ObsidianAnt: Frontier - What The HECK Is Going On With Elite Dangerous?

[Tikanderoga]

It's getting difficult to make original ED content, as the CMs are finding (not CMs fault).

In a sandbox without toys and water, how many sand heaps can you build and pretend it's castle greyskull or the emperor's palace, before the shine starts to fade and you have to admit defeat and agree, that both are just a heap of sand without any kind of features?

I think we all try to squint as hard as we can, giving ED the benefit of the doubt, that there is content, but eventually, that squinting just turns into a shut eye and we have to realise, we are dreaming and need to wake up. ED isn't offering us anything new.
The content creators are giving up on Elite because Fdev seems to be.

I don't play WoW anymore, but I still keep watching that's being released, and here, during the reveal, watch the next 2-3 minutes:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nPloFgHkM&t=660s


They have been listening to the community.
Best way to get the players back I guess.

 

[The Atlas]

I said that earlier. OA was amazing as long as he was speaking the stuff they wanted him to say.
He stopped being cool as soon as he voiced criticism. Valid, constructive.... it doesn't matter at all.

Those people are not after the truth or honesty, they are after confirmation of what they say. Everything that goes against it get discarded. OA is a SC paid shill, 24fps is the highest a human eye can perceive, the bad reviews on steam for the DLC are an organized review bombing....
And yes, I literally read all that on this forum from various posters. With no exaggeration. And it gets thumbs up by a lot of others.

It's a circlejerk of positive bias, which fight a circlejerk of negative bias. And everything in the middle get immediately assigned a side, because no reasonable human being can stay outside of the ridiculous extremes, apparently.

funny how you can say exactly what i want while using a thousand words less, i feel dumb.

spot on as usual erei, i'd give you a virtual hug but that would be creepy, so cheers mate.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

"The forum is so toxic with all those DOOM thread and negative people !"
Say the very same people who engage in witch hunting over a video the maker didn't even post there. Then accuse said videomaker of being a paid shill for another company, which is somehow seen as malicious toward the forum owners.
They also go on some weird crusade to remove his name from the game.


Yeah, I can see the toxicity alright.

guess they wont be banned

 

[Old Duck]

Maybe Frontier will deliver something good one day that will bring many of them back. Or maybe they won't.

I'll settle for another bounty hunting or combat CG. That's what brought me back in the first place, but I guess those are pretty rare these days

guess they wont be banned

No, but at least people are finally pushing back against this small group of bullies. I think they're getting the message.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

It's even more ironic because they complain about that regarding Odyssey.

Even more ironic is when you can't run odd well, you actually think more highly of it because the problems are technical. When you start cracking through and playing the game and the gut sinking feeling hits you.. as hard as you try there isn't anything of joy in what they added.. you go back to longing for just technical problems with it.

For anyone on the fence.. it really is just an elite mission board for a early 2000's era fps. The stations are the same and just empty shells, x-rebirth has more variety. They have still to this date not put a ship content terminal in the stations.. if anything their refusal to see this is quite alarming...

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

On the axis of fanboyism-haters, Burr is all the way into "fanboy",

I sadly can't stand burr pit. Sure hes the only elite content creator these days, but applies a grandparent like forgiveness to frontier the company. To me, people doing this over the years is directly responsible for frontier not taking elite seriously and ending up where we are now, but of course its their responsibility. Can you imagine the first time frontier released a patch they knew was sub optimal, but still got showered with glorious praise anyway? After that happened a few times brabes naturally decided to take advantage of that and dream about publishing.. ? That's the history from the outside anyway.

At least you can tell he plays the game, which is something. If you had to pick from two evils, the frontier content and burr pit, he wins from that at least.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

But it was a long time in the past, wasn't it?

Is the kickstarter officially finished and delivered then? Has frontier either delivered all the content promised, finished the game, and then moved forward onto something different?

I would never do this, but you need to understand that money for expected future delivery was what sold the game, and critically, made everyone handwave all its issues for the first 3 years. Until its settled, these expectations will be present.

Do you honestly believe its fair to dismiss the expectations that frontier themselves created and sold the game with?

Counter: David braben let slip that the kickstarter was nothing more than a marketing proof of concept, they weren't pan handling for development funds like the true purpose of kickstarter, so frontier internally may have a very different outlook. Its worth factoring that in as well. Source was the 2016 conference thing they did.

 

[Old Duck]

I sadly can't stand burr pit. Sure hes the only elite content creator these days, but applies a grandparent like forgiveness to frontier the company. To me, people doing this over the years is directly responsible for frontier not taking elite seriously and ending up where we are now, but of course its their responsibility. Can you imagine the first time frontier released a patch they knew was sub optimal, but still got showered with glorious praise anyway? After that happened a few times brabes naturally decided to take advantage of that and dream about publishing.. ? That's the history from the outside anyway.

At least you can tell he plays the game, which is something. If you had to pick from two evils, the frontier content and burr pit, he wins from that at least.

Now you sound like the OA haters, just with a different target.

