to breach than small ships. Selling stolen ship will be always worthing 1/8 of base ship costs, regardless do bounty will be cleaned or not.

Follow on mission: Assassinate president: (target name) (This could be instead of second assassinate politician/venerable general follow on mission) - This follow on mission pays three times more than assassinate politician mission, of course also is counted as an illegal action, and BGS effect is also tripled. Target ship for higher combat rank is Federal Corvette or Imperial Cutter.

- All other factions will be have massacre pirates/assassinate pirate lord against all factions, not only anarchy factions. Reason is always similar: massacre and pirate lord missions is often targeted to anarchy factions, while lawful factions are often 'clean', while we know that they also hide wanted ships. Same with combat missions in Odyssey, which mainly targets anarchy factions.

Powerplay: Add anarchies as an favourable to Delaine and in some other PP (for example, to Yuri Grom) as an their unfavourable. From here, I wish that they make properly article in Galnet (by for example: "Archon Delaine makes an alliance with anarchies!" or similar one)

BGS effect for anarchy factions (missions): Piracy missions should pay two to three more times for all effort (or have less cargo required for this mission), and their effect on BGS (influence especially) should be tripled after completed, due to their long-time consuming effort to complete. Massacre civilian missions should drop way less reputation per kill on non-anarchy systems and also BGS effect should be tripled after completed (influence included). All rest of their illegal missions should be doubled after completed (influence included)

Anarchy stations: Change commodity market to open market, where we can buy and sell goods (illegal included). Selling illegal goods here counts as an selling to black market, but for positive, not negative. Due to it, black market will be closed to the open market thing, but selling illegal goods in open market still will be counts to requirement for The Dweller engineer

Mission boards: If anarchy faction controls station, change "mission board" to "criminal board" with changed some rules:
  • All missions here is tagged as an illegal*
  • Non-anarchy factions will be have less missions than anarchy factions
  • All illegal missions pays 1.5 times more from anarchies and cutted by 1/4 to all other factions.
  • If you have bounty or notoriety, payment for missions to anarchy factions here is further increases (this depends on your current bounty and notoriety). Additionally, if you start fence mission to non anarchy stations (mentioned above) from there (if you have notoriety), you have guarantee protection against station attack (unless ship scans is completed or you'll not attack a station)
  • During assassination/wet work missions, which starts from anarchy station, you gain protection from gaining notoriety in mission unidentified signal source in non anarchy systems and, in this signal sources, security system link is shutted.
*There's some exceptional states, which legal missions will be allowed in criminal board. Those states are: Outbreak, Election, Civil War and War.

- Crime and Punishment: As an others, this system needs rework. Lot's of those changes was mentioned by Scree, but I could add few additional things.
For example, while dropping to station, security ships will be in various formations with various numbers (depending on system security). Additionally, if commander leaves from a station (by a wake), security ships will be still there in current formation for 15 minutes after leaving.
Criminals acquire ability to bribe cops or security ships for 10-15 seconds after commiting a crime (BGS effect: influence and security drop to system controller, since corrupted cops or security ships turn a blind eyes of the crimes).
They can also intimidating victim after commiting a crime to stop them from a submitting a crime, which can cause clearing bounty to the victim faction and makes security ships not arrive to a crime scene. (BGS effect: influence and reputation drop for a victim faction, since intimidating people makes them less likely to submit next crimes by them).
Pirates can also convince victim to drop cargo without forcing them to drop it by attacking a victim ship.
That's only example, but I know that this aspect still needs more changes.

Anarchy bounties: For them, they need definitely alternative ways for claiming a bounties (or rather, making for them reverse bounty by for example killing cops or civilians). Those 'bounties' can raise anarchy influence and security. We need more ways for claiming it, since anarchies are the only ones, which in normal systems they don't be able claim bounties in normal ways, which any faction often use it.

Anarchy systems: Those systems needs also changes by for example, adding for them ships with lucrative cargo to piracy. Those ships will be have various cargo ready to rob (even can have hostages, politician prisoners or other 'less legal' cargo). Of course all depends in system economy and current state.

Others things for anarchies: I'm thinking, how anarchies are doing in their systems. Why anarchies can't speak or make comments in newsfeeds in Galnet? Why even anarchists are not mentioned in Galnet? This also could be changed, since not all anarchists are dangerous mens and some of them have great potential. They also can share with some news about their 'projects' or investments or even spread their own propaganda in Galnet.

