How are people still making these threads? The FDL is absolutely horrible at every role that does not involve murdering things. It's a bounty hunter ship for crying out loud. Oh boohoo the golden boy Python has four utility slots, it's also the most versatile endgame ship available so no, it does not deserve a buff! For folk who want to blow stuff up 1v1 and kill entitled player traders, the FDL is the perfect ship. For anything else, there's every other ship in the game.
1.2 vs 2.2 FDL: A comparison
- Thread starter Alexander the Grape
- Start date
I like my Black Friday skin and the new pirate pack, Gold for those special occasions.....when I want to blind the enemy, psychological warfare.
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matter of opinion, but I find the gold and black paint jobs to be tacky.
I guess everyone is ignoring the 18 other items on that list? I mean, taxes are coming up in a couple months
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Really? I can think of 19 drawbacks off the top of my head:
- The FDL has horrible hard point placement, it's strongest weapon is below it's horizon which you HAVE to be pointing directly at (or above??) your opponent to use the weapon. Which means the target is often below the horizon, and you are flying by sensors.
- The FDL also has a odd side-horizon problem where one of the outer medium hardpoints is very often failing to get a lock, and doesn't fire.
- The FDL turning rate is EXTREMELY pip dependent, which means that if you don't use low WEP drain guns, then you will be flying a spinning brick, and or getting EXTREMELY good at FA off aiming.
- The FDL has mostly low class weapon with low armor pen which means that against large and med ships, it's really doing 50% of stated DPS with those medium guns
- The FDL runs hot as hades unless you specially engineer EVERYTHING to run cool.
- The FDL is expensive to repair when it inevitably overheats with high DPS builds.
- The FDL can run fairly cool if engineered properly but at a huge cost to DPS.
- The FDL jump range maxes out at 20LY with herculean weight saving efforts, typical "high" results are more like 18 LY.
- The FDL cannot catch anyone who high wakes - some bounty hunting ship...
- The FDLl has low base armor and HEAVY upgraded bulkheads, so you either NEED huge shields or you'll have to accept lower agility/speed
- The FDL has crap internals, and must decide between fuel scoops, SCBs that actually heal anything, and big shields, pick one.
- The FDL has a fairly large hitbox compared to the edge-on Python or even the Vulture.
- The FDL is horrible at the ramming meta, and can be wiped out by ships with much smaller shields
- The FDL is horrible at trading
- The FDL is mediocre at mining
- The FDL is possibly the worst exploration ship in the game
- The FDL doesn't have any good paint jobs
- The FDL doesn't have any ship kits
- The FDL won't do my taxes
The FDL isn't meant to ram, most ships have the odd side horizon problem, the one hard point won't fire because it has no line of sight. It isn't meant to trade, mine, explore, do your taxes, or anything but combat. I find that a class 4 gimbal pulse laser tracks pretty well above the waterline. High DPS builds don't worry about heat too much because most encounters are done before heating becomes a big problem (or you could stop firing for a few seconds). On the internals, you can pick two from your list, not one. The Vulture has more than its share of problems, and the Python often ends up not edge on in combat scenarios. Really, ship kits and paint jobs? who cares.
The FDL has its place, I fly one, and I like it a lot.
matter of opinion, but I find the gold and black paint jobs to be tacky.
I guess everyone is ignoring the 18 other items on that list? I mean, taxes are coming up in a couple months
Don`t know how you could find the stealth of the black tacky, gold fair enough. The FDL was never meant to be a versatile ship, the python wipes the floor with it on that front. Why choose I have them all and use it when I get the urge. When space legs lands I look forward to seeing its lavish interior, Jacuzzi included.
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Really? I can think of 19 drawbacks off the top of my head:
- The FDL has horrible hard point placement, it's strongest weapon is below it's horizon which you HAVE to be pointing directly at (or above??) your opponent to use the weapon. Which means the target is often below the horizon, and you are flying by sensors.
- The FDL also has a odd side-horizon problem where one of the outer medium hardpoints is very often failing to get a lock, and doesn't fire.
- The FDL turning rate is EXTREMELY pip dependent, which means that if you don't use low WEP drain guns, then you will be flying a spinning brick, and or getting EXTREMELY good at FA off aiming.
