4.0 worst performance

[galahad2069]

I have no reason to use 4.0 except that if I want new content they force me to use it, I guess in the end I will abandon the game because I don't like this new engine at all.

For a Horizons-only user literally the only real reason to launch Horizons 4.0 instead of 3.8 would have been the ability to instance with Odyssey players.
But sadly you can't do that. Not only cannot you instance with someone while he's in Odyssey, but ironically you'll both need to launch Horizons 3.8 to be able to play together, because obviously you don't have access to Odyssey, and Odyssey owners don't have access to Horizons 4.0.

 

[Morbad]

But sadly you can't do that.

Well, we can, but it's needlessly complicated and wholly unsupported ordeal.

 

[jackoisinthehouse]

No, that's just a false excuse.
Colors are not more realistic in Odyssey, and the general darkness is not the result of some artistic decision or "realism".
Tell me how it's realistic that planets are invisible until you get really close, or how it's realistic that faint stars seem to blink in space if you steer the nose of your ship (scintillation is an atmospheric phenomenon).

Color changes (for example the color of the central star not affecting the color of things it illuminates) is just a bug.

Darkness is mainly caused by another bug (most probably some bad value in some image postprocessing step) which seems to destroy pixel intensity data close to the lower end of the histogram, that's why you cannot bring it back no matter how high you crank up gamma. It's probably the same issue what makes faint stars scintillate ("blink") as you move the nose of your ship, which is not happening in Horizons 3.8.



Another false excuse. Odyssey (and Horizons 4.0) does NOT offer any kind of graphical improvements over Horizons 3.8 in legacy space gameplay scenarios (which is basically all what Horizons 4.0 has to offer), it literally only needs to render the exact same things in space (starry background, local stars and planets and nearby ships) so there is zero reason for it to be more power hungry. "New things" only justify the requirement of more computing power if it takes more complex computations to render higher quality images, which is quite clearly not the case in the Horizons 3.8 vs 4.0 relation.

Thanks, totally agree.

 

[galahad2069]

Well, we can, but it's needlessly complicated and wholly unsupported ordeal.

Wait, you can instance with someone in Odyssey while you are in Horizons 4.0?
Or you just mean that Odyssey users can find a way to start the game in Horizons 4.0 mode despite the lack of an option for that in the launcher by default?

 

[Morbad]

Wait, you can instance with someone in Odyssey while you are in Horizons 4.0?
Or you just mean that Odyssey users can find a way to start the game in Horizons 4.0 mode despite the lack of an option for that in the launcher by default?

The latter.

 

[Stealthie]

For a Horizons-only user literally the only real reason to launch Horizons 4.0 instead of 3.8 would have been the ability to instance with Odyssey players.

Well, there's your problem, right there.

Let's face it, the whole purpose of this was to make things easier for FDev, rather than for users.
Nothing wrong with that, I guess, if it wasn't for the fact that the changes to planet-tech' are so divisive.

On the one hand, I guess FDev might keep the 3.8 galaxy plodding along for console users, which is also good for PC players who prefer it.
OTOH, I imagine it must be simpler, and more cost-effective, for FDev to just have "one galaxy" to deal with.

Course, having said all that, it certainly seems like it'd be smart to try and amalgamate players into one galaxy as much as possible.

 

[galahad2069]

The latter.

Ah okay. I was talking about the former when I said "sadly you can't do that".
BTW even if it's possible for Odyssey owners to launch the game in Horizons 4.0 mode, there's very little reason to do so - they'll still need to relaunch the game in a mode other than Odyssey, so they could just log in Horizons 3.8 and benefit from the generally better performance. Horizons 4.0 has next to zero advantages to offer.

Well, there's your problem, right there.

I do have Odyssey on one of my accounts.

BTW as things stand now, Horizons is the base game, Odyssey is nothing more than an optional DLC.

 

[Rochester]

Well it’s obvious that 4.0 is just EDO minus legs. So it’s pretty apparent if you can’t run EDO 4.0 won’t work any better.

When asked about my rigs compatibility regards EDO at launch FD confirmed “Odyssey is more graphically intensive than Horizons”.

Graphically ‘intensive’ is not an indication of ‘quality’. Just that it chews more RAM, and as we’ve seen from EDO that’s due to bad coding. It looks like the same applies for 4.0.

3.8 remains the more stable and more attractive product.

 

[GJ51]

Irony

After all this time and effort 3.8 is now the best version of ED if you're more interested in flying a ship than playing Space Doom.

It's obvious that FD is putting more time and effort into Persistent videos that you're supposed to watch every time you load the game, than actually fixing the laundry list of bugs in Oddity. EDH 4.0 - what a waste of resources just so they can demonstrate the better playability of 3.8...

ED is still best in genre from the pilot's chair but it's hard to deny that the best version from that perspective is still 3.8

I'm happy to hear that ED has no plane to update 3.8 any further because we can already see how that goes in 4.0

The whole multi-platform issue simply demonstrates that it's time to begin development of an entirely new ED on a new modern game engine that is "single universe" from the ground up. Problem is, I don't see FD having the team, resources, and competence to undertake such a project. As much as anyone else, I would love to see them prove me wrong, but I doubt that will happen.

After 14 attempts on EDO we still have degraded thrusters, flawed docking computers and the rest of the oft repeated flaws that just get ignored by FD with each patch.

I was amazed at how much more visible ships are around stations are in 3.8 - so many little things are just so much better in 3.8. It just plays faster. There are things I like in EDO, but the trade offs just aren't worth it.

As I've said elsewhere, I jumped into EDO early on assuming we would be going there eventually, and spent all my time acclimating to EDO since it was introduced.