If OA doesn't deserve hate, then neither does Buur. Both are nice guys with different opinions. This "Buur is evil because he's nice like grandpa to Frontier" nonsense is no better than the "OA is evil because he's not nice to Frontier" nonsense.

Bad form.

 

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Guys accept it, elite is at the moment on a worse path, they have promised so many things and didn’t delivered it. So perhaps some of u should accept the reality and try to think in realistic ways. OA was known for long time that he his a believer, how many believers should run away till some of u come out there dreamworld and accept the truth. elite isn’t a healthy game in no way, they feed the community with content to distract from negativ aspect, like cancellation of consoles or top tier bugs.

in the meantime other games worked out very well with new update on every plattform (Stellaris, NMS)

it’s breaks my heart to loose my hobby, but seeing it now from distance shows more then clear that some guys really really need other games, because elite is drowning at the moment and a part of this community praise them for this ridiculous behavior and treatment.

by the way @Bottom Hat how did you feel? Hopes all good

Ps: some example from former believer
Drew wagar
D2EA ( Partial he is more neutral like back in the days)
OA( Partial but he was with no doubt a full believer back in the days)

And to the burr pit topic
When I get it right his main content is elite so he has had the moment no chance to be critical with elite, perhaps and I hope it for him, He woke up and spread out for other games. He is a lovely guy and has pure entusiams for elite, but really when you read it burr, search for a second standing ground because elite is more then ever shaky

oh and not to forget some important devs
but you all knows they’re names

 

[Vallysa]

This weekend's chocolate gift from Frontier has been keeping me pretty calm.

View attachment 302919

I can't help but think that they quite literally offered you an egg in these trying times.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Now you sound like the OA haters, just with a different target.

If OA doesn't deserve hate, then neither does Buur. Both are nice guys with different opinions. This "Buur is evil because he's nice like grandpa to Frontier" nonsense is no better than the "OA is evil because he's not nice to Frontier" nonsense.

Bad form.

x2, no creator deserves hate.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Now you sound like the OA haters, just with a different target.

If OA doesn't deserve hate, then neither does Buur. Both are nice guys with different opinions. This "Buur is evil because he's nice like grandpa to Frontier" nonsense is no better than the "OA is evil because he's not nice to Frontier" nonsense.

Bad form.

But is a problem though. Frontier have only taken liberties with the game because the community gives them positive feedback even when they do.

I think there's a fine line of earned merit with praise that QA has never crossed, even when he was closer to cheerleady over the years.

The almost arrogant absolute positivity doesn't provide the correct feedback to frontier, or i'm just not compatible with that attitude... critically... when the software doesn't also reach that same merit.

Its all moot anyway.

My worldview of elite is first holding onto the game itself, im a solo player, so the software is actually the most valuable. It seems common that the community makes the game for many people, but that would explain my difference in outlook.

EDIT: Just to define expectations, how about average industry standards will do. Somewhere in between mvp and pinnacle of the craft. You can optionally consider "service" game standards if you want, but personally i don't need that so dont audit how they go there. Even better, how about frontier just act to their own peak standards, around launch and horizons first year. Lets just expect only what they have previously done in the past to be the most practical and fair.

 

[StuartGT]

Now you sound like the OA haters, just with a different target.

If OA doesn't deserve hate, then neither does Buur. Both are nice guys with different opinions. This "Buur is evil because he's nice like grandpa to Frontier" nonsense is no better than the "OA is evil because he's not nice to Frontier" nonsense.

Bad form.

Those people that are tribal towards a game, extremist love or hate, are very weird. And hilarious

 

[TrollhunterX]

No, but at least people are finally pushing back against this small group of bullies. I think they're getting the message.

I would hope so. I suspect that for many of these people, it's not even about defending Frontier or the game, so technically, they're not even 'white knights', but more like mercenaries, up for a spot of pillaging just to keep their hand in, the moment someone resembles a 'legitimate' target.

If they were more interested in arguments than attacks, they might actually see the flaws in their MO, and that it does more harm than good to snipe at, and about, individuals.

 

[Straker]

One thing that I find interesting is that in the earlier years of ED, OA was criticised for not taking sides on issues and being too afraid to speak his true opinion on the game. Now that he is openly discussing issues with the game and providing his own opinions, he is still being criticised. Whether you agree with OA's opinions or not, you can't help but notice this.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I would hope so. I suspect that for many of these people, it's not even about defending Frontier or the game, so technically, they're not even 'white knights', but more like mercenaries, up for a spot of pillaging just to keep their hand in, the moment someone resembles a 'legitimate' target.

If they were more interested in arguments than attacks, they might actually see the flaws in their MO, and that it does more harm than good to snipe at, and about, individuals.

I remember the amount of effort the real white knights used to go to. They wrote pages of text rebuttal and it was good times all around. The fact everyone was talking about the game really made it, and gave a great feedback for engaging in discussions, especially because they had a different point of view.

 

[TrollhunterX]

Now you sound like the OA haters, just with a different target.

