I'm sure I did some as I had access to SD from the start... I wouldn't have been Elite back then tho... Went off to get combat Elite in CZs mainly...
@Emperor So I guess you were a Founder (kickstart backer >£150)?
If so, and are now Elite, have you tried again to get those missions at Jameson's Memorial?

Edit: Kickstarter backers >£85 had access provided to Shinrarta Dezhra from the outset, but only >£150 became "founding members"

Edit2: Just noticed that for the kickstart >£85 the phrasing was "Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR". SO the whole system was called "founder's world" at the outset before it was named "Shinrarta Dezhra". So perhaps in the 1.5/2.0 change notes the “Elite/Founder missions are now only available at the Founders World” should actually have said "“Elite/Founder missions are now only available at Shinrarta Dezhra”? i.e. perhaps those missions are still available but from elsehwere in the system??
 
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@Emperor So I guess you were a Founder (kickstart backer >£150)?
If so, and are now Elite, have you tried again to get those missions at Jameson's Memorial?

Edit: Kickstarter backers >£85 had access provided to Shinrarta Dezhra from the outset, but only >£150 became "founding members"

Edit2: Just noticed that for the kickstart >£85 the phrasing was "Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR". SO the whole system was called "founder's world" at the outset before it was named "Shinrarta Dezhra". So perhaps in the 1.5/2.0 change notes the “Elite/Founder missions are now only available at the Founders World” should actually have said "“Elite/Founder missions are now only available at Shinrarta Dezhra”? i.e. perhaps those missions are still available but from elsehwere in the system??
I only had beta access and still got the Founders permi, from day one of Gamma. Don’t know If this was a bug.
I did not start in SD.
 
I only had beta access and still got the Founders permi, from day one of Gamma. Don’t know If this was a bug.
I did not start in SD.
It’s interesting isnt it? (Perhaps not?)
The system permit is the “Founders World Permit”, but the planet A4 therein named “Founders World” is inaccessible.
Be that as it may, I’m now working on the hypothesis that the E/F missions may still be available via somewhere in SD other than Jameson Memorial. I’ve checked and there are 6 surface sites in SD that belong to TDW.

Edit: bah, the first two are surface installations, so no missions 🥺
And there was I thinking 6 sites maps to the hexagonal logo! 🙁

Edit2: but found this for the reason behind the change to E/F missions at Jameson Memorial: Michael Brookes “The Elite and Founder missions are issued by the Pilots Federation which is based at the Founders World.” https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ships-beta-1-5-beta-2-incoming.200098/post-3097175 in response to AndyJ’s question immediately preceding that response.
 
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Mmm, and now I’m wondering if these missing E/F missions were changed into PF Follow-On missions, which would make sense story wise, but maybe there’s something stopping them spawning?

 
OK CMDRs,

I've clearly un-lurked!

I have a question: is there anywhere (external links) that details the list of system names in the post 1984 games Frontier: Elite II (1993) and Frontier First Encounters a(1995) that one can look up? Were there many systems? I seem to recall that journey distance was limited because of ship degradation, so perhaps back then the number of 'named' systems was far less than when ED started back in... Well, when the game started :D

I found this site: https://www.sslmit.unibo.it/zat/images/cartography/FE2-FFE_real_systems.htm - is it valid WRT the system names?

Asking because I played the 8-bit version on the ZX, missed everything else then ultimately played this game, so there are gaps in my knowledge.
 
All correct. The missions left me with a distinct feeling of just being 'regular' missions spread all over the bubble and not just isolated to Shinrarta Dezha, e.g.see Obfuscated In The Outer Rim.
Correct indeed. I remember playing early on and becoming allied with TDW (not Elite at the time in anything, and as a Flounder of the Elite) thinking I would get some 'special missions'. Turns out (as you all probably know) that what this /really/ meant was that you could get higher level missions - in fact - Elite-ranked missions - before getting to Elite. That's how I remember it anyway. I did tip-off missions, 'chained' missions (when they were introduced) thinking that it would lead to something. It never did (RNG hated me?).
 
OK CMDRs,

I've clearly un-lurked!

I have a question: is there anywhere (external links) that details the list of system names in the post 1984 games Frontier: Elite II (1993) and Frontier First Encounters a(1995) that one can look up? Were there many systems? I seem to recall that journey distance was limited because of ship degradation, so perhaps back then the number of 'named' systems was far less than when ED started back in... Well, when the game started :D

I found this site: https://www.sslmit.unibo.it/zat/images/cartography/FE2-FFE_real_systems.htm - is it valid WRT the system names?

Asking because I played the 8-bit version on the ZX, missed everything else then ultimately played this game, so there are gaps in my knowledge.
All you need for FFE is on Jades page: http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm

System lists here: http://www.jades.org/maps/index.htm

FE2 galaxy is basically the same.