There's still lot of changes, which I haven't mentioned. Yeah, there was a lot of reading, but at least those examples changes may save us, anarchists from a forgotten.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like anarchies are working like actual anarchies to me.

All jokes aside, the less savory characters among us do need some TLC. I wouldn't hold my breath on FDev doing anything other than adding more grind and further unbalancing the game, though.
 
Anarchy; 1) a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems. 2) absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

Sounds like it's working as intended.
 
All jokes aside, the less savory characters among us do need some TLC. I wouldn't hold my breath on FDev doing anything other than adding more grind and further unbalancing the game, though.
All needs anarchies. If no anarchy systems or stations presents, where notoriety pilot can hide without worry for ATR? I see, what happens to our systems, especially after Odyssey add on. We're defending rest of our systems instead making new anarchies. Anarchies began to be forgotten government. And we all know that distance between next anarchies are still increased.

If FDev do nothing about still decreasing numbers of anarchy systems (due to constant attacks), then all of us must face consequences of it, regardless do he's anarchist or not. That's inspired me to write this suggestion. Changes for them must be needed, otherwise all anarchies may disappear due to lack of changes.
 
@Ruurka Regarding changes, I mostly agree with your points, altough I think a solution can be simplier than you are suggesting.

And I like your statement @varonica which is the widely known definition of anarchy by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, but this also means - by definition and if working as intented - that practically most actions (like the ones in ED) would not have any influence on the social order (INF) in an anarchy, because there is nobody, no political or social system, that cares!

This in mind, basically inhabitated anarchies have been working wrong in ED eversince. Additionally, changes implied with EDO have worsened this.

Additionally, I believe, [ED] anarchies are the way they are (and are not going to be changed) at the moment, as they provide a more comfortable way for all cmdrs to get stuff without being send to detention, if they fail. Maybe this has been a tactical/political decission by FDev to balance and ease the grind to get mats for upgrading on-foot equipment, as well as countering complaints about other issues of EDO. Serving the majority by sacrificing some anarchists...

Imho, the easiest way to balance this would be to disconnect INF from certain actions against anarchies, especially bounties and missions without any social impact.

Like this, cmdrs would still be able to get mats and accomplish missions in anarchies without illogically changing INF there. If someone wants to overthrow an anarchy, they'd have to do other things.

In real life, have 'bounties' and 'missions' ever really changed anything anywhere? No, look at 19th century Wild West and 2021 Afghanistan.
Only trade, social measures and time can.
 
Last edited:
A quick update on this issue:

After having had spend approximately 11 weeks to maintain majority in our home system, everyone in our small squadron was absolutely fed up with this monotone, stupid gameplay, whilst we basically missed everything else happening in the galaxy, and we gave up. A corporative NPC faction (probably supported by random Cmdrs) took over a few days ago.

However, life goes on, but then the most annoying detail of all happened: While over the last months there had only been offered an average of 5 - 8 (space)missions (not to mention any with INF+++++) during our rule, now we get around 30 with plenty of INF and Cr.

If this works as intented: Why?
 
Non-controlling factions getting better missions (because they may only be able to get influence from missions) would make some sense if intentional.

But I suspect the real reason will be more complicated than that.
 
In not populated system on carrier.
I was mean for a pilot, who still don't have a carrier and still hoards for them. Those pilots especially needs anarchy systems.
And even, if he finds a carrier, which allows notoriety pilot to land, he don't be sure, do carrier may soon start deport to another system, while commander may still have 7+ points of notoriety.
And remember that not all commanders with notoriety have SRV (for console players, due to they still don't have access to Odyssey add on)
 
And remember that not all commanders with notoriety have SRV (for console players, due to they still don't have access to Odyssey add on)
What can I say ...don't be criminal :D I never had more then 2. And even then - jump to system, where issuer is absent and wait 4 hours.
 
What can I say ...don't be criminal :D
Remember about, that my suggestion is for making anarchy systems better places for them. I don't regret being a criminal, which gives me more fun than non criminal gameplay.
If they only make anarchy systems better places, then criminal gameplay will gives even more fun.
 
Remember about, that my suggestion is for making anarchy systems better places for them. I don't regret being a criminal, which gives me more fun than non criminal gameplay.
If they only make anarchy systems better places, then criminal gameplay will gives even more fun.
Well, I have my fun too, wipe anarchy settlement 10 times per evening for mats :D That is their problem they don't pay for security forces.
Want be free? Ok. No problem, just expect somebody to come.
That's why Wild West ended fast.
 