Switching back into 3.8 is a real eye opener after not having been there for so long.

I'd like to have more to look forward to, but I'm resigned to accepting that 3.8 will be where I will be playing for the foreseeable future.

Hope to see more CMDRs there in Open

I'll stop by in EDO for a drink at the bar once in a while, but I'll be flying in 3.8 from now on unless there's a DRAMATIC improvement and a bug squashing campaign in EDO somewhere down the road.

Cheers

 

[Globusdiablo]

...I personally would like to stay on 3.8, I hope they don't remove it.

I agree.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...ED is still best in genre from the pilot's chair but it's hard to deny that the best version from that perspective is still 3.8...

Right on, Commander!

 

[Vagrant Shadow]

I tried 4.0 briefly as I was curious to know what EDO-lite was like. At first it was acceptable but soon the FPS tanked and I was running a nice and laggy 10/15fps in and away from the station. (I also did reduce settings and other recommended settings here)
I went back to 3.8 and I am back to a clean 60+ FPS. If there was any hint of 3.8 being phased out I would end up having to retire from ED; that prospect saddens me.

 

[Red Rocket]

I am thinking that the release of Horizons 4.0 is backfiring on Fdev, having 3.8 players with fresh eyes seeing the visual difference and performance between Horizons and Odyssey.

Now preferring Horizon 3.8.

Now if Fdev wants us to adopt Odyssey they need to fix the lighting and performance consistency.
I find Odyssey lighting consistency terrible and overly dark in places.

I still love Horizons 3.8 and see it as the best version.

 

[Northpin]

Another false excuse. Odyssey (and Horizons 4.0) does NOT offer any kind of graphical improvements over Horizons 3.8 in legacy space gameplay scenarios

I'd say that is wrong

I really like how ships look in Horizons. Or the Stations or the Carriers for what is worth

But if you put side by side a shot of a carrier in Horizons and one in Odyssey, the differences are obvious and the Horizons one looks very cartoony (not in a bad way cartoony, in an artsy cartoony style, but still cartoony) - and this means less details, less processing power needed, less powerful gfx cards needed.
And this is only for the Space part (the on foot part will add extra cpu strain due to NPC AI)

 

[tolm]

I haven’t played for ages - probably since patch 8 or so - as I was waiting for the console transfer. Now that’s done, I’ve been flying my new (old?) ships around on PC in EDO and I don’t remember it looking this good before … the interior of the Mamba - for example - looks absolutely stunning.

 

[Stealthie]

FWIW, a good place to see the difference between Horizons and Odyssey is when mining in a planet's ring.
If Horizons is "okay", Odyssey can look STUNNING when you've got the right lighting and conditions.

On the down-side, if you want Odyssey lighting, you also have to put up with Odyssey planet-tech'.

 

[BL1P]

I'd say that is wrong

I really like how ships look in Horizons. Or the Stations or the Carriers for what is worth

But if you put side by side a shot of a carrier in Horizons and one in Odyssey, the differences are obvious and the Horizons one looks very cartoony (not in a bad way cartoony, in an artsy cartoony style, but still cartoony)

View attachment 322717
View attachment 322718

Yes it does look more cartoony.
But if that was a video the 4.0 one would have flickering shadows and wobbly anti alias but the 3.8 would be very smooth.

Yes 4.0 looks great in screenshots but fails when played. just my opinion and experiance.

 

[Northpin]

Yes it does look more cartoony.
But if that was a video the 4.0 one would have flickering shadows and wobbly anti alias but the 3.8 would be very smooth.

Yes 4.0 looks great in screenshots but fails when played. just my opinion and experiance.

I dont have much issues with shadows, but the antialiasing is like non-existent
Still, 4.0 is more demanding and for a reason.

So, My problem is not with the level of details we get in Odyssey, but with lighting and the washed out colors or the plain wrong color palette.

I mean, look at the 3 bright stars aligned vertically in the left side of my screenshots. In horizons they have colors (yellow, orange, blue-white). In Odyssey there is no color
Look at the blue stripes on my Carrier paint (it's Imperials something). In Odyssey they're no longer light blue, they're greenish? teal? NOT Blue anyway

But the extra details are there and they are taxing.

 

[galahad2069]

I'd say that is wrong

I really like how ships look in Horizons. Or the Stations or the Carriers for what is worth

But if you put side by side a shot of a carrier in Horizons and one in Odyssey, the differences are obvious and the Horizons one looks very cartoony (not in a bad way cartoony, in an artsy cartoony style, but still cartoony) - and this means less details, less processing power needed, less powerful gfx cards needed.
And this is only for the Space part (the on foot part will add extra cpu strain due to NPC AI)

View attachment 322717
View attachment 322718

Yeah, the first one is more brownish, the second one seems to be illuminated by a neutral white light source.
That surely shouldn't cost me tens of fps

 

[BL1P]

I dont have much issues with shadows, but the antialiasing is like non-existent
Still, 4.0 is more demanding and for a reason.

So, My problem is not with the level of details we get in Odyssey, but with lighting and the washed out colors or the plain wrong color palette.

I mean, look at the 3 bright stars aligned vertically in the left side of my screenshots. In horizons they have colors (yellow, orange, blue-white). In Odyssey there is no color
Look at the blue stripes on my Carrier paint (it's Imperials something). In Odyssey they're no longer light blue, they're greenish? teal? NOT Blue anyway

But the extra details are there and they are taxing.

Agreed.
I think if they manage to fix performance , anti alias, shadows and colour/brightness. Things will be much better.