The real systems coordinates in FFE/FE2 are mirrored on the galactic north/south axis(+ - error when importing catalogue data) and rotated to have polaris as north. It's a mess to work with.
 
All you need for FFE is on Jades page: http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm

System lists here: http://www.jades.org/maps/index.htm

FE2 galaxy is basically the same.

The real systems coordinates in FFE/FE2 are mirrored on the galactic north/south axis(+ - error when importing catalogue data) and rotated to have polaris as north. It's a mess to work with.
Thanks Han.

OK, that confirms that the system I found wasn't in the original series then.

So, some (any?) of you might be able to help me out. Human systems tend to either have their star cataolgue name OR an in-game designated name, like Rezhas, Lave, etc. That all seems logical from a game perspective.

Yet there are systems out there that have no population, no stations or planetary outposts, or anything of note, yet have a non-catalogue name. Recently I was going from system to system and passed through one named Diadem - a "jewel of a crown". What struck me was that this was the first system that I have knowingly encountered that has a 'strange' system name without any human habitation.

Does anyone know if there are many such systems like this - is this 'normal' - I've not encountered any, which is why the system 'Diadem' stood out to me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
 
Also known as 42 Alpha Comae Berenices. Diadem is the real name of the star from ancient times.

Named stars without population are plentiful in game. Many have traditional star names, and there are even some that have allegiance and no population, such as Jackson Lighthouse (which appears in an official novel).

Looks like some but not all of the FFE names are in game. Was hoping it explains why only a proportion of the old worlds are in game, but there seem to be no apparent ryhme nor reason to it all.

Welcome to the fray, by the way !
 
@Emperor So I guess you were a Founder (kickstart backer >£150)?
If so, and are now Elite, have you tried again to get those missions at Jameson's Memorial?

Edit: Kickstarter backers >£85 had access provided to Shinrarta Dezhra from the outset, but only >£150 became "founding members"

Edit2: Just noticed that for the kickstart >£85 the phrasing was "Kickstarter Special: Have the option to start in the founder's world with any starter ship and 4,000 CR". SO the whole system was called "founder's world" at the outset before it was named "Shinrarta Dezhra". So perhaps in the 1.5/2.0 change notes the “Elite/Founder missions are now only available at the Founders World” should actually have said "“Elite/Founder missions are now only available at Shinrarta Dezhra”? i.e. perhaps those missions are still available but from elsehwere in the system??

Well if my memory serves me well I bought beta access and they accidentally gave us access to SD... I know I didn't do the Kickstarter or life time pass .... Perhaps they got rid of the missions because too many people had access to the missions from the outset? I'll check my original purchase if I still have the email...

edit: Original purchase was for "Elite: Dangerous - Mercenary Edition" - 15 Oct 2014

Elite Dangerous - Mercenary Edition
A special edition released for purchase in September 2014.
  • Extra paint jobs & a unique decal
  • An additional in-game Eagle docked at another station (aka “Freeagle”)
  • A digital players guide book
  • A digital concept art book
This edition was given to free to all existing customers who had pre-ordered the game prior to September 2014.

There was no mention of founders world access and I seem to remember a small fuss from the kickstarter's (Which i can understand as I only paid £35 and think it was including a small charge for the beta access)

Edit 2: missed the question on being Elite - I am triple Elite (combat, trader & explorer) - I hung back from lots of Raxxla/TDW searching until I was triple as it's nagged me that you could be in the right place but not be triple Elite.... a mate of mine suggested you might have to be in a Cobra MK III for the TDW invite so flew around in one for ages just in case ;-)
 
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Also known as 42 Alpha Comae Berenices. Diadem is the real name of the star from ancient times.
I didn't know that, so it's really good to know. When I first saw it the first thing I thought (based on the fact there were no stations etc.) was "wow, a clue!". Oh well...
Named stars without population are plentiful in game. Many have traditional star names, and there are even some that have allegiance and no population, such as Jackson Lighthouse (which appears in an official novel).

Looks like some but not all of the FFE names are in game. Was hoping it explains why only a proportion of the old worlds are in game, but there seem to be no apparent ryhme nor reason to it all.
One day when I have the time I'd love to maybe try out an old emulated version of one of these games. Not overly keen on the flight model and jousts-in-space, might have been realistic but the old '84 version with it's pitch-and-roll clearly stood the test of time!
Welcome to the fray, by the way !
Thank you kindly!

I have been to this thread before, although I think it must have been almost 3-4 years since I was last here with any minor contributions. I have a number of reasons out of the remit of this thread that I've less to do with the game but Odyssey - for all it's flaws - has brought me back, at least for a while.

One thing that has happened (naturally) as I see it is that as no evidence has been found, our theories have become more and more extended to require information outside of the game - knowledge about complex mythologies, astronomy, astrology etc..

