Drew Wagar's Thoughts

[Winterwalker]

There appears to be a handful or so of posters here who have opinions formed by others rather than themselves, some are even quite vocal on those opinions, not the poster in question so much, though

Personally I like to base my opinion on the opinions developed by those who only form their opinion from an opinion maker I already agree with Then my opinion is not disrupted. Life is so much simpler that way.

Come now it is not even a year since they pulled this lame marketing stunt with us. And still the quality of the product is quite questionable.

That's only your opinion poller's polled opinion!

More seriously yeah. However (Dom Corner, Monday) it IS barebones but also, Update 8 isn't only a stability patch either.

 

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Personally I like to base my opinion on the opinions developed by those who only form their opinion from an opinion maker I already agree with Then my opinion is not disrupted. Life is so much simpler that way.



That's only your opinion poller's polled opinion!

More seriously yeah. However (Dom Corner, Monday) it IS barebones but also, Update 8 isn't only a stability patch either.

Imagine that. Some half year after release. Of which I spoke of it's prerelease guff, the underdelivery at release and some half year post release which saw the delaay without schedule of the console release.
It wasnt really optimal wass it? What was your point again.

 

[Winterwalker]

Imagine that. Some half year after release. Of which I spoke of it's prerelease guff, the underdelivery at release and some half year post release which saw the delaay without schedule of the console release.
It wasnt really optimal wass it? What was your point again.

My point was / is only that a whole list of suboptimal updates didn't do Horizons any harm in the incremental end. That yes everyone wanted to get away from the KS/Horizons pre-sold development business model, to reach a fully formed expansion this time. That life intervened however and that none of us have ever experienced a pandemic before ever, in any of our lifetimes. That Frontier perhaps could have managed expectations and potentially the project (but we don't really know) better under that but hindsight is always 20/20 and we expect Update 8 next week. That, amd I'm mercenary ranked deadeye, cataloguer exobiologist and quite honestly been having a lot of fun with EDO. How about yours? Your point that is, not your (unplayed, so harmless) rank. o7

 

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My point was / is only that a whole list of suboptimal updates didn't do Horizons any harm in the incremental end. That yes everyone wanted to get away from the KS/Horizons pre-sold development business model, to reach a fully formed expansion this time. That life intervened however and that none of us, have ever experienced a pandemic before, in any of our lifetimes. That Frontier perhaps could have managed expectations and potentially the project (but we don't really know) better but hindsight is always 20/20 and we expect Update 8 next week.That, amd I'm mercenary ranked deadeye and cataloguer exobiologist and quite honestly been having a lot of fun with EDO. How about yours? Your point that is, not your (unplayed, so harmless) rank. o7

My point is that FD knew the product wasn't ready but still employed misleading information and released anyway.
My point is that I called it out before release and then some White Knights pulled some magic release branch from their rear.
My point is the shilling around release was similar to the cultist behaviour of Star Citizen.
My point is my puzzlement that after such a release like Odyssey the cultish behaviour doesn't seem affected very much although magic branch dude, I'm not sure if he's still around.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I think I'm using the word engine wrongly. You're right really that it is an SRV with legs, though avatar interaction into the BGS and a few other things besides, I think it is a bit deeper than that. Generic buildings? Yes sure. Did you see Dom Corner on Supercruise News this week, or Buur Pit's synopsis. If I was to take I guess I think Frontier still see ED very much in terms of it's code as a development, seeing reskinning as pretty much trivial, once you've locked down the functionality properly. In mentioning settlement NPC (and emotes) Dom was even quite specific that they are fully aware, it's almost deliberately bare-bones at this point.

As far as planet surfaces go though, I'm sure you'll remember they were originally intended to be the last part of Beyond! So kicking themselves for the ambition I doubt it, nil points for execution though! Actually I think it's quite a bit better than nil, as for the me the new planet surfaces look brilliant. Is Drew campaigning for the Odyssey surface textures to be migrated onto Horizons's planets, so familiar planets stay that way? Because changing the topgraphy really was a bold move. Personally I can live with it because of the update to bio/geos and overlay. It doesn't sound like Drew's Tour can though!

I don't really know how deep the engine changes (I mean, both are the Cobra engine, but different versions of it) go, but the fact they're completely separate installs seems to suggest pretty deep indeed.

I haven't watched the SC stream, might just check out Buur's or OA's latest instead for a condensed summary

The problem for me really is that I'm quite fed up with getting strung along by FDev in the hope for better things (the "foundation" fallacy) - Odyssey was supposed to be feature complete and not a series of content, which I actually welcomed because the way seasons 2 & 3 were so awfully dragged out over time really grated on me towards the end, particularly of course during the long enough content drought. To keep me engaged they really need to deliver, sooner than later.