Well, I have my fun too, wipe anarchy settlement 10 times per evening for mats :D That is their problem they don't pay for security forces.

It's also your problem when there are no more anarchy systems or settlements left for you to have your fun in. Don't mistake a significant and acknowledged BGS balancing issue for an IRL ideological debate.
 
That's why Wild West ended fast.

And yet we're still making and consuming media about it because it is an evocative and entertaining setting. It's also regularly transposed into sci-fi.

You think you're being clever (along with the other people who've misrepresented anarchy as a political ideal as if it were relevant to begin with) but you're missing the point entirely, this is a videogame and prior to Odyssey the level of bias between BGS governments was present but manageable.

It'd be better to contribute to the debate on a design level not make a judgement based on some malformed concept of realism that was never part of the developer's plan. This is going to be everyone's problem eventually.
 
Last edited:
It'd be better to contribute to the debate on a design level not make a judgement based on some malformed concept of realism that was never part of the developer's plan. This is going to be everyone's problem eventually.
Realism is top priority in this game. And those small things like insta heal by medpack is game breaking IMO.
...as for anarchy factions, you can always do legal things for them. For example if they starve - bring full carrier of food to their market. In odyssey it is really easy as you can trade with ground settlements which has 1 faction only. Yes I know ...small pad only :) But I do such trades last 2 weeks, with 64t ship. Transferred 5000t in 2 ways. And faction is happy with public holidays etc, no missions done.
Buy from them what they sell most, sell them what they need most -> rises influence 30% to 40% in couple cutters total with like 150000 population.
 
Last edited:
Realism is top priority in this game. And those small things like insta heal by medpack is game breaking IMO.
...as for anarchy factions, you can always do legal things for them. For example if they starve - bring full carrier of food to their market. In odyssey it is really easy as you can trade with ground settlements which has 1 faction only. Yes I know ...small pad only :) But I do such trades last 2 weeks, with 64t ship. Transferred 5000t in 2 ways. And faction is happy with public holidays etc, no missions done.
If realism is top priority, most anarchy factions should be more accurately labelled as "cartels" or "crime families", and you can bet that the wholesale slaughter of cartel members wouldn't go unpunished IRL. Also you're wrong that realism is top priority, a fully realistic version of Elite would be objectively terrible as a piece of entertainment media.

I know how to support anarchy factions, I've been doing it since 2015. Legal activities do not sufficiently offset the huge negative bias coming in from mat grinders such as yourself setting up camp in our systems (also, how realistic is that? 10 runs of a settlement per night to pick up some circuit boards and assorted cat pictures? Seems like there's a double standard at work here.)
 
(also, how realistic is that? 10 runs of a settlement per night to pick up some circuit boards and assorted cat pictures? Seems like there's a double standard at work here.)
I account that as time-difference 8-0. They live slower then me god-like being :D Meaning, 24 hrs later this settlement is dead finally. So my day equals to their 1 minute.
....I don't like that too, but can't be fixed in MMO.
 
Regardless of how many times you're doing it, the activity in and of itself is laughably unrealistic. If I wanted to get a new pair of shoes I wouldn't go to a hamlet in Switzerland and murder the occupants in order to steal their candy crush accounts and sell them to my local barkeep who would then allow me to visit some woman who'll upgrade my flip-flips into a pair of Nikes...

You're skating on very thin ice with this realism angle, my friend. Since May the balance of the background simulation has been dramatically thrown out of whack (and acknowledged as unintentional by Frontier) and saying 'haha, lol that's just cause anarchies are like that IRL!' is an objectively ridiculous response in context.
 
negative bias coming in from mat grinders
Regardless of how many times you're doing it, the activity in and of itself is laughably unrealistic. If I wanted to get a new pair of shoes I wouldn't go to a hamlet in Switzerland and murder the occupants in order to steal their candy crush accounts and sell them to my local barkeep who would then allow me to visit some woman who'll upgrade my flip-flips into a pair of Nikes...

You're skating on very thin ice with this realism angle, my friend. Since May the balance of the background simulation has been dramatically thrown out of whack and saying 'haha, lol that's just cause anarchies are like that IRL!' is an objectively ridiculous response.
...let's put aside why I'm multi billionaire can't just order everything ready on plant ... I don't like that as well :D
....I do scan people prior landing shoot, they all have bounties. So those kills rise BGS in fact. However, you can't force everybody do that.
Any way, mat farmers should be out soon, at least I stopped because got all full and all I need at 5.
 
Back
Top Bottom