You still haven't explained why you "had to" do that.
Peregrina Aristocrats
- Thread starter Felix DiCestria
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You still haven't explained why you "had to" do that.
At least two-side solution. Because there was no solution at all while "everything was okay" in the FDev view of situation, and fighting windmills is not my favorite leisure (personal opinion).
Ok, try to explain.
The only system that gived the permit to Peregrina, was 18609. All other systems don't give it, don't spam missions, just existed.
So PA had an advantage compared to other factions in 18609, as a permit giver.
That would be nice, but 18609 was just 12ly from our main system. That means every time PA got their influence above 75%, they expanded to our system.
We tried to deal with it first, cleaned PA ourof Kagutsuchi, but that was just delaying the situation. More than that, we were trying to fill in 8 factions in Kagutsichu and neraby, and this is still ongoing project despite the current sutuation, as controlled expansions are i but difficult thing, like, you know, Jenga, but the opposite way. I think someone here can give a report how the things were ongoing, but we're not as close as we should be.
Also we made some counterattack for PA platzdarm, and this worked much easier and better. But when we tried to gut in Peregrina to make Tiliala incident again, expansions went to nowhere. That means permit-restricted systems can't be expanded to.
We tried to call FDev. The silence was answer.
So among all variants only one remained, retreat PA inside locked system, and get rid this everlasting threat. Just because any other solutions were denied.
The megaship flipped the deck, but give us new oppertunities to still lobby your and our sutable-for-all offer: you get permit-giving unreatreatable megaship or even whole system /\ we get no expansions from 18609 ever.
The only system that gived the permit to Peregrina, was 18609. All other systems don't give it, don't spam missions, just existed.
So PA had an advantage compared to other factions in 18609, as a permit giver.
That would be nice, but 18609 was just 12ly from our main system. That means every time PA got their influence above 75%, they expanded to our system.
We tried to deal with it first, cleaned PA ourof Kagutsuchi, but that was just delaying the situation. More than that, we were trying to fill in 8 factions in Kagutsichu and neraby, and this is still ongoing project despite the current sutuation, as controlled expansions are i but difficult thing, like, you know, Jenga, but the opposite way. I think someone here can give a report how the things were ongoing, but we're not as close as we should be.
Also we made some counterattack for PA platzdarm, and this worked much easier and better. But when we tried to gut in Peregrina to make Tiliala incident again, expansions went to nowhere. That means permit-restricted systems can't be expanded to.
We tried to call FDev. The silence was answer.
So among all variants only one remained, retreat PA inside locked system, and get rid this everlasting threat. Just because any other solutions were denied.
The megaship flipped the deck, but give us new oppertunities to still lobby your and our sutable-for-all offer: you get permit-giving unreatreatable megaship or even whole system /\ we get no expansions from 18609 ever.
Note from FDev: hey, you are knocking to the restricted system for so long and now you did a thing, maybe we can deal?
That's the issue!
This is fine.
It's the mechanisms the game uses that I take issue with, not the end result.
I don't have a problem with player factions, I have a problem with things that require developer fiat, factions (of any kind) being categorically immune to extermination, and permit locks acting as a completely unassailable barrier to system access.
Also a problem. Lore as pre-game history that influences in-game events is fine. Lore as agency eviscerating plot-on-rails...not so much.
Unfortunately, due to the lack of systems in place for the game to effectively manage itself, oft inconsistent and arbitrary ad hoc developer intervention is the rule.
With regard to this event, II was sympathetic to the player's plight and understood the desire for a gesture of support, however this distinctly OOC event shouldn't bleed into the in-character game experience at all, IMO. It has no in-game context and there is no real way to avoid bias that turns such initiatives into popularity contests.
If someone wants to evangelize an out-of character cause, there are other venues, including this forum, that would be more appropriate.
No one is going to agree on what constitutes a perfect system.
At least it's mechanisms shouldn't lead to a two-side conflict of interests, if it wasn't intended to be..