And I don't even mean new content as such, but stable and smooth performance (without this no new content is going to be enjoyable), visuals that resemble Horizons where it matters, and a more integrated gameplay experience between EDO and EDH features (could in theory be achieved quite simply, if there was a will - like revising and cross-utility between EDO and EDH mats and how you gather them). I don't have high hopes for any of these three to arrive anytime soon though, looking at the pace they're going over the past 5 months now.

Regarding Drew, the way I understand his views is he simply is not a fan of Odyssey, and while the video linked before is quite long, the first 20 mins cover it sufficiently. I don't think he's campaigning for anything from what I could tell - he's just moving on based on the assumption that things won't change fundamentally with Elite going forward. My views are much more aligned with him than I thought (I posted earlier in this thread about my own views before I watched his video - but it could well be seen as regurgitating his opinion, that aligned basically).

 

[LeoBartlet]

My point is that FD knew the product wasn't ready but still employed misleading information and released anyway.

What's done is done. If you ain't happy.... If you ain't happy because others are not all doom and gloom...

My point is that I called it out before release and then some White Knights pulled some magic release branch from their rear.

That white knightery you call it was based off the fact that Frontier themselves said that the Alpha branch was a few weeks out of date. It's obvious that was at best wrong or at worse a lie.

My point is the shilling around release was similar to the cultist behaviour of Star Citizen.

Buy an Idris.

 

[Winterwalker]

My point is that FD knew the product wasn't ready but still employed misleading information and released anyway.

Misleading? Doubtful. The features released were as advertised and nobody in their right mind, especially seeing what it did to THEIR shareprice, can think Frontier had any intention of misleading anyone on framerates. Subsequent updates and comms are evidence of that.

My point is that I called it out before release and then some White Knights pulled some magic release branch from their rear.

Irrelevant. No white knights are FD employees and Frontier themselves are famous for keeping schtoom.

My point is the shilling around release was similar to the cultist behaviour of Star Citizen.

Also irrelevant but if I were to bite, any point release has two facets; the naked truth and it's potential when less bare-boned in 1.1. Which to focus on is a free choice in a free country, you choose your viewpoint, I choose mine.

My point is my puzzlement that after such a release like Odyssey the cultish behaviour doesn't seem affected very much although magic branch dude, I'm not sure if he's still around.

Don't think I have been - or in fact seen many people and certainly not enough to fill a cult minibus, where do I sign and will there be girls - blind to the problems with EDO. However, having made a free choice to focus my mind on the potential rather than the snagging list, play what's there and worry less about what's not, even to buy Frontier time if it's the difference between the project folding or continuing on, isn't magic thinking really. It's just pragmatic.

 

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Misleading? Doubtful. The features released were as advertised and nobody in their right mind, especially seeing what it did to THEIR shareprice, can think Frontier had any intention of misleading anyone on framerates. Subsequent updates and comms are evidence of that.
...

Lol? Looking at the framerates I'd say there was a big incentive on misleading in order to sell the crap.
It's not that I bother much more. I didn't even "hate" or rant about it. I pointed just out the marketing guff when they pulled it on us. Odyssey was dead for me when they announced their crappy little loot carousel would just continue and I knew I would just hate THAT.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Regarding Drew, the way I understand his views is he simply is not a fan of Odyssey, and while the video linked before is quite long, the first 20 mins cover it sufficiently.

Without being too unkind, he'd confirmed that Odyssey wasn't taking the game in a direction he liked (I'm being very polite) in the first 2 minutes. The following 50 minutes or so were justifying his opinion.

But he is doing a farewell tour, in Horizons, for his fans, so it wasn't an immediate evacuation from Elite: Dangerous, just the announcement of such.

 

[Winterwalker]

Lol? Looking at the framerates I'd say there was a big incentive on misleading in order to sell the crap.
It's not that I bother much more. I didn't even "hate" or rant about it. I pointed just out the marketing guff when they pulled it on us. Odyssey was dead for me when they announced their crappy little loot carousel would just continue and I knew I would just hate THAT.

Marketeers are paid to positive spin on things as best they can, so there's a life lesson learned? But developer's jobs and livelihoods do ultimately rely on the success of their work. It's possible - I suppose - but considering that they are releaseing stability updates means I think it's a bit tin hat really.

I don't know. you can judge for yourself but for not only does Dominic Corner not look like a marketing guy,, he doesn't sound like one either. He was on Tuesday actually I think it must have been, talking about how they put settlement NPC's in basic for first, then can use that as a tool to develop mysteries and missions. Not only is it a practical way to go about things, for me it indicates that Frontier sees more than loot boxes in ED's future. Besides, to get the loot you do have to (1) sneak past the raiders (2) disable the secure systems (3) don't get scanned while docking, to throw in a Horizons one.

 

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Marketeers are paid to positive spin on things as best they can, so there's a life lesson learned? But developer's jobs and livelihoods do ultimately rely on the success of their work. It's possible - I suppose - but considering that they are releaseing stability updates means I think it's a bit tin hat really.