- The FDL has mostly low class weapon with low armor pen which means that against large and med ships, it's really doing 50% of stated DPS with those medium guns
- The FDL runs hot as hades unless you specially engineer EVERYTHING to run cool.
- The FDL is expensive to repair when it inevitably overheats with high DPS builds.
- The FDL can run fairly cool if engineered properly but at a huge cost to DPS.
- The FDL jump range maxes out at 20LY with herculean weight saving efforts, typical "high" results are more like 18 LY.
- The FDL cannot catch anyone who high wakes - some bounty hunting ship...
- The FDLl has low base armor and HEAVY upgraded bulkheads, so you either NEED huge shields or you'll have to accept lower agility/speed
- The FDL has crap internals, and must decide between fuel scoops, SCBs that actually heal anything, and big shields, pick one.
- The FDL has a fairly large hitbox compared to the edge-on Python or even the Vulture.
- The FDL is horrible at the ramming meta, and can be wiped out by ships with much smaller shields
- The FDL is horrible at trading
- The FDL is mediocre at mining
- The FDL is possibly the worst exploration ship in the game
- The FDL doesn't have any good paint jobs
- The FDL doesn't have any ship kits
- The FDL won't do my taxes
Pretty funny list you made there and some are simply wrong. You think the FDL has heat problems? Compared to what? And low armor, really? Then again take the letters FDL out and replace with almost any other ship name and your list would be true. The small fuel tank is really the only thing one can complain about once the FDL is fully G5'd.
You're missing the point on accepting all the positives that the FDL has - you know, the important things like speed, top shielding, maneuverability, power capability, utility slots, lower rebuy cost, low mass, good pitch\roll rates, reasonable MLF, etc. Yeah, big drawbacks indeed...
If you use any missiles or energy weapons with really high DPS in mind, you will see the heat is REAL, and it's a much bigger issue than other ships mentioned. If you aren't experiencing the heat, then you are probably using one of the prescribed low heat FDL builds. If you do any experimenting with various high DPS builds, then you might see what I am saying. Hit scan weapons like the Pulse Laser or the beam track pretty well. Other physical weapons, not so much. It also really depends on the heat of the target in question. The hotter they are, the bigger your arc and the better your tracking.
I was never suggesting that you intentionally ram the FDL. Silly rabbit. I was explaining that if you get rammed by someone else, you're screwed.
Pretty funny list you made there and some are simply wrong. You think the FDL has heat problems? Compared to what? And low armor, really? Then again take the letters FDL out and replace with almost any other ship name and your list would be true. The small fuel tank is really the only thing one can complain about once the FDL is fully G5'd.
You're missing the point on accepting all the positives that the FDL has - you know, the important things like speed, top shielding, maneuverability, power capability, utility slots, lower rebuy cost, low mass, good pitch\roll rates, reasonable MLF, etc. Yeah, big drawbacks indeed...
See above for heat issues. Compared to the Python, it has serious heat issues. The Python can be made to run cool with a single mod to the PP. The FDL requires you to mod all over the place to stay cool. And by cool I mean cool enough that you won't be a magnet for gimbal weapons. Which is well below the point where you are taking heat damage. Gimbal damage is much more deadly in any case. And if you are hot, you're going to get nailed from far away making your attempts to show a small hit box rather pointless.
Yes all combat ships have high shields and low armor. This is the general balance of the game. The OP was comparing the high shields of the FDL, but ignoring the equally high Armor of the other ships he was comparing it to. The Python can easily have 2 or 3 times the armor of the FDL. And after the next patch, it will have module protecting armor slots for unkillable drives, PP, and Weapons.
I am not missing the positives, I am responding to a challenge from some silly person who claimed that the FDL didn't have any downsides. Please read the context
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Really? I can think of 19 drawbacks off the top of my head:
- The FDL has horrible hard point placement, it's strongest weapon is below it's horizon which you HAVE to be pointing directly at (or above??) your opponent to use the weapon. Which means the target is often below the horizon, and you are flying by sensors.