If OA doesn't deserve hate, then neither does Buur. Both are nice guys with different opinions. This "Buur is evil because he's nice like grandpa to Frontier" nonsense is no better than the "OA is evil because he's not nice to Frontier" nonsense.

Bad form.

Hmm, different targets, but the same tree, in that they both have their flaws. OA's have been discussed, but in the Buur Pit's case, well, maybe's it's not so much about flaws as presentation. When I saw his first video, looking for news about updates, it seemed to be just reciting Galnet articles, which struck me as a cheap way to produce content. On top of that, his cheery, almost 'radio local!' delivery made him sound like one of those shallow media shill types. It might have been intended as immersive content, but it didn't encourage me to seek out other videos, even after watching the Rackham's Peak one. Maybe that vibe doesn't only put me off?

I'm more interested in the 'How to...' side of Elite video content, such as Hawkes Gaming, Stealthboy and Dr Hope Math (not so much DTEA because, spreadsheets), but any content creator should be either respected or ignored, in my view. As mentioned before, the Streisand Effect really doesn't reward salt.

 

[Leadfoot]

It does make me somewhat sad to see OA has soured on the game. I remember back in 2.1 and 2.2 watching his videos with absolute fascination as I started my own journey. Now I'm probably even more jaded than he is since he is at least still playing the game and making content albeit negative content. An occasional scroll through this cognitive cesspit aka the forum is as close I get these days. Fly dangerous, Iguess. O7

As I pointed out in my post a few light years back, OA isn't souring on the game; he's souring on FD for their lack of drive to bring new content on a regular basis and a seeming lack of drive to communicate with their player base. The bulk of his video was involving other companies and their apparent joy in communicating with their player base. I am still hoping someone at FD will bother watching the video and maybe pick up on his examples of what FD needs to do, i.e., turn the radio back on.

I do not think that the game will be shut down in one or two months.
but what is possible is, that the budget and effort may be reduced over time and FD will keep the game in stagnation state.

Well, Starfield is coming out on November 11, said to be "Skyrim in space" so even if ED is DOOMED, we will still have a spaceship to fly. And I'm sure it'll have someone in a space station to say "I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took a laser to the left eye."

I refer you to the KickStarter, it was the future Frontier defined.

But it was a long time in the past, wasn't it?

And in a galaxy, far, far away.

The only people who can settle this discussion are Frontier themselves.

Ah, glad to hear that. They'll be along shortly, right?

I'll settle for another bounty hunting or combat CG. That's what brought me back in the first place, but I guess those are pretty rare these days

They need to be brought back alive. No disintegration.

The content creators are giving up on Elite because Fdev seems to be.
I don't play WoW anymore, but I still keep watching that's being released

This is something I wish ED could do, i.e., give us a quest or something along those lines. Maybe use some of those "unknown permit" areas for quest players only. One can only hope.

David braben let slip that the kickstarter was nothing more than a marketing proof of concept, they weren't pan handling for development funds like the true purpose of kickstarter, so frontier internally may have a very different outlook. Its worth factoring that in as well. Source was the 2016 conference thing they did.

As I've stated a number of times, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" and in this case, the enemy was the reality of a series of decisions going this way and that which ended up killing frame rates (and still being addressed after 11 updates since release) and then killing off development for consoles (regarding Odyssey).

I had always hoped I'd end up with a winning lottery ticket, over $300 million in my account, a nice house with a yard, maybe a dog to play ball with, and time to drive all over the place. Funny how life tosses curves at you.

 

[Tikanderoga]

Guys accept it, elite is at the moment on a worse path, they have promised so many things and didn’t delivered it. So perhaps some of u should accept the reality and try to think in realistic ways.

It sure had better and more idealistic days.
In its current state, the hardcore fans will hang around for some time, until even they get bored or Fdev really screws up and drives away the last loyal fans.

it’s breaks my heart to loose my hobby, but seeing it now from distance shows more then clear that some guys really really need other games, because elite is drowning at the moment and a part of this community praise them for this ridiculous behavior and treatment.

I think the praise is mainly because the community has already predicted what will happen. When the Alpha was released, and no beta announcement, we knew Odyssey will be a beta test, sold as a finished product and then ironed out with the community doing the testing and bug report.
Unfortunately, the community didn't take too kindly to this treatment, being beta testers and being milked for money in the process.
Then FDev going quiet about everything and then announcing the cancellation for consoles.

All that with the combination of no ship interiors and dropping VR, it's a miracle the game has any player base left.

Of course there is the white knighting of "But what about the 11 updates they released?!".
Yes, well the bug fixing and optimisation should have been in the finished product. Oh wait... beta testing... right...

 

[robbyp]

VR and ship interiors are both wants of a vocal minority.

VR penetration is low. The vast majority do not use VR. Re https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-steam-vr-headset-stats-2021-monthly-active-users/ 2.12 %. Maybe elite is more that that percentage, but even if its 10%, it still means 90% of people do not use VR.

And not everyone cares about running around ships.

Frontier knows the stats, and its pretty obvious to me from their behaviour they do not rate those two at the most pressing things to do.