I don't know. you can judge for yourself but for not only does Dominic Corner not look like a marketing guy,, he doesn't sound like one either. He was on Tuesday actually I think it must have been, talking about how they put settlement NPC's in basic for first, then can use that as a tool to develop mysteries and missions. Not only is it a practical way to go about things, for me it indicates that Frontier sees more than loot boxes in ED's future. Besides, to get the loot you do have to (1) sneak past the raiders (2) disable the secure systems (3) don't get scanned while docking, to throw in a Horizons one.

The industry never learns from mistakes I feel. I think it is probably better to remind the players that they were lied to by Publisher A, Dev B, Media Shill C multiple times already so they need not get hyped and just wait after release and see what's really there instead of preordering black boxes blindly.

 

[Rat Catcher]

not only does Dominic Corner not look like a marketing guy,, he doesn't sound like one either. He was on Tuesday

Despite the internet taking a hit on his VOIP connection, the mission generation and how it will develop in the future was presented well, more like a conversation than 'sales pitch' and was over altogether too quickly... Yes, I was watching and listening too!

 

[Winterwalker]

Without being too unkind, he'd confirmed that Odyssey wasn't taking the game in a direction he liked

Does he say what direction he would like for interest?

I don't know much about his history with playing FE2, First Encounters etc. I know I always felt each new version has always tried to expand it's horizons out from the last.

Does he disapprove of feet on a fundamental level? I can't watch even that long - his giggling - but I am interested in that conversation.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Does he say what direction he would like for interest?

I don't honestly know, I listened to some of his initial chat and was going to return to listen to the bits I skipped, but have been playing rather than listening to stuff of only mild interest.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Without being too unkind, he'd confirmed that Odyssey wasn't taking the game in a direction he liked (I'm being very polite) in the first 2 minutes. The following 50 minutes or so were justifying his opinion.

But he is doing a farewell tour, in Horizons, for his fans, so it wasn't an immediate evacuation from Elite: Dangerous, just the announcement of such.

Possible, I listened to it a few days ago while working so may have misjudged how much time it took to summarise his views as I was tuning in and out. It's definitely not necessary to watch the full video, but that's streams for ya.

And yes, I'd say his farewell is more from Odyssey than Horizons, and having seen how the game performs on his PC I can't blame him - although his issues with EDO are probably more because of the content than performance, and lack of lore (I think all the lore we're currently getting is limited to Horizons, given not all players have access to Odyssey namely console players - I believe FDev stated this at some point but can't remember precisely).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Does he say what direction he would like for interest?

I don't know much about his history with playing FE2, First Encounters etc. I know I always felt each new version has always tried to expand it's horizons out from the last.

Does he disapprove of feet on a fundamental level? I can't watch even that long - his giggling - but I am interested in that conversation.

I think he released a video a while back with suggestions so that might yield some answers.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Possible, I listened to it a few days ago while working so may have misjudged how much time it took to summarise his views as I was tuning in and out. It's definitely not necessary to watch the full video, but that's streams for ya.

I'd listened to a part (5 minutes or so) then 'channel hopped' the remainder, and promised myself I'd have a proper listen at some point. I probably will over the weekend when jumping a carrier back to the bubble, so take it in chunks in the down-time when preparing to jump.

 

[Winterwalker]

(I think all the lore we're currently getting is limited to Horizons, given not all players have access to Odyssey namely console players - I believe FDev stated this at some point but can't remember precisely).

I reckon Frontier deserve proper brownie points for remembering (or even if they only listened) on that.

 

[thistle]

Drew released another video about Elite today. Quick everyone, there's another 40 odd pages to be squeezed out of that one too.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

On the first I see a huge improvement in the realism and complexity of surfaces, so I really don't know what you're looking at. Scattering some trees is going to be a snap after that.

No new lore but does EVERY update HAVE to include new lore to be a success? Maybe - and call me Gerald if you like - the focus this time was on including a new core mechanic, one that (quote from yesterday stream) can be used to communicate (lore) exposition in a FAR more interesting way than reading it in any CODEX.

As for procedural wizardry .. this time, reworked planet surfaces. Yes we had surfaces in Horizons and it's a rework this time but new surfaces suits this update. I have seen sedimentary rock in Odyssey mind you though. And I don't mean some striation in a scatter riock or anything, I mean sedimentts in the PG .. of a canyon wall. Our Lord DBOBE of the Braben even 'liked' my screenshot of it.

Repeating patterns issue aside, did those new surfaces really bring that much after all those years? Surface textures might look better, but what about the elevation map - I've read that planets are more flat than ever...?

Yes, lore was essential part of the game and I think it would not have taken much to keep it alive. The mysteries were especially cool. Compared to that Odyssey appears very clinical, not just the lack of side stories, even the new the interiors look very generic (to me).

At the end of the day the biggest issue is the lack of alternatives, and for that we certainly cannot blame FDev...