- The FDL also has a odd side-horizon problem where one of the outer medium hardpoints is very often failing to get a lock, and doesn't fire.
- The FDL turning rate is EXTREMELY pip dependent, which means that if you don't use low WEP drain guns, then you will be flying a spinning brick, and or getting EXTREMELY good at FA off aiming.
- The FDL has mostly low class weapon with low armor pen which means that against large and med ships, it's really doing 50% of stated DPS with those medium guns
- The FDL runs hot as hades unless you specially engineer EVERYTHING to run cool.
- The FDL is expensive to repair when it inevitably overheats with high DPS builds.
- The FDL can run fairly cool if engineered properly but at a huge cost to DPS.
- The FDL jump range maxes out at 20LY with herculean weight saving efforts, typical "high" results are more like 18 LY.
- The FDL cannot catch anyone who high wakes - some bounty hunting ship...
- The FDLl has low base armor and HEAVY upgraded bulkheads, so you either NEED huge shields or you'll have to accept lower agility/speed
- The FDL has crap internals, and must decide between fuel scoops, SCBs that actually heal anything, and big shields, pick one.
- The FDL has a fairly large hitbox compared to the edge-on Python or even the Vulture.
- The FDL is horrible at the ramming meta, and can be wiped out by ships with much smaller shields
- The FDL is horrible at trading
- The FDL is mediocre at mining
- The FDL is possibly the worst exploration ship in the game
- The FDL doesn't have any good paint jobs
- The FDL doesn't have any ship kits
- The FDL won't do my taxes
Compared to old FDL?
HAHA, NO.
FDL is King bar non for ship killing.
Old FDL was a weapon of elegance.
New FDL is just brute force tool.
- - - Updated - - -
Except the math, math never lies.
But it can mislead.
#20: That insanely awful, offset cockpit view.
Seriously, Art Dept - it's bad. Really bad.
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I like the offset view and it is hardly noticeable.
I'm honestly curious as to WHY you like it.
- The other cockpit seat has no function, whatsoever. Even if it did, there's no downside to having the seats offset like a F14 Tomcat (front/rear).
- It's unlike the other "ladder" ships, that all have centered views. Thus, jumping in an FDL requires you become accustomed to this weird, pointless offset.
- This does, of course, affect your perception in aiming, true flight direction, etc.
- There's a window beam right in the way of your view.
So, I'm not saying you don't like it (some people like cauliflower). I'm just wondering why you do.
its a good ship (still), but i hate that look. Its look like an iron. Gunship and dropship have the same ugly look.
P.S.
How do you think, we get today a bodykit for python (or maybe something else)?
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You missed out:
3) wings
The final of Season 1 of the PvP League featured 8 FdL v 8 FAS (the FdL's won, across 2 rounds, 8-3, then 8-1).
The final of Season 2 of the PvP League featured 6 FdL v 6 FdL.
Go to a CG and you will see this:
(The Cutter is for mass inhibition.)
These deployments are considered choices made by player group wing leaders with unparalleled knowledge and experience of thousands of engagements. Aesthetics and hype are for the forums - victories are planned.
The reason for the FdL's is that victory in apex winged combat inevitably goes to the side that manages to remove the first two enemies (which is almost always the side that removes the first one enemy).
This is achieved via a shot-caller designating a target and the entire wing focusing that target down. However, because the other side is doing the same thing, it depends upon responsiveness, and, in particular on the ability of the focus target to evade fire and wing mates to peel attackers from him, then return to the original focus target.
Basically the side that is better at focusing fire and better at evading and breaking focus fire (and if necessary tanking focus fire), wins.
In this context, there is no deployment as simultaneously effective at all those things than massed Fer-de-Lances. Pythons for example don't come close because they take too long to achieve focus or peel a wing mate and cannot evade fire.
Quite simply, RNGineering squares the FdL's advantages and Wings then cubes them.
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As i wrote before, in wing fight base shield and speed is more important than scb/tanking because:
1. focus fire, there is no so fast scb to resist focused fire. Thats why in 1 and 2 leagues there was almost only FDL's.
Python was useless, because it was slow flying brick, with weak base shield in a confrontation of focused FDL wing.