On top of that, there's MB's "tiny bit obvious" quote - and it gets me thinking that actually, you should be able to discover this in game without any complex knowledge that is obtained outside of the game if you see what I mean.

Then to add to the confusion there's the original 'teaser' missions (obfuscated in the outer rim etc.) that were later over shadowed by the Codex entries for both the Dark Wheel and Raxxla.

Which leads me to think that perhaps we've been looking too hard - or too close - at how to solve this 'problem' (I prefer to call this a problem rather than a puzzle at this point!). I think if any ground is to be gained we need to look more closely at the information that is in the game itself, rather than to looking outside for answers. Having said that, where to start? This is why I asked Jorki about the planet descriptions of the permit locked systems he's had access to. Perhaps there's more hidden here than we think.

Take for example Eravarenth:

This sparsely populated system supports a mixed extraction and mining economy. The locals like to tell stories of some of the great pilots that have passed through this system. Some even claim that one of Peter Jameson's descendents lives in the system or nearby.

... Which is right next to Shinrarta Dehzra. Well, it could be that 'living in a system nearby' means Shinrarta; or could it be that there's a Jameson haunting a system near by with clues? The game does offer game interaction via dropping into a low wake and getting messages from ships. Could this be a route to getting clues?

So basically I completely gave up on Raxxla - it became unrewarding because no one had found it. So I guess this is my last shot at maybe trying, by taking a step back - what is 'a tiny bit obvious'? That's why I am opening it up to you guys and suggesting we need a fresh look. For myself, one last look because 7 years is a long time to get nowhere! If this approach has already been tried let me know so apologies if I say 'fresh look', I am not being patronising or undermining all the effort taken so far. My main aim is that we need to be able to put ourselves in MB's shoes in order to see the problem in a new light.
 
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I didn't know that, so it's really good to know. When I first saw it the first thing I thought (based on the fact there were no stations etc.) was "wow, a clue!". Oh well...

One day when I have the time I'd love to maybe try out an old emulated version of one of these games. Not overly keen on the flight model and jousts-in-space, might have been realistic but the old '84 version with it's pitch-and-roll clearly stood the test of time!

Thank you kindly!

I have been to this thread before, although I think it must have been almost 3-4 years since I was last here with any minor contributions. I have a number of reasons out of the remit of this thread that I've less to do with the game but Odyssey - for all it's flaws - has brought me back, at least for a while.

One thing that has happened (naturally) as I see it is that as no evidence has been found, our theories have become more and more extended to require information outside of the game - knowledge about complex mythologies, astronomy, astrology etc..

On top of that, there's MB's "tiny bit obvious" quote - and it gets me thinking that actually, you should be able to discover this in game without any complex knowledge that is obtained outside of the game if you see what I mean.

Then to add to the confusion there's the original 'teaser' missions (obfuscated in the outer rim etc.) that were later over shadowed by the Codex entries for both the Dark Wheel and Raxxla.

Which leads me to think that perhaps we've been looking too hard - or too close - at how to solve this 'problem' (I prefer to call this a problem rather than a puzzle at this point!). I think if any ground is to be gained we need to look more closely at the information that is in the game itself, rather than to looking outside for answers. Having said that, where to start? This is why I asked Jorki about the planet descriptions of the permit locked systems he's had access to. Perhaps there's more hidden here than we think.

Take for example Eravarenth:



... Which is right next to Shinrarta Dehzra. Well, it could be that 'living in a system nearby' means Shinrarta; or could it be that there's a Jameson haunting a system near by with clues? The game does offer game interaction via dropping into a low wake and getting messages from ships. Could this be a route to getting clues?

So basically I completely gave up on Raxxla - it became unrewarding because no one had found it. So I guess this is my last shot at maybe trying, by taking a step back - what is 'a tiny bit obvious'? That's why I am opening it up to you guys and suggesting we need a fresh look. For myself, one last look because 7 years is a long time to get nowhere! If this approach has already been tried let me know so apologies if I say 'fresh look', I am not being patronising or undermining all the effort taken so far. My main aim is that we need to be able to put ourselves in MB's shoes in order to see the problem in a new light.
what is 'a tiny bit obvious'?

Well for me I have a problem with the word 'tiny'.... MB is an author and most likely scripted his answer before the interview as he knew he was going to be asked about it. When I heard him say 'a tiny bit obvious', I didn't raise an eyebrow but when I see it in the written form it bugs me as I would expect him to say "a little bit obvious" or just "a bit obvious"... probably nothing but we look for clues anywhere.... ;-)
 
If you have a query about an in-game star then first check the description, they often have multiple names. Then check those against the Simbad astronomical database which gives a load of alternate names etc. Then you can google them.