It's mechanisms also shouldn't force to "resolve" such conflicts by God hand.
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We have explained several times.
It's all the fault of the uncontrolled expansion of PA into our native system (which is very close). PA artificially grows from the efforts of players trying to get access to a closed system. It would seem that what is the problem to resist? We don't have a buffer between PA and us. BGS cannot be stopped for a day. It should be monitored every day, not to allow growth. You can talk endlessly about the fact that we could allocate a pilot to monitor the growth of PA, but don't you think that's too much? Would you like to monitor the same faction every day and prevent its growth? I'm sure you wouldn't like such a groundhog day. As soon as we let go of the PA, they immediately begin to grow by leaps and bounds. Besides, you can never be sure how much the fraction will grow the next day. Actually, that is why it was decided to crush the PA in order for the developers to pay attention to this problem. But the developers made an extremely strange decision. That's what we are not satisfied with. We are not trying to block access to the PA. We want a competent solution to the problem.
If you say that we should have foreseen this in advance, we will answer - we did NOT choose our location (this is in short).
And you still haven't explained why this was a problem. Why not allow them to exist as a low-influence faction within your system? If their influence kept rising unacceptably fast after expanding in, threatening your control, that would be understandable. But you're not saying that.
And it that WAS a problem: you could drive them out of Kagutsuchi, then prevent them expanding in again. Yes it would have required you to monitor the situation and occasionally take action, but you obviously have the numbers to manage that.
Instead you attempted a permanent solution that would have forever denied the Peregrina permit to all new players.
Do not substitute our theses. We are not trying to deprive players of access to PA. You came up with this thesis yourself. Please re-read the topic, you may have missed something.
Really?
Because you DID exactly that when you retreated PA from the last system they were in (except for Peregrina of course)
And if not for that Megaship, the permit would have been lost like forever
really? how about building a team and expanding from Peregrina?
We had no choice. We have been trying to get in touch with the developers for a VERY long time. They could have solved this situation with a very simple and elegant gesture, but they did not treat it properly. You know what I'm getting at, right?
Do not judge us if you do not understand the mechanics and essence of the issue. I have already written to you before that you should also reread the topic. Don't manipulate the facts. The whole story took place in context and all decisions were aimed at stabilizing the situation in a way acceptable to everyone. By the way, I want to note that Peregrine's problem is actually overblown. A week ago, no one cared about her.
Let's move on to the constructive. We have raised a technical issue and proposed solutions that are satisfactory for everyone. Our motives remain our motives, and they don't concern you, to be honest. And even more so, none of those present has the right to talk about our righteousness.
As i said you play a small game in the bigger game.
Im not interested in bgs against you, i'm just interested to get the permit and not be denied the lore against the permit systems.
And most players are again not interested in bgs or if they are, they have their own turf to bgs with
Yes, you did had a choice.
To maintain PA in a single system as a low inf faction.
Just a few posts above, I described why we can't control the growth of PA. Are you kidding me?
So why is CEC complaining that other players should have pushed PA using in-game methods, if CEC don't want to keep PA down with in-game methods?
If you "can't" control PA, then players without a permit sure as hell can't get them out of Peregrina either.
And you again got away from the essence of the question. We can push PA and we have crushed it. After that, this theme was created. And then the developers added a ship by the hand of God. And here's the crux of the problem! The claim is initially not to the PA faction, but to a cheating solution to the situation, completely destroying the results of many years of work of the players. I think we have already repeated the whole topic from the very beginning. Put yourself in our shoes, what would you do at any given time? Oh, yes, we must not forget to repeat once again that we did not want to deprive anyone of access to PA.
We already held PA in Peregrina once and controlled them until the hand of God came.
Do people in this thread generally know how to perceive information?
We did it! But other players used cheating - "God's hand".
Therefore, we need to decide: are we playing the same game with the same rules or in the same game, but with different rules for different groups of players?
Again, let me remind you that this discussion is intended to solve the problem, and not to argue endlessly.
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