Some people used silent FAS'es, but this also was a matter of discussion, what was better - silent FAS or silent FDL. I prefered silent FDL because of 6U.
However, its past, rules are changed now.
2. feedback cascade. IF someone will miss in 1vs1, and some other manage him to miss somehow, then in wing battle entire wing will not miss, so SCB are almost pointless.
In wings fight FDL is the king from medium ships. However even a wing of FDL can't masslock anything, thats why there is also a cutter.
There is no need to change FDL, there should just be other similar ships to make game more diverse.
From one hand its good a SCB tanking is not effective, because it was a cancer. In other hand, large ships should be more resistant to focused fire and feedback. Maybe they just need a bigger base shields.
1. focus fire, there is no so fast scb to resist focused fire. Thats why in 1 and 2 leagues there was almost only FDL's.
Python was useless, because it was slow flying brick, with weak base shield in a confrontation of focused FDL wing.
Some people used silent FAS'es, but this also was a matter of discussion, what was better - silent FAS or silent FDL. I prefered silent FDL because of 6U.
However, its past, rules are changed now.
2. feedback cascade. IF someone will miss in 1vs1, and some other manage him to miss somehow, then in wing battle entire wing will not miss, so SCB are almost pointless.
In wings fight FDL is the king from medium ships. However even a wing of FDL can't masslock anything, thats why there is also a cutter.
There is no need to change FDL, there should just be other similar ships to make game more diverse.
From one hand its good a SCB tanking is not effective, because it was a cancer. In other hand, large ships should be more resistant to focused fire and feedback. Maybe they just need a bigger base shields.
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Current situation in PvP is, once your shield are down -> you are dead! So "shields" are the secret buff king here. And shield strength is heavily depending on the utility slots especially with engineered booster! That's why the gap between FdL (and Anaconda, Cutter, Corvette) to all other ships is so huge! I don't think that Frontier will add some utility slots (probably too complicated) to all other fighter ships. But with the new idea to protect modules better, seems they will buff the situation once you don't have shields anymore. This could bring some balance into the game - or even make the the big 4 (FdL, Cutter, Corvette, Anaconda) more invincible!
Oh I get it, I really do. But if you read the OP, PVP was the last item on his list. And unfortunately, that's is where it belongs. The game is almost entirely PVE. I have learned to live with that sad fact. But yes, you're right, for PVP you want the apex skirmisher-predator, the best combat ship, the one that can hit hard, take a punch, deliver the goods when and where you need it, give chase, run if needed, and not break the bank if you die. Enter the FDL. For all other purposes it's just a slightly better combat than anything else in its size class. Is better than the Anaconda at killing NPCs? Um no. Not really. Not at all. So it's not the apex PVE predator even. But yeah for PVP it hits the sweet spot. Not by huge margins (certainly NOT "cubed", not even "squared", not by a long shot) but just enough to make flying anything else put you at a competitive disadvantage. And that's OK because it's a specialist single purpose ship.
There are sure to be others that will be introduced at a later date that will either dethrone it or challenge it. Maybe even the FAS/Python once 2.2.03 comes out.
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In PvP FDL have an advantage by additional 2U, but in PvE a Python is better with everything because NPC are not using feedback cascade
OK folks - there is written FDL have 2-3 times greater base shield than any other ship.
FDL
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...fD0LxQygBCCUIoYQglLCoDT+Q+s9AFQAAGgSAengAAAA=
3,3GJ
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/pyt...Vf+PKwPCfD0LxQygBCCUoasMPpP4zkAwAlsOR41YAAAA=
Python
2.2GJ
Well... it rather sound like 130% (1,3x larger).
If we turn off 1 booster then FDL will get a more advantage. it will be 2900 vs 1800.
Its not a 200-300% difference then... rather than 160% (1,6x larger)
To compensate it Python need 3 shots from 6A SCB with 10-15 tries (and heatsink, its a disadvantage)
I expected something like 115%, rather something around 500MJ, not 1GJ+, but it is still not 300%.
The shield in FDL is not twice or three times greater, but in fact it is 30-60% greater.
And works as intended. FDL is dedicated combat ship PvP only, python is multirole.
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