The trouble is that the game is based on a whole load of external data, since FD imported several extant star catalogues into the universe before running Stellar Forge to fill out the generated ones, nebulae etc. That import of several catalogues has caused problems since sometimes different stars have very similar positions, or one star has multiple positions, because astronomical data is good at angular measures but distance measures/estimates are not so reliable.

Lori Jameson is an engineer on Shinrarta Dezhra A1. That description from Evararenth does support the idea that she is a descendant of Peter Jameson, the first Elite pilot. But was he in TDW? Does that clarification get us any further? Don’t know, but it may be that a good examination & correlation of system descriptions might lead us somewhere!

All ideas welcomed in this thread!

Edit: but it is a very good thought. How could we conduct that correlation? In-game browsing is a pain (& gets my RSI twanging!). Are the system descriptions for the bubble downloadable somehow? They aren’t in EDSM are they?

Edit2: Wiki states she is descended both James (Great-grandfather) and Peter Jameson (Ancestor). Confirmed in a Galnet article
 
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It’s interesting isnt it? (Perhaps not?)
The system permit is the “Founders World Permit”, but the planet A4 therein named “Founders World” is inaccessible.
Be that as it may, I’m now working on the hypothesis that the E/F missions may still be available via somewhere in SD other than Jameson Memorial. I’ve checked and there are 6 surface sites in SD that belong to TDW.

Edit: bah, the first two are surface installations, so no missions 🥺
And there was I thinking 6 sites maps to the hexagonal logo! 🙁

Edit2: but found this for the reason behind the change to E/F missions at Jameson Memorial: Michael Brookes “The Elite and Founder missions are issued by the Pilots Federation which is based at the Founders World.” https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ships-beta-1-5-beta-2-incoming.200098/post-3097175 in response to AndyJ’s question immediately preceding that response.
"Founders are Commanders who backed at the Founders level in the Kickstarter and part of their reward was to be able to access some of these special missions."

"Some of these special missions"... So something different about them and only some of them - there are more?
 
So sadly, even though the Inara EDSM system data gives the in-game system description, the advanced search doesn't enable us to query systems /only/ with descriptions. Looks like there's an API, so I'll see if we can query based on description. Also took a look at eddb.io and downloaded the systems CSV and populated systems JSON files, again no beans - doesn't look like system descriptions are included.

Again, I don't think there's anything in the system descriptions that will help but I'd love to actually have a read of all bubble-related systems that have some kind of data on them. I am also trying to restrict myself to just in-game data for 'inspiration' (albeit slowly running out).

If anyone knows any other sites that host the data and can filter on description, or have downloads (SQL, CSV, JSON etc.) available, give me a shout. I had a quick look on Alec's best of the forums 3rd party tools, didn't see any other sites that stood out.
 
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You can use Spansh/systems search to look up systems with population greater than 1, and limit the range from Sol. My query found 9,289 within 140ly! It lists them by distance. What you then need is to look up the descriptions.
I asked on EDSM thread (suspect Inara gets it data from EDSM) and was told “In-game descriptions have been manually entered into EDSM for many populated systems. Being manually entered, it is likely to be incomplete, and some descriptions may be out of date.”
 
You can use Spansh/systems search to look up systems with population greater than 1, and limit the range from Sol. My query found 9,289 within 140ly! It lists them by distance. What you then need is to look up the descriptions.
I asked on EDSM thread (suspect Inara gets it data from EDSM) and was told “In-game descriptions have been manually entered into EDSM for many populated systems. Being manually entered, it is likely to be incomplete, and some descriptions may be out of date.”
Not sure what 'Spansh' means!?

Mmm, OK, so if systems are entered manually, yes I guess there's going to be gaps in the descriptions where they were omitted. Shame. It doesn't look like the Great Raxxla Potato Hunt is capturing such data either.

OK, well what was probably the last 'tiny bit obvious' things for me to check is probably over then. Sticking to just in-game data ideas, I am not sure I can think of anything else to aim for...

What I did find interesting on the front page of this thread where Ascorbius talks about hearing MB say about the 'already visited' status of Raxxla - shame no others can back up the same claim (think it was from Lavecon)!
 
Not sure what 'Spansh' means!?

Mmm, OK, so if systems are entered manually, yes I guess there's going to be gaps in the descriptions where they were omitted. Shame. It doesn't look like the Great Raxxla Potato Hunt is capturing such data either.

OK, well what was probably the last 'tiny bit obvious' things for me to check is probably over then. Sticking to just in-game data ideas, I am not sure I can think of anything else to aim for...

What I did find interesting on the front page of this thread where Ascorbius talks about hearing MB say about the 'already visited' status of Raxxla - shame no others can back up the same claim (think it was from Lavecon)!

Edit: looks like they have json file data dumps too...
 
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